MQA is Vaporware

[mansr]

8 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Kind of funny. Even the labels have rejected using MQA as a master because it isn’t lossless. Yet, MQA and Tidal push “Tidal Masters” hard. I guess we shouldn’t be surprised. 

MQA is clearly a distribution format only, just as JPEG is for images.

[Thuaveta]

10 hours ago, new_media said:

Are you sure you’re not a paid social media consultant?

 

One'd have to be extraordinarily dumb, or desperate, to pay someone with those powers of persuasion as a social media consultant, don't you think ?

[Samuel T Cogley]

Scoggins turned a lot of people off to Shunyata products by his relentless shilling.  But somehow, he thinks he's helping.  I honestly don't get it.  MQA is now getting Scoggins' Shunyata treatment.  And I can't say that it's helping MQA.

[Shadders]

Hi,

Despite every piece of evidence/proof presented to Lee Scoggins, he keeps on promoting MQA.

 

This reminds me of the persistent salesman from the 1980's, selling a pile of crap, but keeps on trying to hook the customer. Relentless. They will say anything to get the sale, regardless whether the technical people told him, what he was saying would not work.

 

Trying to reason, or argue with such people is pointless. They will still repeat the same statements regardless of whether they believe the proof/evidence presented to them or not.

 

At this stage now, he can never admit he was wrong, despite that he may want to.

 

Regards,

Shadders.

[gdpr]

We should be gratefull to Lee Scoggings to provide ample opportunities to keep this forum alive and kicking (as.)

Dirk

[John Dyson]

1 hour ago, Shadders said:

Hi,

Despite every piece of evidence/proof presented to Lee Scoggins, he keeps on promoting MQA.

 

This reminds me of the persistent salesman from the 1980's, selling a pile of crap, but keeps on trying to hook the customer. Relentless. They will say anything to get the sale, regardless whether the technical people told him, what he was saying would not work.

 

Trying to reason, or argue with such people is pointless. They will still repeat the same statements regardless of whether they believe the proof/evidence presented to them or not.

 

At this stage now, he can never admit he was wrong, despite that he may want to.

 

Regards,

Shadders.

So many times in the past -- I have had to rescind a claim or simply accept the fact that I am wrong.  It shouldnt' be a matter of ego, but simply an acceptance of reality.  The only thing that really bothers me is that the snake-oil just might hook a few people in the meantime.

 

On the other hand about making a false or erroneous claim -- someone has to step out and innovate, and sometimes the innovations are bogus or problematical.  The frustrating thing in this case is that the mistaken claim hasn't been accepted as a mistake by the originator.

 

John

 

[mav52]

5 hours ago, firedog said:

Because marketing people will say anything. Truth or accuracy have nothing to do with it. Newspeak.

That's for sure, anything for a SALE

[The Computer Audiophile]

4 minutes ago, John Dyson said:

So many times in the past -- I have had to rescind a claim or simply accept the fact that I am wrong.  It shouldnt' be a matter of ego, but simply an acceptance of reality.  The only thing that really bothers me is that the snake-oil just might hook a few people in the meantime.

 

On the other hand about making a false or erroneous claim -- someone has to step out and innovate, and sometimes the innovations are bogus or problematical.  The frustrating thing in this case is that the mistaken claim hasn't been accepted as a mistake by the originator.

 

John

 

So true John. It can take guts to admit one is wrong, especially after pushing so hard in the opposite direction for so long. Doubling down on mistakes is such a short term strategy that backfires twice as big in the long run. The longer the old guard sticks to its guns about MQA being the second coming of digital audio, the bigger whole they are digging for themselves. 

 

Plus, it's always nice to read when someone honestly admits mistakes and shows a little bit of a human side. 

[mansr]

3 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

So true John. It can take guts to admit one is wrong, especially after pushing so hard in the opposite direction for so long. Doubling down on mistakes is such a short term strategy that backfires twice as big in the long run. The longer the old guard sticks to its guns about MQA being the second coming of digital audio, the bigger whole they are digging for themselves. 

 

Plus, it's always nice to read when someone honestly admits mistakes and shows a little bit of a human side. 

It's much easier to admit a mistake if you avoid making grandiose claims without any real evidence. Instead of "it's the birth of a new world," they should have said "here's an audio processing tool that looks interesting."

