A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Of course I'm making an assertion, it's stated as such.

I have not tested this nor have I seen anyone do so, we just are not yet there.  But I think I can safely conclude from the theory of KISS, that as we bear out the last of the SQ damage being created in the server, that this, or any other fixer will become obsolete.

    

Knowing that, becomes a great saver of expense, which allows me to wait for the right technology/applications that will give me the biggest bang for the buck.  Meanwhile, I have put the front end, the least important component in the system chain, on the back burner for further improvement, until I see any reasonable path forward, from the sCLK-EX server, that is cost efficient (at least in my eyes).   Instead spending where I can get far more SQ for the buck. 

 

Let's get some data from others who, like you, have custom servers with sCLK-EX mods. I know @Johnseye and @mozes have tried tX-USBultra's after their custom sCLK-ed servers. What have you guys found?

 

Any others?

[seeteeyou]

5 hours ago, Johnseye said:

Is phase noise really the only thing we care about in a clock?  Nothing else?

 

We could also get an OCXO (27MHz) from http://www.oppomod.com and the phase noise turned out to be nothing to write home about

 

http://www.sbtron.co.kr/korean/product/pdfs/ocxo_sboc_25_sine.pdf

 

However, even its optical output would perform as good as the USB output from that ZENith SE + tX-USBultra + Mutec REF 10 combo when they're connected to either Chord DAVE or Hugo 2

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/review-comparison-of-5-high-end-digital-music-servers-aurender-n10-cad-cat-server-totaldac-d1-server-auralic-aries-audiophile-vortex-box.787020/page-78#post-14117821

 

Since DACs from Chord should be jitter agnostic, that might or might not be applicable for other brands. In addition, Toslink couldn't support anything above 192kHz while not all brands could accept DoP via Toslink.

 

---

 

Regarding Crystek, good luck with getting any worthy models with 25MHz unless we're buying in quantities

 

https://www.digikey.com/products/en?FV=ffec2025

https://www.digikey.com/products/en?FV=ffec741f

https://www.digikey.com/products/en?FV=ffec7420

 

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=205&tab=comments#comment-751270

On 12/7/2017 at 6:02 AM, RickyV said:

It is indeed difficult to find/ buy one crystek 575-25  25 MHz (fs105 clock).

The one on eBay is 56 dollar! That is a bit expensive, i thought thay were 8 dollar or so.

You also need a good regulator module too. Darn it is getting expensive again.

 

---

 

I would love to get something from http://www.pulsarclock.com myself if I were looking for a word clock, its compatibility with DIL14 clock sockets should be fantastic for stuff like Vanity203 HD or Ian Jin's McFIFO + McDualXO etc. However, we've been talking about system clocks so far while they don't seem to offer any frequencies (at least the standard ones) that we actually need.

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, Kritpoon said:

 

Thanks for the information Johnseye, so in this particular set up (with Custom Server ref clocked) I assume the SMS-200Ultra was connected in the chain? and just not being ref clocked. 

 

We should clarify that when we did the comparison of the custom server vs. the sMS-200ultra, both were not reference-clocked. It was only after we did this comparison that we connected the OP-14 to the custom server's sCLK-EX.

[Johnseye]

1 minute ago, austinpop said:

 

Let's get some data from others who, like you, have custom servers with sCLK-EX mods. I know @Johnseye and @mozes have tried tX-USBultra's after their custom sCLK-ed servers. What have you guys found?

 

Any others?

 

I had an iso-Regen for a while.  This was before I had the sCLK though.  It offered improvement but I had constant issues, even after I properly grounded the HDPlex psu of the server at the time.  The tX-U has been rock solid.  No issues and it definitely improves SQ.  It's been a while since I've A-B'd it so can't offer a good description of the improvements.

[hurka]

8 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Let's get some data from others who, like you, have custom servers with sCLK-EX mods. I know @Johnseye and @mozes have tried tX-USBultra's after their custom sCLK-ed servers. What have you guys found?

 

Any others?

my custom server : Sparky sbc,clocked sclk ex, system and usb chip ,singxer f1 also with sclk ex .

between sparky and singxer like isoR,tx usb ultra,usbridge ,make SQ worse or similar,no better.

