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A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming


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Most important: please realize this thread is about bleeding edge experimentation and discovery. No one has The Answer™. If you are not into tweaking, just know that you can have a musically satisfying system without doing any of the nutty things we do here.

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5 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

Unfortunately, we won't have the SR5DRXL for this comparison since it probably won't arrive until late summer.  We'll have an sPS-500, an SR4, and hopefully, an LPS-1.2 to try with the OCX10.

Will you be able to test OCX10 with JS-2 as well?  I switched from sPS-500 to JS-2 and liked the result, and I wonder whether this is just an isolated case.

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I spent the weekend "upgrading" with a coincidental Saturday afternoon Fedex delivery from both SOTM and Schiit.

 

I was impressed that the sMS-200ultra Special Edition was almost a straight unplug/replug for the UltraRendu, and similarly the tX-USBultra regenerator was nearly a straight unplug/replug from the IsoRegen, aside from my needing to find my second Uptone JS-2 cable to feed a second 12v signal to the Tx-USB (alongside the Mac Mini's 12v needs).  I left the IsoRegen and LPS-1 out for now.  I also did not drop the SOTM-modified switch in yet (more on that in a second post, but partly because I only have the wall wart while I wait for the Uptone LPS 1.2 to arrive).

 

The Mac/MMK/Roon/HQPlayer server found the sMS-200ultra bridged immediately, and the first-gen Yggy also fired right up being fed from the tX-USB.  Perhaps I shouldn't have been surprised, but I was.  I had to use the SOTM-supplied usb, and chose to put it between the two SOTM products (rather than try to face them back-to-back to use my Uptone USPCB A>B Adapter that I've become fond of).  I put the Sablon USB as the last one between the tx- and the Yggy, per some recommendations I think I'd read earlier in this thread.

 

I listened for about 3 hours this way.  Everything was a little bigger, a little more detailed, but I did notice some little pacing issues that I often hear in the first 12-24 hours of a factory-fresh source component.  A few songs I know quite well just sounded a bit slow and off, even though their tone, clarity and soundstage were magnificent.

 

I had an event last night, so before I left, I quickly dropped in the new SOTM Cat7 between the Mac Mini and sMS-200ultra to let it run in overnight.  I didn't listen to it at all as I was in a hurry, so I don't know how it sounded cold or what it added/subtracted at this point.

 

This morning the pacing issues were gone, and by this afternoon's 24 hour mark I can say I was quite pleased with the purchases--as they sit, they are an obvious upgrade over the UltraRendu/IsoRegen combo I've had for the last year or so since they both came out.  I haven't pulled out the SOTM Cat7 to see how much improvement that brought by itself...going to let it get some more days on it like this I think.

 

The new Yggy DAC with the Analog 2 stage went in late afternoon, just to hear it cold and get it plugged in to start the burn-in.  I expected to go backwards SQ-wise (my current Yggy has the USB5 upgrade, but not the Analog 2), but darn it if it didn't sound great right from the start, even cold.  I'm interested to see if it goes backwards over the next couple of days...I remember some rough spots in the first week of my other Yggy.  I was a little surprised to not hear any pacing issues that I expected in hour 1...I don't know if they received any burn-in at the factory?

 

I need some advice on the new switch...will post that question next.

 

But before I do that, thanks to all the contributors on this thread--I made all those purchases from feedback you all have given on your own experiences.

 

Jay

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I bought a SOTM modified switch, and hope to put it in the system shortly for some experimentations.  I don't have a linear power supply for it yet (Uptone LPS-1.2 ordered a few weeks ago), so I only have the wall-wart to start.

 

Rather than try to explain my current chain in words, I tried to draw it out to include here in hopes of that helping.  For the next 8 weeks I'll be in this house, and at that point I'm moving to what I hope will be an improved network situation (we are remodeling a house that we hope to move into by June, where I'll have a bigger dedicated listening room and improved whole-house networking, with some dedicated Cat7 and 20amp power runs for the server/listening room).

 

My current hardwired network goes through 3 switches to get to the upstairs listening room.  There is probably a lot of noise generated in that path, which I believe really only impacts my Tidal usage (which is significant) since I store the owned-files on a USB-drive hanging off of the MacMini server (this might be able to be improved, I realize).

