A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[Superdad]

7 hours ago, Energy said:

On ldovr.com LT3045 boards the ILIM is connected to GND since monitoring is not used. All the methods on the data sheet also suggest connecting it to GND.

 

If there was a way to cut the output impedance by half I’d do it to all of my LT3045 boards. Please enlighten us. I spent half an hour looking at the data-sheet

 

Probably not possible to implement as a mod to existing boards.

 

2 hours ago, bit01 said:

probably page 26 of the datasheet?

 

Bottom of page 25.  Only we don't use a resistor, just the calculated resistance of the trace between them for the ballast drop.

 

 

1 hour ago, henke said:

Got me wondering if the supposed LT3045 on my board are legit. It says:

"LGYP

N912

827"

On them not "LT3045" as my MPaudio board. 

Have anyone seen theese type LT3045 package that I have?

 

Those are just the 10-pad DFN package versions instead of the 12-lead MSOP.

[tapatrick]

1 hour ago, Nenon said:

 

And that sounds much better than your NUC directly connected with USB to your DAC? And it sounds better than your NUC USB --> IsoRegen --> DAC? I am just trying to understand if your USB started to sound better than you I2S or your Antipodes Dxe sounds better than your NUC. How do you power the NUC?

Yes my Antipodes Dxe with just usb cable to my Dac. However I’m still evaluating as it’s such a shock.

 

I found that taking out all the spaghetti and add ons including NUC endpoint running AL ramboot, Isoregen and the Ultradigital all powered by PH SR4s got me back to a SQ that was equally detailed but without the harsh edge that had appeared. I cannot stand any edgeiness.

 

The Dac software upgrade (and its FREE) is such a shift that my whole system has been reconfigured. 

[Metnoc]

Farad 19v to roon core and 12v to sms200ultra.
Will report back in a couple of days on results compared to uptone lps 1.2 and stock psu among other things.

[Chopin75]

1 hour ago, tapatrick said:

Yes my Antipodes Dxe with just usb cable to my Dac. However I’m still evaluating as it’s such a shock.

 

I found that taking out all the spaghetti and add ons including NUC endpoint running AL ramboot, Isoregen and the Ultradigital all powered by PH SR4s got me back to a SQ that was equally detailed but without the harsh edge that had appeared. I cannot stand any edgeiness.

 

The Dac software upgrade (and its FREE) is such a shift that my whole system has been reconfigured. 

It is actually not so much of a shock and makes sense. I have had similar experience. I upgraded my server to using LPS. silent PC etc. and all the spaghetti like Igalvanic have been removed. I also removed a tube stage that used to make the sound less harsh but it blurs the details and so it is removed when I switched to balanced output.  I have only single USB (optical) with a Regen adaptor that blocks Vbus connected from Server directly to DAC.   The sound is much more open, less processed but yes, details are more prominent and if the recording is poor it stands out more. I see your Antipodes Dxe is pretty hardcore and from what I read, it aims to have as little noise as baseline and has no filters added so it probably is quite a revealing server. And with the revealing DAC then you have this result. If you notice your best recordings are now sounding amazing then you are on the right track! (since improvement in a noise-free environment is most noted often in high quality recordings).  If I am right that you have PS audio which only does DSD (all PCM ---> DSD), which means clock and  power supplies most important (and probably speed too) any crap un between the server and DAC can be detrimental. I find DSD improvement is simply jaw dropping amazing and I can only do DSD256 max in my DAC. (PS audio does like DSD x 10 upsample?)

It is possible that the NUC/AL is more noisy in general than the Antipodes in general, just my guess, and leads to more noise to the DAC which is now somehow very sensitive to impure signal (or jitter or whatever they call this), sorry for layman terms... 

 

[Metnoc]

3 hours ago, Metnoc said:

Farad 19v to roon core and 12v to sms200ultra.
Will report back in a couple of days on results compared to uptone lps 1.2 and stock psu among other things.

  

First update, the sms200u as a roon endpoint is no longer unequivocally an improvement over than just using the usb output from the roon core when supplying the computer with a farad psu rather than the standard psu. Snappier transients with sms but also a “colder” sound and less “analogue”. But this might not come as a surprise to the folks in this forum. The roon core computer is a zotac 620 with a i3-8130U cpu, and no special upgrades such as hifi clocks.
Still prefer windows 10 with fidelizer over Audiolinux though, al sounds cleaner but also too thin.