Also upsampling more digi taste vs. Nos.

 

[Johnseye]

7 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

 

We could also get an OCXO (27MHz) from http://www.oppomod.com and the phase noise turned out to be nothing to write home about

 

http://www.sbtron.co.kr/korean/product/pdfs/ocxo_sboc_25_sine.pdf

 

However, even its optical output would perform as good as the USB output from that ZENith SE + tX-USBultra + Mutec REF 10 combo when they're connected to either Chord DAVE or Hugo 2

 

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/review-comparison-of-5-high-end-digital-music-servers-aurender-n10-cad-cat-server-totaldac-d1-server-auralic-aries-audiophile-vortex-box.787020/page-78#post-14117821

 

Since DACs from Chord should be jitter agnostic, that might or might not be applicable for other brands. In addition, Toslink couldn't support anything above 192kHz while not all brands could accept DoP via Toslink.

 

Yea I read the head-fi post.  It surprises me a mod'd Oppo as endpoint can essentially replace the Zenith, tX and REF 10.  I don't think there's anything magical about the Chord products, it just happens Roy uses the DAVE.  I auditioned one and while it does sound a little better than my AA.  Using the Cybershaft OP-14 improved the overall sound of my system much more than adding the DAVE did.  I guess YMMV.  I've been tempted to pick up an Oppo 205 and have it modded.  Too bad they're going out of business.

 

I think the point here is that phase noise isn't everything that needs to be considered.

[rickca]

I think we're getting a bit hung up on clock specs.  Good specs mean good potential outcome but good design/implementation is critical to realize that potential.  A good clock isn't going to turn a frog into a prince.  The frog just hops better.

 

 

[rickca]

5 hours ago, LTG2010 said:

Jitter or timing error causes a loss of detail and focus '3 dimensionality' This is where the sCLK ex excels.

We don't have any measurements that support this statement, so I don't think we can say that this is why sCLK-EX sounds so good.

[Johnseye]

2 minutes ago, rickca said:

We don't have any measurements that support this statement, so I don't think we can say that this is why sCLK-EX sounds so good.

 

I thought it was the noise filtering.

[Superdad]

7 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

Is phase noise really the only thing we care about in a clock?  Nothing else?

 

Pretty much.

 

5 hours ago, LTG2010 said:

Phase noise is measured as frequency phase error -short term oscillator  instability, there is also jitter - timing error. Jitter or timing error causes a loss of detail and focus '3 dimensionality'.

 

4 hours ago, Johnseye said:

There we go.  It's not just about phase noise.

 

Yes, for audio applications phase-noise (which is simply jitter plotted in the frequency domain) is all we care about when it comes to clocks!  And phase-noise at close-in, low frequency offsets are the most critical.

[seeteeyou]

46 minutes ago, rickca said:

Good specs mean good potential outcome but good design/implementation is critical to realize that potential.

 

IMHO even something as good as The Linear Solution OCXO switch could be further improved

 

http://thelinearsolution.com/ocxo_switch.html

 

They only mentioned "ultra stable regulator design" but most likely we could do better with LT3045.

 

Besides, they're including their own LPS with 9V output while the OCXO circuit would require 12V instead. In other words, it should be a idea to feed the OCXO part with LT3045 @ 12V separately. (i.e. avoiding the penalty of a single transformer with multiple rails while reaping the benefits of LT3045 such as ultra-low noise and ultra-high PSRR.)

[Superdad]

27 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

I thought it was the noise filtering.

 

The sCLK-EX is a clock board.  It’s outputs are clocks signals (derived from a SiliconLabs clock synthesizer chip—and an unknown crystal or XO used as the reference).  So what “noise” is it filtering?  (Most of the board is power networks around each derived clock output to keep them isolated from each other.)

But as with any clock, its sole relevant specification that we care about is: what for it...  phase-noise!  

[Johnseye]

1 minute ago, Superdad said:

 

The sCLK-EX is a clock board.  It’s outputs are clocks signals (derived from a SiliconLabs clock synthesizer chip—and an unknown crystal or XO used as the reference).  So what “noise” is it filtering?  (Most of the board is power networks around each derived clock output to keep them isolated from each other.)