 

Kinneytuck Audio Chain v1.pdf

 

My questions are as follows, and I'd love feedback based on your own experience:

 

  1. Should I replace the last switch in the basement with the SOTM switch, without benefiting from the clock connection to the sMS-200Ultra?  That seems only marginally beneficial, if any, and only once I have a linear power supply?
  2. Should I add the SOTM switch as a 4th switch in the chain, in the listening room, obviously connecting it to the clock in the sMS-200Ultra, and hang the bridged MacMini/sMS-200Ultra off of that?
  3. Should I do #2 above, but no longer bridge the MacMini/sMS-200Ultra, and instead also hang the sMS-200Ultra off of the SOTM switch too?
  4. In either #2 or #3 above, am I going to get benefit from getting a second SOTM Cat7?

All thoughts appreciated before I start tearing apart the house network, or ordering expensive Cat7s.

 

thanks, Jay

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Hi Jay, 

 

Good work over the weekend. Sounds like you've had some fun and completely revamped your system. 

 

It's also a good question and not one I'm sure I can answer 100%. Perhaps the more knowledgeable can chime in but here's my take. 

 

I think it largely depends on how much noise your Mac Mini is contributing or not. I'd play around and listen to having the modded switch upstream of the Mac Mini (essentially your #2) and also try it between the Mac Mini and the SMS-200ultra. 

 

I suspect the latter will sound better as theoretically both locally stored files and Tidal pass through the switch and benefit from reclocking. 

 

Also I don't know but suspect you lose the bridging if you are passing it through a switch. 

 

Am open to being corrected on any of the above by the wiser souls on this forum. 

 

Cheers, 

Alan 

Synergistic Research Powercell UEF SE > Sonore OpticalModule (LPS-1.2 & DXP-1A5DSC) > EtherRegen (SR4T & DXP-1A5DSC) > (Sablon 2020 LAN) Innuos PhoenixNet > Muon Streaming System > Grimm Audio MU1 server > (Sablon AES) Mola Mola Tambaqui DAC > PS Audio M1200 monoblocks > Salk Sound Supercharged Songtowers

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9 hours ago, jay said:

My questions are as follows, and I'd love feedback based on your own experience:

 

  1. Should I replace the last switch in the basement with the SOTM switch, without benefiting from the clock connection to the sMS-200Ultra?  That seems only marginally beneficial, if any, and only once I have a linear power supply?
  2. Should I add the SOTM switch as a 4th switch in the chain, in the listening room, obviously connecting it to the clock in the sMS-200Ultra, and hang the bridged MacMini/sMS-200Ultra off of that?
  3. Should I do #2 above, but no longer bridge the MacMini/sMS-200Ultra, and instead also hang the sMS-200Ultra off of the SOTM switch too?
  4. In either #2 or #3 above, am I going to get benefit from getting a second SOTM Cat7?

All thoughts appreciated before I start tearing apart the house network, or ordering expensive Cat7s.

 

thanks, Jay

 

I can't speak to the bridging question since I have no experience with it.

 

My suggestion is MacMini > generic Cat7 > SOtM switch > SOtM Cat7 > sMS-Ultra > tX-USBultra. 

 

The generic Cat7 cable between the MacMini and SOtM switch could be something like this one:

 

http://ghentaudio.com/part/et01.html

 

Just curious...have you tried the Gutwire on your DAC?

 

 

 

 

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11 hours ago, jay said:

My questions are as follows, and I'd love feedback based on your own experience:

 

  1. Should I replace the last switch in the basement with the SOTM switch, without benefiting from the clock connection to the sMS-200Ultra?  That seems only marginally beneficial, if any, and only once I have a linear power supply?
  2. Should I add the SOTM switch as a 4th switch in the chain, in the listening room, obviously connecting it to the clock in the sMS-200Ultra, and hang the bridged MacMini/sMS-200Ultra off of that?
  3. Should I do #2 above, but no longer bridge the MacMini/sMS-200Ultra, and instead also hang the sMS-200Ultra off of the SOTM switch too?
  4. In either #2 or #3 above, am I going to get benefit from getting a second SOTM Cat7?

 

Jay,

 

In my experience, the following is what I would recommend for best SQ. I think this corresponds to #2 on your list - I think.

  • Continue to bridge your Mac Mini, as shown
  • Place your modded switch in the path from the Mac Mini to the sMS-200ultra, i.e.
    • Connect your existing cable, from Mac Mini to the sMS-200ultra, to a port on the switch instead
    • connect another cable from your sMS-200ultra to a port on the switch
    • ensure these ports are not adjacent. I usually place these on the extreme ends of the range, i.e. ports 1 and 5 for a 5-port switch
    • obviously, clock the switch (via SMB cable) from your sMS-200ultra
    • use a good PSU on your switch, like the LPS-1 or 1.2
  • Use the dCBL-Cat7 between the switch and the sMS-200ultra, i.e. the final link. Pay attention to the directionality of the cable.
  • Obviously, you can go nuts with these expensive cables, but I personally make do with just one as describled above.