[Jud]

2 minutes ago, mansr said:

It's much easier to admit a mistake if you avoid making grandiose claims without any real evidence. Instead of "it's the birth of a new world," they should have said "here's an audio processing tool that looks interesting."

 

If for "interesting" one reads "applies lossy compression to the result of bad filtering, if you're interested in that sort of thing."

[mansr]

1 minute ago, Jud said:

If for "interesting" one reads "applies lossy compression to the result of bad filtering, if you're interested in that sort of thing."

We didn't know those things then. The initial presentation of MQA made it sound like something that might be interesting. Of course, the bombastic tone should have been a warning sign from the start, and it ultimately turned out to be worth nothing. Still, I'd forgive the press for reporting on Stuart's claims, had they then followed up with some actual investigation, or at least taken note when others did that investigation for them. Paul Miller and Doug Schneider did this. The rest are a disgrace.

[Jud]

3 minutes ago, mansr said:

had they then followed up with some actual investigation, or at least taken note when others did that investigation for them

 

This.  This is what a functioning press worthy of the name does.

[Hugo9000]

The appearance is that someone was told he'd have a year before having to step down, as a way of exiting with dignity.  Such is extremely common with small business acquisitions, particularly where the acquired company/entity was headed by someone well-known and liked/admired.  It eases things for the loyal customer base.  As an alternative, he could finally be ashamed at dragging that magazine down with this insistence that MQA is in any way legitimate.  The timing makes the first seem more likely, given the position of the 'new' boss.

[Shadders]

1 hour ago, John Dyson said:

So many times in the past -- I have had to rescind a claim or simply accept the fact that I am wrong

You're not very good then..... 😀

 

Just kidding.

It reminds me of an advert from many years ago - Maureen Lipman :

ML : Do you have the dress in blue ?

Salesman : Yes

ML : Do you have the dress in red ?

Salesman : Yes

ML : Do you have the dress in size 12 ?

Salesman : Yes

ML : Do you have the dress in size 14 ?

Salesman : Yes, yes, yes, we have all the dresses in all the colours, and in all the sizes.

ML : They're not selling very well are they......

[Thuaveta]

20 minutes ago, Hugo9000 said:

The appearance is that someone was told he'd have a year before having to step down, as a way of exiting with dignity.  Such is extremely common with small business acquisitions, particularly where the acquired company/entity was headed by someone well-known and liked/admired.  It eases things for the loyal customer base.  As an alternative, he could finally be ashamed at dragging that magazine down with this insistence that MQA is in any way legitimate.  The timing makes the first seem more likely, given the position of the 'new' boss.

 

I'd be surprised if it was linked to MQA. Finances, old age, maybe. MQA ? Nah. Plus Austin hasn't shown better journalistic ability, which in the case of MQA, becomes rather ominous given his distinguished scientific credentials.

 

It's all fine, as long as they either don't pretend to be journalists or investigative journalists, or, which is much more unlikely, if they start acting like ones (the language ("subjectivist audio journal", "more engaging, more relevant, more entertaining") in the passing-of-the-golden-dong piece makes it clear to me there's no intention of that).

[Paul R]

3 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

Scoggins turned a lot of people off to Shunyata products by his relentless shilling.  But somehow, he thinks he's helping.  I honestly don't get it.  MQA is now getting Scoggins' Shunyata treatment.  And I can't say that it's helping MQA.

 

If this is so, then why for heaven’s sake are you guys complaining?

 

 Just could not resist pulling your leg a teeny little bit there...

[firedog]

1 hour ago, mansr said:

It's much easier to admit a mistake if you avoid making grandiose claims without any real evidence. Instead of "it's the birth of a new world," they should have said "here's an audio processing tool that looks interesting."

Yes. First, they never should have called it lossless. If they had simply said,  “we have this great new compression algorithm that sounds almost the same as lossless hi-res, and we have proprietary filters that we think often make our slightly lossy files sound better than actual hi-res” - then the only discussions we would have had about it are arguments over whether specific tracks/albums in MQA sound better or not.

And there probably would have been much less resistance to the “ecosystem” aspect. 
 

But once it became obvious they’d lied about all sorts of things, the jig was up.

[Hugo9000]

3 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

Scoggins turned a lot of people off to Shunyata products by his relentless shilling.  But somehow, he thinks he's helping.  I honestly don't get it.  MQA is now getting Scoggins' Shunyata treatment.  And I can't say that it's helping MQA.

