A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[RickyV]

3 hours ago, TheAttorney said:

My 1 x 4GB Apacer arrived today 🙂. I did wonder if I'd dropped the size down too much for Ramroot usage: After ordering, I noticed Euphony had a logical drive called zram0 that had 4.9GB allocated, much higher that the measured memory utilization). So I was not entirely surprised at load time when I saw a Euphony Stylus message saying "not enough memory for ramroot" - Noooooooooooo!

 

I never had that message but I usually listen to tidal. The highest memory utilization i got was 43% with a playlist of 40 songs in the queue.

[justubes]

What the utilization without a playlist.

 

I would have though Tidal stores only 1 track on the ram at a time.

 

 

[RickyV]

3 hours ago, justubes said:

What the utilization without a playlist.

 

I would have though Tidal stores only 1 track on the ram at a time.

 

 

 

About 10 %.

 

i don’t know that’s what Euphony does with ramroot.

[cat6man]

will audiolinux and hqplayer work with just 4G of RAM? (I currently have a single 8G sodimm)

[seeteeyou]

FYI - here's an interesting comparison posted by @FredM

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/39088-innuos-zenith-statement/page/6/?tab=comments#comment-993162

 

 

 

[Johnseye]

23 hours ago, cat6man said:

will audiolinux and hqplayer work with just 4G of RAM? (I currently have a single 8G sodimm)

 

Yes

[cat6man]

2 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

Yes

 

great.

i will have to try the Apacer 4Gig ram under discussion above.

 

update:  ordered from Mouser, delivery Wednesday

[Volfram]

On 9/18/2019 at 4:38 AM, Nenon said:

- Sean Jacobs DC3 4-rail LPS (ATX - 12V, 5V,3.3V; EPS - 12V; all separate rails)

Dear Nenon, how is the DC3 connected to ATX and EPS contacts?

Do you have schematics?

I suppose you dont have all 24 + 8 connected since some are not used? -12V for example.

(See number 14 in attached picture)

[TheAttorney]

My final update on "RAM Rolling":

 

The improvement going from 1 x 8GB stock to 1 x 4GB Apacer was clearly greater than going from 2 x 8GB stock to 1 x 8GB stock.

But I can't quantify it any further becuase the sound seemed to seesaw between slightly bright and slighly dark on the first few consecutive days. There could be a dozen real or imaginary reasons for that, one of which is that RAM can be impacted by burn-in.

 

That slight seesaw effect resulted in a moving reference point, hence I can't now exactly quantify the end result. But overall I wouldn't argue with the post a while back that said his memory upgrade gave a greater SQ boost than changing Euphony disc root to ramroot - i.e. RAM Rolling really is worth the effort. 

 

Finally, my Euphony ramroot error message (at point of enabling ramroot, not during the subsequent reboot) was because Euphony had not expected people to use so little memory for ramroot. So with current version, there is a small chance of running out of memory - although I never have got even close to that, despite having over 200 tracks in my play queue. Euphony reserves additional root filestore for headroom, upgrade and repair purposes etc, which does increase the total space reserved.

 

I understand that the next Euphony release will have it's space allocation adjusted slightly to fully support 4GB for default ramroot booted from internal drive. But boot-from-USB-stick reserves additional space - 4GB still may be possible, but see the recently updated ramroot Knowledge Base entry for more details. 

 

[Energy]

I've just purchased the 8GB version of the Apacer Industrial RAM. Will see how it compares to the 8GB version of the HyperX Consumer RAM. CL17 vs C14, but with the difference in industrial grade. Have no heard 2 sticks so I am only able to do a stick vs stick comparison.

 

On other news, it seems like there's now a rise for AMD-based NUC's. The one I saw was the iBox-R1000. I wonder how it sounds compared to an Intel NUC7i7DNHE (Asaka Plato X7D). The cool thing is that they already come in a fanless case and feature displayport with dual Ethernet. If those aren't used, the one interesting thing to point out is their ECC RAM support. TDP is kind of high though at 12-25W but that might depend on how many utilities are being used.

[seeteeyou]

 

Does it sound more like marketing ploy or what?

 

https://lenovopress.com/lp0021-truddr4-memory-video

https://lenovopress.com/lp1021-lenovo-thinksystem-memory-summary

Quote

ThinkSystem TruDDR4 Memory delivers trusted, tested, quality, performance, and reliability throughout the ThinkSystem portfolio. We use the highest quality industry-standard memory components sourced from Tier 1 DRAM suppliers. Only memory that meets these strict requirements are selected for TruDDR4 Memory. It is then compatibility tested and tuned on every ThinkSystem server to maximize reliability.

 

4GB flavor couldn't be found anywhere so far, both Non-ECC and ECC UDIMMs for 8GB ones

 

https://www.provantage.com/axiom-upgrades-4zc7a08701-ax~7AXM9V6U.htm

https://www.provantage.com/lenovo-4zc7a08696~7LEND7VJ.htm

[Gavin1977]

14 minutes ago, Energy said:

I've just purchased the 8GB version of the Apacer Industrial RAM. Will see how it compares to the 8GB version of the HyperX Consumer RAM. CL17 vs C14, but with the difference in industrial grade. Have no heard 2 sticks so I am only able to do a stick vs stick comparison.