Hope this helps.

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For ethernet cables, try using Cat6 UTP (anything generic that's been Fluke tested and passed or even something like Belden bonded Cat6 UTP) for each link and to keep each link LONG, not short. You can get 10 meters Cat 6 UTP for around $10. Even if the length is not required, simply coil it and keep it on the ground. If some of the runs are naturally long, don't worry about changing those. However, if you have a switch that you keep nearby that you keep in the listening room beside the rack with a 1-2 meter cable, try changing that for a 10+ish meter Cat6 UTP.  Do that before spending something crazy on expensive cables or if you find ethernet cables sound different in your system.

 

Keep each chain long, and try to get used to the sound over a week. Initially, with the longer cables, you might think they are losing detail or things are dull/grainy or even too relaxed sounding. Pay attention to the image and what's happening to the plane of the music. Go back a week later and throw in the previous cables.

 

Of course, any shielded cable that is grounded on either end will be modulating the ground plane. Pick any cable that is UTP or shielded (Cat 6a S/STP or Cat7) that is floating on both ends or even a floating Audioquest or whatever at short lengths and then compare to a standard well made Cat6 UTP 10m+ in long-term listening.

Power: Torus (main) + Teradak (network)

Source: Bryston BDP-1 w/ Roon

DAC: Dangerous Source (Teradak 12V13A) + Emotiva DC-1

Amp: Amphion Amp100 + Marantz PM6004

Speakers: Amphion One15 + Mackie HR 824 Mk1

Headphones: Audeze LCD-2C + Denon AH-D2000 + HD 598 + KRK KNS 8400

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You can also try having the mod switch before rather than after the Mac. I found this better than after the Mac in my system. 

 

So it will be ethernet data -> mod switch -> bridged Mac -> sMS-200 .. etc

 

Internet music like Tidal or NAS will pass through the switch but if your Mac has the music files locally (eg USB) then those local file won't. I find that this way, network music sounds similar to local music stored on mac

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Supermicro X11SBA-LN4F is the big brother of X10SBA-L with quad Ethernet ports, about 200 bucks a piece and it could be an interesting option for killing multiple birds with one stone

 

https://www.servethehome.com/supermicro-x11sba-ln4f-review/

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813182988

https://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/X11/X11SBA-LN4F.cfm

 

4 system clocks @ 25MHz for quad Ethernet ports while an OCXO only costs $55. We could use that as NAS / Roon Server / Router while using another X10SBA-L only as an endpoint. Obviously it's also fairly cheap to replace a system clock or two on the other side so we're going through superior 25MHz clocks twice in a row

 

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/connor-winfield/OH4610LF-025.0M/CW899-ND/5641634

 

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19 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

This morning I decided to try powering the OCX10 with the JS-2.  Even though the DC cable is a step down from the one that I was using with the sPS-500, I prefer the sound with the JS-2 in place.  The most obvious difference is the fuller and more refined bass, but the sound overall seems richer with more texture and perhaps a bit more separation and air around the instruments.

 

I am finding that I prefer the LPS-1.2 and JS-2 over the sPS-500 for critical devices such as the OCX10, sMS-200ultra, and tX-USBultra.

 

That's pretty much everything and limits the sPS-500 to a device that is just good enough to power an LPS, if even that.  It only re-affirms the importance of an LPS.  I don't think the sPS is a bad supply by any means, I'm just not sure where I'll use it right now.

 

It may also demonstrate the benefit of properly pairing a PSU with a device.  This was one of the factors when I made my decision to buy the REF 10.

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19 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

I don't think the sPS is a bad supply by any means, I'm just not sure where I'll use it right now.

 

I agree that the sPS-500 is not a bad supply.  Mine will most likely end up powering my NAS and router once I receive my custom power supplies this summer.

 

I took the opposite path from you regarding the master clock.  After reading the REF 10 thread, I concluded that a Paul Hynes power supply could potentially offer the ultimate performance with a master clock, so I am taking a chance that it pairs well with the OCX10.  In the end, I am sure we will both be very happy with our respective choices.

 

 

 

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7 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

I agree that the sPS-500 is not a bad supply.  Mine will most likely end up powering my NAS and router once I receive my custom power supplies this summer.

 

I took the opposite path from you regarding the master clock.  After reading the REF 10 thread, I concluded that a Paul Hynes power supply could potentially offer the ultimate performance with a master clock, so I am taking a chance that it pairs well with the OCX10.  In the end, I am sure we will both be very happy with our respective choices.