He's actually an Anti-MQA mole.  But he's playing the long game, unlike that guy who pretended to like MQA for a day or two and then did a big "shoot-out" to find to his horror that MQA was awful! hahaha!

 

He is also a double agent WRT Shunyata--the principals at the company think he is their biggest advocate and adore him, while their enemies know that his over-the-top antics and general lack of credibility on audio forums results in lower sales for the company than if they had no shills at all.

 

His other side job is probably working for the CIA*.  Or Homeland Security.  I'm sure he's just as effective in that role.

 

 

*Idle speculation and attempted humor, I have no inside information, honestly!  If I stumbled on the truth, please don't add me to a hit list, whatever secret agency is monitoring these threads!

 

 

[Shadders]

2 minutes ago, firedog said:

then the only discussions we would have had about it are arguments over whether specific tracks/albums in MQA sound better or not.

Hi,

Come on, it is so much worse than that.

 

MQA purported to be lossless high resolution letting you hear what the artist intended.What we got was a lossy compression, and the filters you use are forced upon you, where those filters cause blur, and the entire system design causes aliasing.

 

How on earth could that EVER be considered "A New World Order" or even high resolution ???

 

Everything about MQA goes in the opposite direction to what High Resolution is about.

 

Regards,

Shadders.

[Paul R]

2 hours ago, John Dyson said:

So many times in the past -- I have had to rescind a claim or simply accept the fact that I am wrong.  It shouldnt' be a matter of ego, but simply an acceptance of reality.  The only thing that really bothers me is that the snake-oil just might hook a few people in the meantime.

 

On the other hand about making a false or erroneous claim -- someone has to step out and innovate, and sometimes the innovations are bogus or problematical.  The frustrating thing in this case is that the mistaken claim hasn't been accepted as a mistake by the originator.

 

John

 

 

Lots of fire leveled at MQA, but what about the real shills selling it?   Perhaps the reasons have to do with some folks secretly (or not so secretly) listening to MQA on Tidal? (grin)

 

Okay okay, I know, low blow. But the actual question is, why is there not more pressure on Tidal to stop supporting the product that is supposedly so universally hated? 

 

[Shadders]

Hi,

I don't think Tidal can be challenged for selling what it wants. Free world and all that etc.

 

What i would disagree with is the "..MQA to deliver something infinitely better", and "...highest possible resolution...."

 

Neither can it ever be infinitely better (at best 48dB better), nor highest possible resolution - there are 32bit DAC's available - not sure if there are 32bit recordings available.

 

Regards,

Shadders.

[Samuel T Cogley]

37 minutes ago, Paul R said:

 

If this is so, then why for heaven’s sake are you guys complaining?

 

 Just could not resist pulling your leg a teeny little bit there...

 

Hi Paul

 

Scoggins is using this forum as some kind of digital graffiti wall.  His disingenuousness and unwillingness to present any information apart from MQA marketing fluff is pretty obnoxious.

 

For the record, I gave up my Tidal subscription when Qobuz became available in the U.S.  Hopefully, Tidal will go out of business and take MQA with it.

[mansr]

6 minutes ago, Shadders said:

there are 32bit DAC's available - not sure if there are 32bit recordings available.

Too bad there's no 32-bit physics available.

[Rt66indierock]

1 hour ago, Thuaveta said:

 

I'd be surprised if it was linked to MQA. Finances, old age, maybe. MQA ? Nah. Plus Austin hasn't shown better journalistic ability, which in the case of MQA, becomes rather ominous given his distinguished scientific credentials.

 

It's all fine, as long as they either don't pretend to be journalists or investigative journalists, or, which is much more unlikely, if they start acting like ones (the language ("subjectivist audio journal", "more engaging, more relevant, more entertaining") in the passing-of-the-golden-dong piece makes it clear to me there's no intention of that).

 

I'm thinking this may have more to with reaching 70 1/2. A day in the United States where a tax concept called Required Minimum Distributions from pensions kicks in. 

[Paul R]

25 minutes ago, Hugo9000 said:

 

*Idle speculation and attempted humor, I have no inside information, honestly!  If I stumbled on the truth, please don't add me to a hit list, whatever secret agency is monitoring these threads!

 

How did you learn that MQA has joined the ranks of certain other three letter agencies?  Well, no matter. MQA secretly encodes mind control frequencies, and you will soon not remember this... listen to this nice Tital Track...   Mwwahhh haaa haaa!!!.... 🤯.

 

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