[tapatrick]

3 hours ago, Chopin75 said:

It is actually not so much of a shock and makes sense. I have had similar experience. I upgraded my server to using LPS. silent PC etc. and all the spaghetti like Igalvanic have been removed. I also removed a tube stage that used to make the sound less harsh but it blurs the details and so it is removed when I switched to balanced output.  I have only single USB (optical) with a Regen adaptor that blocks Vbus connected from Server directly to DAC.   The sound is much more open, less processed but yes, details are more prominent and if the recording is poor it stands out more. I see your Antipodes Dxe is pretty hardcore and from what I read, it aims to have as little noise as baseline and has no filters added so it probably is quite a revealing server. And with the revealing DAC then you have this result. If you notice your best recordings are now sounding amazing then you are on the right track! (since improvement in a noise-free environment is most noted often in high quality recordings).  If I am right that you have PS audio which only does DSD (all PCM ---> DSD), which means clock and  power supplies most important (and probably speed too) any crap un between the server and DAC can be detrimental. I find DSD improvement is simply jaw dropping amazing and I can only do DSD256 max in my DAC. (PS audio does like DSD x 10 upsample?)

It is possible that the NUC/AL is more noisy in general than the Antipodes in general, just my guess, and leads to more noise to the DAC which is now somehow very sensitive to impure signal (or jitter or whatever they call this), sorry for layman terms... 

 

Yes I agree the Antipodes plus PS Dac are a great combo (I have had them for some years). All the benefits of my server and Dac were available before I went down the NUC route with other add ons. These made significant improvements to my original set up, which now are detracting from the over all SQ. The software upgrade has moved the goal posts considerably and it's very interesting how much potential there is in FGPA software over hardware. 

[Marcin_gps]

On 10/7/2019 at 11:46 PM, lwr said:

Is it a clear step up in technical specs only, or a clear step up in SQ?  If it’s a clear step up in SQ, is it as big a step up as from consumer grade memory to industrial grade memory? 

 

In SQ. 

I have not used consumer grade memory since 2012 when i first tested ECC Apacer DDR3

 

On 10/8/2019 at 12:28 PM, Gavin1977 said:

Mouser (UK's APacer distributer) are unable to identify this memory.  D31.23185S.001 DDR4 4GB ECC UDIMM

 

Marcin - Are you able to provide a weblink?  Also, any non-ECC version and feedback on sound?

https://industrial.apacer.com/en-ww/DRAM/DDR4-Wide-Temp.-ECC-UDIMM

 

Non ECC version is also available: https://industrial.apacer.com/en-ww/DRAM/DDR4-Wide-Temp.-UDIMM

 

Regards, 
Marcin

[Nenon]

BTW, I have ordered the ECC memory Marcin mentioned through my connection. I was planning to test it, compare with the other memory I have (Apacer and non-Apacer) and post more about it. I will have a couple of extra pieces. PM me if you are looking for it, so we don't go offtopic here. 

[phusis]

Soon about to be building a new musik server (/HTPC), as the old, current one is pushing beyond 10 years. Yeah, I know - I hear the blasphemous screams from CA-members in reaction to a largely non-optimized HTPC (apart from Fidelizer 8.4) this old for anything approaching audiophile sonics, but, oh well, times flies..

 

Initially, a few years back, I had intended for its retirement as a music server, but about a year ago I sold my previous sMS-200 Ultra (12V w/copper cable upgrades) + sPS-500, because I found my existing Audiophilleo 2 + PurePower to equal, and in some respects better the SOtM combo via named old PC-server (YMMV, of course). Wouldn't you know, but it did.

 

I now intend to upgrade the software part as well, to JPLAY FEMTO for music-only duties, and remain on the JRiver MC25 platform for movies (@Marcin_gps, I'll be looking for your server-tips and the innards to be used here). Used to run JPLAY (Classic?) through JRiver, but that ended with the latter's support withdrawal of the former - not that there really was any to begin with. Being I'm a JPLAY owner though will make use of the price reduction on the FEMTO. 

 

Thanks for this thread. 

 

 

 

[bobfa]

3 hours ago, phusis said:

 

I now intend to upgrade the software part as well, to JPLAY FEMTO for music-only duties, and remain on the JRiver MC25 platform for movies (@Marcin_gps, I'll be looking for your server-tips and the innards to be used here). Used to run JPLAY (Classic?) through JRiver, but that ended with the latter's support withdrawal of the former - not that there really was any to begin with. Being I'm a JPLAY owner though will make use of the price reduction on the FEMTO. 

We will be very interested to hear about how things sound as you go forward!

[ASRMichael]

On 10/7/2019 at 2:04 PM, Nenon said:

 

My recommendation:

- Remove the "WD SSD drive" from this configuration.