 

On other news, it seems like there's now a rise for AMD-based NUC's. The one I saw was the iBox-R1000. I wonder how it sounds compared to an Intel NUC7i7DNHE (Asaka Plato X7D). The cool thing is that they already come in a fanless case and feature displayport with dual Ethernet. If those aren't used, the one interesting thing to point out is their ECC RAM support. TDP is kind of high though at 12-25W but that might depend on how many utilities are being used.

This one also looks good: https://www.bvm.co.uk/Datasheets/4X4 BOX-V1000.pdf

[seeteeyou]

Dunno why but they just kept showing us the product pages and news etc. about Ryzen Embedded while the actual availability seemed to be somewhat sketchy so far. Either they're like relatively expensive ones from DFI or they just aren't shipping for real (yet?)

 

https://www.smachz.com/shop/

https://www.udoo.org/udoo-bolt/

https://www.dfi-itox.com/estore/gh171-v1202b-bundle.html

https://www.dfi-itox.com/estore/gh171-v1605b-bundle.html

https://www.dfi-itox.com/estore/gh171-v1756b-bundle.html

https://www.dfi-itox.com/estore/gh171-v1807b-bundle.html

https://portwell.com/products/detail.php?CUSTCHAR1=GCM-B630 620

https://www.advantech.com/products/economy_(e_series)/dpx-e140/mod_809b1156-bcd4-4b27-b71b-3c6b730a63fb

 

Here's (maybe?) an exception or two but "late of August" could very well mean so many different things

 

https://mitxpc.com/products/ibox-v1000

https://mitxpc.com/products/ibox-r1000m

 

And then there are some Epyc 3000 Embedded ones (4 outta 5 are passively cooled) for $500 and above that are actually in stock

 

https://www.supermicro.com/Aplus/motherboard/Embedded/EPYC3000/

https://www.amazon.com/SuperMicro-M11SDV-4C-LN4F-Mini-ITX-Motherboard-Processor/dp/B07QNSD877

 

Other than that, Ryzen 3900 with 12 cores @ 65W TDP could be an ideal choice for a fanless server running Euphony / Stylus

 

https://www.anandtech.com/show/14912/amds-ryzen-9-3900-a-12core-65w-cpu-listed-by-motherboard-maker

 

[Energy]

Great find. More information on TruDDR4.

It sounds like according to them, a standard system that takes 1866 MHz has the ability to run at 2133 MHz if using TruDDR4. The system will authenticate the RAM by detecting their unique signature program and thus will load into the profile and run at those speeds. The part I don't understand is where they mention "System x servers and Flex System compute nodes". Since they're RDIMMs and LRDIMMs, it should only be compatible on server motherboards.

 

Slightly different than industrial as those have a lot of other improvements including better BOM to all parts. From what I know is when memory modules are created there are some that are put in certain batches that cannot operate at a higher frequency and so they would get sold at or below that frequency threshold. The TruDDR4 on the other hand has memory modules that succeed the frequency threshold but is sold at that frequency. It is then encoded with a profile so that it can be set to go higher even when the motherboard has a maximum frequency limitation. I could be wrong, but it sounds like the industrial ram would benefit sound quality more given it's fixed bill-of-material (same batch of ram chips), wide temperature, conformal coating, side fill, anti-sulphuration than a ram stick that can go higher clocks.

 

It seems like AMD NUC's aren't going to be released for awhile and even when they do it would be available overseas first. Those markets do better for this type of device I'm guessing. Hopefully those lower power consumption ones can be powered from a Farad Super3. The Epyc 3000 on the other hand looks much bigger than something like a Intel NUC so I wonder if it would still sound as good given more parts/components being used which may result to more noise. The Ryzen 3900 sounds like the perfect CPU to be used in a music server. The TDP puts it just low enough to be used in a fanless chassis.

[Bricki]

On 9/23/2019 at 11:04 AM, elan120 said:

I know I also want to add JSSG360 treatment to these cables, meanwhile, the recent learning from different configurations in using Lush^2 USB cables, I decided to experiment by adding a third layer of shield to make it JSSG360^3 and see how that will work.

I have ordered some more braided tinned copper sleeve because I want to try a 3rd layer on my USB and Ethernet cable to my endpoint NUC.... just confirming that you had all 3 layers of shield connected at both ends and each shield separated by a layer of insulation... with nothing connected to ground?

[elan120]

1 hour ago, Bricki said:

just confirming that you had all 3 layers of shield connected at both ends and each shield separated by a layer of insulation... with nothing connected to ground?

Yes, confirmed.  Please see pictures below as reference.  Looking forward to your impression when you are done.

