A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[MNG]

4 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

From whatever power supply is powering it, sure.  But it’s output is a clean clock signal, and ALL that matters from a clock is jitter/phase-noise.  (Well, proper impedance termination will be important too—to preserve, again, low phase-noise/jitter.)

 

Thanks for your posts, although I’m still confused - easily done with this stuff for me. It seems that phase noise and jitter are essentially the same thing, just different ways of expressing against either time or frequency. Is there a tangible difference at all - t seems not - or could it simply be that the term ‘phase noise’ is being used instead of jitter in relation to these Master Clocks as a marketing angle rather than anything else? Certainly, it plays better with our focus in recent times on removing ‘noise’ of various persuasions from our systems and is likely more effective in a marketing sense than the term ‘jitter’ which many modern DAC’s claim to control very well and ‘noise’ is a much easier word to relate to than jitter for most people.

[Ben2300]

4 hours ago, MNG said:

 

Thanks for your posts, although I’m still confused - easily done with this stuff for me. It seems that phase noise and jitter are essentially the same thing, just different ways of expressing against either time or frequency. Is there a tangible difference at all - t seems not - or could it simply be that the term ‘phase noise’ is being used instead of jitter in relation to these Master Clocks as a marketing angle rather than anything else? Certainly, it plays better with our focus in recent times on removing ‘noise’ of various persuasions from our systems and is likely more effective in a marketing sense than the term ‘jitter’ which many modern DAC’s claim to control very well and ‘noise’ is a much easier word to relate to than jitter for most people.

Yes, they are the same thing, just represent differently. Phase noise is measure in frequency domain often found in chip involve in frequency measure , while jitter is measure in time domain often found in dac/adc chip measure. And I remember there is way to covert those 2 measurements as well.

[Johnseye]

10 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

From whatever power supply is powering it, sure.  But it’s output is a clean clock signal, and ALL that matters from a clock is jitter/phase-noise.  (Well, proper impedance termination will be important too—to preserve, again, low phase-noise/jitter.)

 

The power contributes to phase noise, does it not?

[afrancois]

30 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

The power contributes to phase noise, does it not?

I clearly hear the difference when I power the Pulsar clock in my DAC separately with a LPS--1

[LTG2010]

54 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

The power contributes to phase noise, does it not?

Yes especially switching supplies. Spikes/ peaks, poor voltage regulators induce deterministic jitter (and therefore phase noise) as does EMI / RFI. Also there is crosstalk- induced current from adjacent conductors, the increase and decrease causes jitter. There is also random jitter (from less obvious sources) eg. overheating of components and non uniformity.

So the specification of a crystal is not the only factor.

[Johnseye]

20 minutes ago, afrancois said:

I clearly hear the difference when I power the Pulsar clock in my DAC separately with a LPS--1

 

1 minute ago, LTG2010 said:

Yes especially switching supplies. Spikes/ peaks, poor voltage regulators induce deterministic jitter (and therefore phase noise) as does EMI / RFI. Also there is crosstalk- induced current from adjacent conductors, the increase and decrease causes jitter. There is also random jitter (from less obvious sources) eg. overheating of components and non uniformity.

So the specification of a crystal is not the only factor.

 

And so it isn't just the phase noise of the clock we should be concerned with, although that is a contributing factor.  Power, length of runs, EMI/RF if not more, contribute.

 

Just making this clear so we all don't get hung up on low clock phase noise.  Clock manufacturers will also influence their numbers by conducting their phase noise tests in an environment that may be different from that which the clock is used.  They may use specifically designed power supplies or use Faraday cages when determining these numbers.

 

Only by testing phase noise in an identical environment in which it's used will result in an accurate measurement.

[afrancois]

1 hour ago, Johnseye said:

 

 

And so it isn't just the phase noise of the clock we should be concerned with, although that is a contributing factor.  Power, length of runs, EMI/RF if not more, contribute.

 

Just making this clear so we all don't get hung up on low clock phase noise.  Clock manufacturers will also influence their numbers by conducting their phase noise tests in an environment that may be different from that which the clock is used.  They may use specifically designed power supplies or use Faraday cages when determining these numbers.