- Add an Optane memory card for the OS.

- Get a Synology or similar NAS for your library. For example, the DiskStation DS218 models work great.

- Get a USB card.

   ---- Option #1 - Get a JCAT USB card and power up with a SJ rail.

   ---- Option #2 - Get a PinkFaun USB card with ultraOCXO clock and power up with a SJ rail. You may not need the Innuos Phoenix USB reclocker in that case (the only way to find out is to try it out). Essentially the PinkFaun USB with OCXO clock powered up by SJ rail would be similar to the Innous Phoenix. The only essential difference is that the Innuos powers up the OCXO with a seperate rail, while PinkFaun shares the same power supply rail for the USB and OCXO. You can also try the Intona USB isolator with this configuration. 

- Add a good network switch. 

- I have asked my friend who buys a lot of Apacer products for his company to find out what is the best Apacer non-ECC memory for cases like your. Will post when I get more info. 

 

 

Nenon, you were right....... I have removed the SSD from my server, connected my NAS direct to TLS switch and guess what?? I thought bingo....I know my mind can play tricks, so I asked my wife to play her favourite songs and she asked "what has changed"? I said why? she said "have you spent more money again?" I said no! , she didn't believe me. What she is effectively saying it sounds better!!

 

Cheers

[elan120]

On 10/4/2019 at 7:15 PM, Bricki said:

I have now completed a 3rd layer on my Supra cat8 Ethernet cable used on the bridged connection from my server to NUC endpoint.

I did the same TANF configuration and connected just one end to the underlying jssg 360 layers.

The end with the longer section of heat shrink denotes the end that connects to the jssg 360 shielding.

 

After listening for a couple of hours this seems to have even more impact than the USB cable... maybe it's the fact that this cable has to pass over my furutech TCS31 ac cable that goes to my sps500 or maybe it's the fact that it's 1meter long as opposed to the USB cable that is only 280mm... Whatever the reason I think it has more impact in my system.

 

The impact is very similar to the USB cable. The background is blacker again and the music even richer... The depth has increased further still as well as focus. Vocals again seem to be more dimensional and everything pops more.

 

The music has a lot more emotion and feeling to it. Small nuances are more evident and bring more character... just listened to son of neck bone by the beastie boys and the impact of the drums and the timbre of the cow bell is just making it so real 😁👍... I wonder what I'll sheild next 🙄

 

On 10/5/2019 at 6:14 PM, ray-dude said:

That’s awesome, thank you for the report! Now to figure out an easy way to add a forth layer to the Lush^2

This JSSG360x2 is quite interesting and I decided to give it a try with the materials just arrived to one of my Lush^2 cable.  So far, with about an hour of playing time, it is clear that I have my new favorite.  Now I am going to modify my other Lush^2 cable to this configuration (A: Y-W,  B: R-B).

 

Here is a picture of my modified Lush^2:

[Bricki]

30 minutes ago, elan120 said:

 

This JSSG360x2 is quite interesting and I decided to give it a try with the materials just arrived to one of my Lush^2 cable.  So far, with about an hour of playing time, it is clear that I have my new favorite.  Now I am going to modify my other Lush^2 cable to this configuration (A: Y-W,  B: R-B).

 

Here is a picture of my modified Lush^2:

Awesome! My next step is to try this jssg360x2 on my ethernet cable 😁👍

[Nenon]

Group buy for Apacer RAM

I was not planning to do this, but a few members asked me to do it since this memory is not available anywhere, and we got Rajiv’s (austinpop) permission to post this. 
I am going to organize a group buy for the Apacer Industrial memory for a NUC7i7DN. 

 

Some people bought the 75.B93GJ.G010B memory from here and reported excellent results. Probably as a result of this, the memory is out of stock on this web site now. 

 

Marcin reported the following:

On 10/7/2019 at 12:12 PM, Marcin_gps said:

Those of you who are looking at Apacer industrial ECC RAM, make sure to order the brand new model with Samsung IC:

D31.23185S.001  DDR4 4GB ECC UDIMM 2666 CL19 WT

 

It's a clear step up from the previously available model. 

Marcin is talking about ECC DRAM, which is NOT COMPATIBLE with a NUC. However, what Marcin is saying here is that the 'new' version of the Apacer sounds better than the 'previous' version. 

 

If the same analogy is true for the non-ECC SDRAM for the NUC7i7DN, then the model that people are suggesting, buying, and testing (75.B93GJ.G010B) is the 'previous' model. The new model, compatible with NUC7i7DN is:

D21.23180S.001 DDR4 4GB SODIMM 2666 CL19 WT

I was not able to find that memory available anywhere online. 