 

First two layer shields connected together without connected to ground:

 

I left about 6mm of section exposed (Red Circles) without heat shrink tubing to connect to the third layer shield:

 

Third layer added:

 

 

[Nenon]

12 hours ago, Volfram said:

Dear Nenon, how is the DC3 connected to ATX and EPS contacts?

Do you have schematics?

I suppose you dont have all 24 + 8 connected since some are not used? -12V for example.

(See number 14 in attached picture)

 

A 20 PIN connector with 3.3V, 5V, and 12V. And an 8 PIN EPS with a 12V rail.

Modern motherboards don't use the -12V or -5V. Just googled Innuos images, and on this one you can clearly see what PINs they wire up on the 20 PIN connector.

 

Don't worry about PIN16 (PS-ON), you can skip that one but should connect the rest of the wires on the 20 PIN connector + the EPS connector. That worked on all motherboards I have tried so far ...

 

[Bricki]

49 minutes ago, elan120 said:

Yes, confirmed.  Please see pictures below as reference.  Looking forward to your impression when you are done.

 

First two layer shields connected together without connected to ground:

 

I left about 6mm of section exposed (Red Circles) without heat shrink tubing to connect to the third layer shield:

 

Third layer added:

 

 

Excellent! 😁👍 Thanks heaps for this... I hope to have my USB cable completed with this 3rd layer in a couple of weeks... I will post my impressions when done and then complete my Ethernet cable 😁👍

[Volfram]

@Nenon, To understand the schematics I compared it to a ATX 20 pin layout I found on wiki(see attached picture)

I had to flip the wiki layout to match the innous, can you confirm this is correct?

Whats the voltage rating for blue cable in port 14 "PS_ON#" and gray in port 8 "PWR_OK"?

[Volfram]

1 hour ago, Volfram said:

Whats the voltage rating for blue cable in port 14 "PS_ON#" and gray in port 8 "PWR_OK"?

Seems to be 5V for both according to wiki.

With "PWR_OK" having some specific requirement to drop of in voltage(to less than 0.4 V) if internal self-tests not fulfilled.

[Nenon]

4 hours ago, Volfram said:

@Nenon, To understand the schematics I compared it to a ATX 20 pin layout I found on wiki(see attached picture)

I had to flip the wiki layout to match the innous, can you confirm this is correct?

Whats the voltage rating for blue cable in port 14 "PS_ON#" and gray in port 8 "PWR_OK"?

 

You don't need to connect PIN 14 "PS_ON".

PIN 1 is +3.3VDC.

PIN 3 is Ground.

PIN 9, PIN 8, and PIN 4. is +5VDC. 

PIN 10 is +12VDC.

That's how I connect it. We are going offtopic here, though. Ping me on PM if you have more questions. 

 

 

[austinpop]

Thanks guys. Good info, but best to take it offline.

[luisma]

21 hours ago, Bricki said:

Excellent! 😁👍 Thanks heaps for this... I hope to have my USB cable completed with this 3rd layer in a couple of weeks... I will post my impressions when done and then complete my Ethernet cable 😁👍

Not trying to advertise here but results with lush^2 kind of show full 3 layer jssg360 wouldn't be the best config although close, maybe you can leave yourself open to options with a redo static jssg360 3 layer? Just saying, you can take a advantage of the results and do your own testing. Personally I got lush^2 

[Bricki]

2 hours ago, luisma said:

Not trying to advertise here but results with lush^2 kind of show full 3 layer jssg360 wouldn't be the best config although close, maybe you can leave yourself open to options with a redo static jssg360 3 layer? Just saying, you can take a advantage of the results and do your own testing. Personally I got lush^2 

When you say a "static jssg360 3 layer", do you mean not connected to the underlying first 2 layers at all? Or do you mean like the TANF configuration in the lush^2 thread, which is as best I can tell, a jssg360 with a 3rd layer only connected to the first 2 layers at the output end? 

[bobfa]

On 7/24/2019 at 10:26 PM, austinpop said:

Comparison with the LPS-1.2

 

The LPS-1.2 is the go-to LPS for digital gear, and is a tough-to-beat combination of excellent SQ and reasonable price. I've had as many as 3 of these simultaneously in my system, and currently use 2 of them. For this comparison, I alternated between the LPS-1.2 and Farad, both with the AS cable, first powering the sNH-10G switch and then the tX-USBultra.

 

These two PSUs certainly have different sonic attributes! The LPS-1.2 sounds open and spacious, but also brighter, and slightly more in-your-face. The Farad, in contrast, is smother, darker, with deeper bass. Its resolution and rendition of fine detail is just as good, while being less fatiguing over longer listening sessions. I also felt it was a bit more dynamic than the LPS-1.2.

 

I'd say the Farad is the better PSU sonically, although it does cost approx. 25% more than the LPS-1.2.

I did not think that the LPS-1.2 would run the TXUSBUltra.  I will try to start with that when mine arrives from Audiosensibility.  I am torn by power supply selection and  I am not going to rush.