 

How will you be powering a NAS and router with an sPS?

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On 4/23/2018 at 6:53 AM, jay said:

 

6

I did a few experiments myself but I have not tried bridge connection, so I can't comment on that. My findings are as follows:

 

- best to reduce or if possible mostly eliminate noise as close to the streamer as possible. (SMS-200ultra clocked by Ref10 in my case)

 

- I tried passive filtering with Acoustic Revive RLI-1 and active with an FMC. I much prefer the latter. It practically lets no noise through by design. I use it between the SOtM modified and clocked switch and the SMS-200 ultra. It filters noise so well that changing the supplied SMPS for the switch to an LPS makes no audible improvement. In return, the second FMC unit needs a good power supply.

 

- With this filtering, I did not hear any difference between running a standard cat5e cable from the server PC to the switch and expensive 'audio grade' LAN cables. 

 

- From the second FMC to the SMS-200 ultra, the LAN cable still makes a difference. A 3-metre Vovox Textura sounds better than a generic 0.5m  CAT7. 

 

There is a discussion on the Network forum on FMCs. Somebody said they hear some loss in dynamic range. So I only borrow first and I didn't hear any such loss at all. Tomorrow, we are going to test my FMC again a Pink Faun LAN isolator. I'll probably report on our findings in the Network forum.  

 

Also, be careful with LAN cables as the ones with metal connectors (and practically all audiophile LAN cables are like that) will not give you galvanic isolation and the SMS-200 ultra LAN input is NOT galvanically isolated. They is also discussion on this topic in the HQPlayer and the Network forums. 

HQplayer - NAA - Devialet D-800 - YG Acoustics Carmel + dual ELAC sub-2090

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1 minute ago, Johnseye said:

 

What NAS are you using that takes a 19v DC source?

 

I have a Synology DS213+ that runs at 12vdc.  I use a Gophert power supply set at 12vdc and 6A.  The DS213+ only consumes around 1.5A during normal operation, so I think the sPS should work even though its maximum current is only 5A.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

I have a Synology DS213+ that runs at 12vdc.  I use a Gophert power supply set at 12vdc and 6A.  The DS213+ only consumes around 1.5A during normal operation, so I think the sPS should work even though its maximum current is only 5A.

 

Ok, so that's a 2 disk NAS.  Looks like it's 60w.  The sPS is 50w.  Maybe it's not an issue if the NAS doesn't use all the power at peak.

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3 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

Ok, so that's a 2 disk NAS.  Looks like it's 60w.  The sPS is 50w.  Maybe it's not an issue if the NAS doesn't use all the power at peak.

 

Now I'm curious, so I just set the Gophert to 5A.  I can't ever recall the DS213+ drawing more than 3A, and that would have been on start up.  One of the nice things about the Gophert is its continuous display.

 

 

 

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1 minute ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

Now I'm curious, so I just set the Gophert to 5A.  I can't ever recall the DS213+ drawing more than 3A, and that would have been on start up.  One of the nice things about the Gophert is its continuous display.

 

Let me know if the sPS works.  I'm tempted to buy this Synology just because it can be powered externally.  My current NAS is an 8 bay with internal supply.

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Just now, Johnseye said:

 

Let me know if the sPS works.  I'm tempted to buy this Synology just because it can be powered externally.  My current NAS is an 8 bay with internal supply.

 

I'm not sure how soon I'll try it.  It could be another 4-6 weeks before I have the Linear Solution power supply that will free up one or both sPS's.  I'll be sure to let you know.

 

I don't know if it's relevant, but compared to the bigger units, the DS213+ generates less noise externally, and I presume, internally.  I also get the smallest possible HDD to minimize the noise there as well.  I recently had to upgrade from 2TB to 3TB drives, and the rated noise level went up slightly, but the change was not audible to me.  Going to 4TB and higher, the increase in rated noise is even greater and could potentially be audible.

 

 

 

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3 hours ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

Have you tried placing the FMC before the re-clocked switch?  @austinpop gave me that idea, and I found the SQ was marginally better there than between the re-clocked switch and sMS-200ultra. 

 

If you really like FMC's, you can have SOtM replace the regulator and capacitors to get even better sound.  (May bought a pair for me in locally in Korea, but Amazon can also ship them to SOtM very inexpensively if you are willing to accept a 2-3 week transit time.)  I went completely over-the-top and also had SOtM add SMB connectors, so my FMC's are being re-clocked by the OCX10 via the sMS-200ultra.  I get all of the benefits you describe, and then some.

Is the SQ best for you with just the modified switch and no FMC in any position ?

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