But as with any clock, its sole relevant specification that we care about is: what for it...  phase-noise!

 

I don't know exactly, but May of SOtM told me straight up, it filters noise.

[Superdad]

5 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

I don't know exactly, but May of SOtM told me straight up, it filters noise.

 

From whatever power supply is powering it, sure.  But it’s output is a clean clock signal, and ALL that matters from a clock is jitter/phase-noise.  (Well, proper impedance termination will be important too—to preserve, again, low phase-noise/jitter.)

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

Regarding Crystek, good luck with getting any worthy models with 25MHz unless we're buying in quantities.

 

We have about 600 CCHD-575 @ 25MHz on the shelf.  How many do you want?  

[seeteeyou]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

We have about 600 CCHD-575 @ 25MHz on the shelf.  How many do you want?  

 

Thank you very much, it's great to have another source for those of us who only need a clock or two.

 

OTOH, why don't we invest more (€ 135.2 shipped outside EU) to get Neutrino 2 since the 22.5792 MHz version (NOT 25 MHz) seemed to beat CCHD-575 handily

 

http://www.singxer.com/pd.jsp?id=19

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/29553-my-very-mini-review-of-the-singxer-su-1-ddc/?page=52&tab=comments#comment-788425

On 2/27/2018 at 6:33 AM, rafa said:

Before the changes hires, so 48/96/192 sounded better than 44kHz in many aspects. Mostly from sound stage perspective.

Currently with Neutrino 44 get incredible boosted. 3D dimensional. Vocals more natural. But amazing is, it sounds better than hires.

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/29553-my-very-mini-review-of-the-singxer-su-1-ddc/?page=52&tab=comments#comment-788745

On 2/28/2018 at 12:07 AM, RickyV said:

 

Nice job rafa,

i am amazed at the difference in SQ between the 575 and the neutrino. You sould do the 24 too.

Now the neutrino will be staying you can shorten that clock sig cable, cm not dm.. as short as possible. It directly related to SQ. On newclassd site it says 10 cm max

 

[RickyV]

3 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

We have about 600 CCHD-575 @ 25MHz on the shelf.  How many do you want?  

That is nice to hear, I have to remember that for future projects

[RickyV]

I think the cchd-575 is perfect for modem/routers, switches and MOTHERBOARDS, hint hint  crawd funded mobo thread.

I maybe want to modify my modem/ router to, switch is all ready done.

[Cornan]

32 minutes ago, RickyV said:

I maybe want to modify my modem/ router to, switch is all ready done.

 

Spot on what I would want to do. If there is anywhere I would love a CCHD-575 in my setup with Tidal as the main music source it would be in the main router. I would love to buy one or two from @Superdad!  

[Cornan]

4 hours ago, Superdad said:

 

We have about 600 CCHD-575 @ 25MHz on the shelf.  How many do you want?  

 

I´m interested! Possible to buy just two? 

[LTG2010]

5 hours ago, rickca said:

We don't have any measurements that support this statement, so I don't think we can say that this is why sCLK-EX sounds so good

Well the sClk ex is just a clock board, a clock replacement. Clock = timing. If it's not providing a more accurate clock signal than that which  it replaces, what else is it doing?

[hurka]

8 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

I´m interested! Possible to buy just two? 

6 pcs!!!!! parallel!!!!! improve phase noise 

[Cornan]

2 minutes ago, hurka said:

6 pcs!!!!! parallel!!!!! improve phase noise 

 

Why not try if it is possible? 

[RickyV]

38 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Spot on what I would want to do. If there is anywhere I would love a CCHD-575 in my setup with Tidal as the main music source it would be in the main router. I would love to buy one or two from @Superdad!  

Cornan replacing clocks is not for beginners you need some knowledge of electronics and soldering and stuff.

[Cornan]

26 minutes ago, RickyV said:

Cornan replacing clocks is not for beginners you need some knowledge of electronics and soldering and stuff.

 

I know I know, but I am willing to learn!  

 

Here is what I am thinking to use it with. Just want to make sure that it would actually work on my main router http://shop.diyhifisupply.com/product/clock-modules/

Any ideas?

http://press.diyhifisupply.com/category/audio-parts/modules/ez-ultimate-clock-system/