 

 

I reached out to my friend who works with Apacer, and he said he could place a one-time order of D21.23180S.001 memory for us. Hence this post. The price would be $75 shipped within the US. People outside of the US would have to pay actual shipping. Orders would be collected until Sunday, October 20th. He would require a full payment via PayPal until the end of the day on 10/20/2019. The order would be placed on Monday, 10/21/2019. Once the order is placed I will provide an update with the expected shipping date. Typically it takes about 10 days. If you want to participate in the group buy please send me a PM. 

 

It is important to keep this thread on topic. Please contact me directly if you have any questions. 

 

Summary:

- This is a group order for the 4GB Apacer D21.23180S.001 memory.

- Deadline: 10/20/2019

- Price: $75 shipped within the US. 

- Send me a PM if you would like to participate. 

 

 

 

[ray-dude]

1 hour ago, Bricki said:

Awesome! My next step is to try this jssg360x2 on my ethernet cable 😁👍

 

I was able to add a fourth shield layer to my Lush^2 cables earlier this week, and I agree that JSSG360x2 is a definite new favorite (absolutely dark backgrounds, no loss of real detail or resolution, very very relaxed and stress free presentation)  Coming from a JSSG360^3 config, impact was immediate and obvious. Thank you @Bricki for doing the additional experiment and reporting your findings!

 

I have a bunch of configurations I plan to test this weekend, mixing and matching the 4 shield layers in different ways

 

For the Lush^2, assuming these wires (from most inner shield to outside shield):

 

1 (White)

2 (Yellow)

3 (Red)

4 (new - block/stripe)

 

I will be testing these configs:

 

JSSG360^3+              A: 1-2-3, 4   B: 1-2-3, 4

JSSG360x2                 A: 1-2, 3-4   B: 1-2, 3-4

JSSG360^3.5             A: 1-2-3, 4   B: 1-2-3-4

JSSG360^4                A: 1-2-3-4   B: 1-2-3-4

 

And for fun:

 

JSSG360x2link          A: 1-3, 2-4   B: 1-3, 2-4

JSSG360x2bullseye  A: 1-4, 2-3   B: 1-4, 2-3

 

Hard to imagine something better than what I'm hearing with 360x2, but very excited to find out!

 

[elan120]

3 hours ago, Bricki said:

Awesome! My next step is to try this jssg360x2 on my ethernet cable 😁👍

Thank you for the experiment result.  I completed the second Lush^2 cable modification earlier, been listening the music for the past two hours and the result is even more evidence.  I also plan to experiment more configurations especially JSSG360x2link and JSSG360x2bullseye mentioned by @ray-dude, but as of now, this is the best configuration I have experienced.

[henke]

Im wondering if one stick of RAM will sound better than 2 sticks in dual channel? I have 2× 4GB at the moment but I dont need the performance of dual channel I think and only 2.5GB is used. Has anyone any experience of 1 vs 2 sticks?

[RickyV]

28 minutes ago, henke said:

Im wondering if one stick of RAM will sound better than 2 sticks in dual channel? I have 2× 4GB at the moment but I dont need the performance of dual channel I think and only 2.5GB is used. Has anyone any experience of 1 vs 2 sticks?

Try it, listen and switch a couple of times between one and two sticks.

But don’t forget to power down the steamer, disconnect power cord and discharge yourself on something that goes to earth.

 

[henke]

29 minutes ago, RickyV said:

Try it, listen and switch a couple of times between one and two sticks.

But don’t forget to power down the steamer, disconnect power cord and discharge yourself on something that goes to earth.

 

Yes maybe I will do that thought I ask so I know if it's worth trying out. Kind of hard to A/B:ing the change also

[Blackmorec]

14 hours ago, ray-dude said:

 

I was able to add a fourth shield layer to my Lush^2 cables earlier this week, and I agree that JSSG360x2 is a definite new favorite (absolutely dark backgrounds, no loss of real detail or resolution, very very relaxed and stress free presentation)  Coming from a JSSG360^3 config, impact was immediate and obvious. Thank you @Bricki for doing the additional experiment and reporting your findings!