 

Only by testing phase noise in an identical environment in which it's used will result in an accurate measurement.

That's right, the Pulsar clock in my DAC is in close proximity to an EMI/RFI emitting processor used for RoomPerfect. This processor now has a complete cage around it consisting of mu-metal and 3M EMI sheets. Airbourne EMI/RFI has a profound effect on a clock! Super clean power is essential for the performance of a clock. It's no coincidence that a big part of the work that went into building the Mutec REF10 was the linear power supply. 

[tapatrick]

16 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

I would love to get something from http://www.pulsarclock.com myself if I were looking for a word clock, its compatibility with DIL14 clock sockets should be fantastic for stuff like Vanity203 HD or Ian Jin's McFIFO + McDualXO etc. 

Yes Im considering a pulsar for 44.1 frequency down the road when I’m clearer how they fit with Ian’s boards....  hoping some one can verify what they add to the mix over the Crysteks. 

[michaeltay5871]

Like to share an observation after the addition of a Sotm master-clock to the sCLK-EX inside a dX-USB HD clocking both the Sms 200 and Switch.  I have an Iso-Regen before the dX-USB and I try removing the Iso-Regen to compare with and without it in the chain.  All components powered by LPS 1.  Before the intoduction of the master-clock the sound was definitely better with  the Iso-Regen in the chain.

 

After the introduction of the master-clock and with the Iso-Regen removed the music sounded clearer with greater details and better timing but lost some body and maybe a wee bit control to it.  So its not really a totally one-sided situation but I must say undoubtedly that the master clock is one of the best upgrade to my system. 

 

Now I have a dilemma of whether to remove the Iso-Regen.

 

[Johnseye]

7 minutes ago, michaeltay5871 said:

Like to share an observation after the addition of a Sotm master-clock to the sCLK-EX inside a dX-USB HD clocking both the Sms 200 and Switch.  I have an Iso-Regen before the dX-USB and I try removing the Iso-Regen to compare with and without it in the chain.  All components powered by LPS 1.  Before the intoduction of the master-clock the sound was definitely better with  the Iso-Regen in the chain.

 

After the introduction of the master-clock and with the Iso-Regen removed the music sounded clearer with greater details and better timing but lost some body and maybe a wee bit control to it.  So its not really a totally one-sided situation but I must say undoubtedly that the master clock is one of the best upgrade to my system. 

 

Now I have a dilemma of whether to remove the Iso-Regen.

 

 

From what others are saying you'll need a few weeks of burn in for the sCLK-OCX10 to settle.  I suspect you'll get the body back and more.

[RickyV]

4 hours ago, michaeltay5871 said:

Like to share an observation after the addition of a Sotm master-clock to the sCLK-EX inside a dX-USB HD clocking both the Sms 200 and Switch.  I have an Iso-Regen before the dX-USB and I try removing the Iso-Regen to compare with and without it in the chain.  All components powered by LPS 1.  Before the intoduction of the master-clock the sound was definitely better with  the Iso-Regen in the chain.

 

After the introduction of the master-clock and with the Iso-Regen removed the music sounded clearer with greater details and better timing but lost some body and maybe a wee bit control to it.  So its not really a totally one-sided situation but I must say undoubtedly that the master clock is one of the best upgrade to my system. 

 

Now I have a dilemma of whether to remove the Iso-Regen.

 

I think with the introduction of the master clock in your system the sq got to good for the ISO regen. So remove it if its degrading sound.

[RickyV]

I think i have been holding my system back. 

In the last year i have playing around with  my server upgrading from an asus laptop to a asrock board, still powered by the hdplex 250w hifi dc-atx power supply and a sigma 11 supply. So then i got tidal and started modifining the network hardware. Switch first than modem/router supply and finally the mobo network NIC clock. Oh yes, and the iso regen clock.

What i did not do was upgrade my usb Cable. So i was listening via my Techpoint usb cable, i do not know where i got it and costes probably 99 cents. From my jcat femto usb to the modded iso regen and uspcb to my meitner. So 3 weeks ago i bought a 75 cm lush cable from Phasure, my fellow country man. I started listening and was i bit shocked, not with SQ goodness but just not good unbellenced sound. It took about 60 hours of burning in for it to get pleasurable, and now i untherstand what the fuzz is about. Unlocking a lot of SQ, it is like it is all landing on its feet (Digitally). Just a really nice image and detail etc.