 

I have a bunch of configurations I plan to test this weekend, mixing and matching the 4 shield layers in different ways

 

For the Lush^2, assuming these wires (from most inner shield to outside shield):

 

1 (White)

2 (Yellow)

3 (Red)

4 (new - block/stripe)

 

I will be testing these configs:

 

JSSG360^3+              A: 1-2-3, 4   B: 1-2-3, 4

JSSG360x2                 A: 1-2, 3-4   B: 1-2, 3-4

JSSG360^3.5             A: 1-2-3, 4   B: 1-2-3-4

JSSG360^4                A: 1-2-3-4   B: 1-2-3-4

 

And for fun:

 

JSSG360x2link          A: 1-3, 2-4   B: 1-3, 2-4

JSSG360x2bullseye  A: 1-4, 2-3   B: 1-4, 2-3

 

Hard to imagine something better than what I'm hearing with 360x2, but very excited to find out!

 

Obviously very effective and efficient shielding works wonders. Possibly why Synergistic Research  Atmosphere X Ref USB cables sound so good, given the very effective shield materials they tell us they use 

[seeteeyou]

On 10/8/2019 at 1:12 AM, Marcin_gps said:

Those of you who are looking at Apacer industrial ECC RAM, make sure to order the brand new model with Samsung IC:

D31.23185S.001  DDR4 4GB ECC UDIMM 2666 CL19 WT

 

I saw that you're also quite fond of SLC CF cards from Apacer

 

http://jplay.eu/forum/index.php?/topic/2413-apacer-cf-card-extended-range-temperature-as-ssd/#entry41693

http://jplay.eu/forum/index.php?/topic/1141-guide-how-to-properly-set-up-windows-server-2012-on-a-cf-card/page-3#entry41542

 

Their latest model should be CS710-CF and 32GB ones are about $330 on Mouser, did you try previous generations yourself and just wondering if the impact were as significant as what ECC RAM could bring to the table?

 

https://industrial.apacer.com/en-ww/SSD/CS710-CF

https://www.soselectronic.com/products/apacer/ap-cf032grhns-etnrk-320536

https://www.mouser.com/Semiconductors/Memory-ICs/Memory-Modules-Memory-Cards/Memory-Cards/CS710-CF-Series/_/N-fb8vi?P=1y8f0ve

 

Since not all motherboards are compatible with CF-to-SATA adapters these days, their SLC SSDs might seem to be a better to me

 

https://industrial.apacer.com/en-ww/SSD/SS130-25

https://www.soselectronic.com/products/apacer/aps25hu7032g-ktwf-322963

 

SS130-25 was released several months ago and therefore it should be fairly new.

[[email protected]]

On 10/8/2019 at 5:14 AM, Superdad said:

The technique is hiding in plain site in the data sheet.   John has wired LT3045s both ways and measured about half the output impedance when it is done right.  For some reason Alexy at ldovr does not believe it. Oh well...

possible reasons

it is almost useless
it is harmful

i belive that you can get lower impedance with ILIM circuit, but i prefer have lower noise 

[Bricki]

I got the 4th layer and my 2 independent JSSG360 finished on my Supra cat8 Ethernet cable a few days ago... This JSSG360x2 shielding on this ethernet cable is a smashing success!

 

The improvement is very obvious and immediate. It sounds much richer and fuller and more coherent. Lyrics are easily discernable with what seems like better enunciation. Fine details are easily heard with a feeling of higher resolution and the character of instruments and voices has changed to become more realistic and personable. The dynamics are even better and with greater ease and backgrounds are inky black. Everything is more relaxed and less hard. Beautiful textures and timbres are coming to life. 

 

It's so good I think I'm going to have to order more braid 🤣

 

Final layer of insulation

I've run out of black heat shrink 🤣

 

The cable is now so thick that I didn't measure my final shield layer correctly and had to extend it with another piece to complete the circuit. All mistakes can be covered up with heat shrink 😁

 

It's a fat cumbersome Ethernet cable reminiscent of manly power cables but it's all worthwhile once you figure out a way to plug it in 🤣. When my Etheregen arrives in January I'm going to need more weights to hold it down 🤣

[rickca]

23 minutes ago, Bricki said:

When my Etheregen arrives in January I'm going to need more weights to hold it down 🤣

I've actually been considering flat ethernet cables for the EtherREGEN to keep it from moving around.  Congratulations on some really good experimentation.

[Bricki]

2 hours ago, rickca said:

I've actually been considering flat ethernet cables for the EtherREGEN to keep it from moving around.  Congratulations on some really good experimentation.

If some of your smaller components have a tendency to move around then grab some $5 1kg door stoppers and show those pesky fat cables who's boss. They're also a great conversation starter 🤣

This is an old pic of my system before the days of NUC. If you zoom in you can see the only thing I have in contact with the component chassis are very thin vibration dampening discs👍.