Top Tip of the week: do not listen to a lush cable for the first 60 hours. No don’t  do it. Happy cat purring on the sofa here. 

[michaeltay5871]

16 minutes ago, RickyV said:

started modifining the network hardware. Switch first than modem/router supply and finally the mobo network NIC clock. Oh yes, and the iso regen clock.

Agreed with you regarding the Lush Cable.  I am also using one.  Curious how you mod the iso regen clock. By sCLK-EX? Done by Sotm?

[RickyV]

No by neutron star 2 clock, done by me. 

The only thing I modded on the ISO regen. 

[michaeltay5871]

Wow that looks imposing compared to the IR.  Does it replace all the clocks in the IR?  Can it be easily done?  Also wonders how it will compare with the Sotm mod.

[Superdad]

31 minutes ago, michaeltay5871 said:

Wow that looks imposing compared to the IR.  Does it replace all the clocks in the IR?  Can it be easily done?

 

There is only one clock in the ISO REGEN, a Crystek CCHD-575.  Things are very tight on the board, so I bet it was not an easy job!

[Superdad]

1 hour ago, RickyV said:

Top Tip of the week: do not listen to a lush cable for the first 60 hours. No don’t  do it.

 

He is not kidding!  And whatever you do, don't play anything with piano through it for probably 100 hours.  Until that point the Lush made a grand piano sound like a badly tuned old upright bar piano!    It is a weird cable, but I really enjoy it now.

[str-1]

Just to mention for Innuos Zenith SE owners, a recent upgrade to iPeng now links its volume control to that of tne iPad’s.  It didn’t occur to me to check the iPeng volume setting (I didn’t afterall conciously change it) when after a few days of playing my system non-stop (without listening) to help run-in the Clearer Audio BNC cables I have for the Chord Blu 2/DAVE I noticed a marked drop in volume, and mentioned this to Innuos.  Nuno clarified what the problem was and said they are looking into it, but advice for the moment is to keep an eye on the iPeng volume setting to ensure it stays at 100% for bit-perfect playback.

[austinpop]

Quick heads up - there's a good chance I will list my OP-14 for sale sometime soon. If you have an interest, drop me a PM.

[auricgoldfinger]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

Quick heads up - there's a good chance I will list my OP-14 for sale sometime soon. If you have an interest, drop me a PM.

 

I hope you won't be making any final decisions until the conclusion our REF 10/OCX10 shoot out. 

 

 

[mozes]

2 hours ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

I hope you won't be making any final decisions until the conclusion our REF 10/OCX10 shoot out. 

 

 

Who’s planning to do this test?

[auricgoldfinger]

21 minutes ago, mozes said:

Who’s planning to do this test?

 

@austinpop @limniscate and me.

[mozes]

6 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

@austinpop @limniscate and me.

Great stuff, this will be interesting.

[Johnseye]

On 3/9/2018 at 6:18 PM, auricgoldfinger said:

 

For me, the $64,000 question is how my sCLK-OCX10 (with upgraded Evox capacitors and eABS-200 EMF paper) powered by a Paul Hynes SR5DRXL compares to the REF10 with its slightly lower phase noise at 10Hz and a lesser internal power supply.

 

Looking forward to your listening session. My understanding is that the Ref 10s LPSU was designed for the Ref 10. I don't know how or what that means exactly other than it was optimized as a pair. EMF adhesive shielding can be applied anywhere, including the Ref 10. 

[auricgoldfinger]

27 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

Looking forward to your listening session. My understanding is that the Ref 10s LPSU was designed for the Ref 10. I don't know how or what that means exactly other than it was optimized as a pair. EMF adhesive shielding can be applied anywhere, including the Ref 10. 

 

Unfortunately, we won't have the SR5DRXL for this comparison since it probably won't arrive until late summer.  We'll have an sPS-500, an SR4, and hopefully, an LPS-1.2 to try with the OCX10.