Article: Review | DenaFrips Pontus DAC

[JHG]

Nice review George!  Would you tell us what input on the Pontus you were using as well as the source?

Thanks,

Jim

[opus101]

A review well worth waiting for George, thanks. So to summarize what you're saying is this is a DAC which assists the listener to make sense of the recording. I completely get that - I like the 'I can parse what the bass player's doing....' (paraphrased), of the Yamaha - 'you can hear it but you can't make out the individual notes'.

[barrows]

3 hours ago, matthias said:

@alvin1118

Hi Alvin,

 

according to Denafrips specs the Pontus and Venus have an Amanero USB interface

and

Ares and both Terminators have the proprietary USB solution via STM32F446.

 

Can you please shed some light on these differences.

 

Thank you

 

Matt

Yes, please!  What is the status of these various different USB interfaces, and are they completely compatible with the various sources one might want to use, like linux based Renderers for instance with high rate PCM and DSD material.  Additionally, I would like some details of whether or not these different USB interfaces are galvanically isolated and then properly re-clocked before the conversion stage.

 

One other question for @alvin1118 : is the output level with DSD the same as it is with PCM with all the Denafrips DACs (@4.4 V for the XLR outputs)?

[bbosler]

I hear the concern about resistors drifting, but is that really an issue for .01% resistors that may drift at the same rate, if at all. don't know, just asking

[alvin1118]

6 hours ago, matthias said:

@alvin1118

Hi Alvin,

 

according to Denafrips specs the Pontus and Venus have an Amanero USB interface

and

Ares and both Terminators have the proprietary USB solution via STM32F446.

 

Can you please shed some light on these differences.

 

Thank you

 

Matt

 

Hey Matt,

 

All DENAFRIPS DACs are upgraded with the proprietary USB solution STM32F446 MCU.

Hope this helps!

 

Cheers,

Alvin

[alvin1118]

3 hours ago, barrows said:

Yes, please!  What is the status of these various different USB interfaces, and are they completely compatible with the various sources one might want to use, like linux based Renderers for instance with high rate PCM and DSD material.  Additionally, I would like some details of whether or not these different USB interfaces are galvanically isolated and then properly re-clocked before the conversion stage.

 

One other question for @alvin1118 : is the output level with DSD the same as it is with PCM with all the Denafrips DACs (@4.4 V for the XLR outputs)?

 

DENAFRIPS DACs come with the latest proprietary USB (STM32F446 MCU) solution.

All inputs are FIFO buffered and reclock, jitter rejection is great (excellent). 

 

DSD output level is lower than PCM by -6dB.

[alvin1118]

7 hours ago, PeterG said:

Thanks for the great review.  I bought my now upgraded Yggy soon after Chris's rave 5(?) years ago.  Maybe it's time for an upgrade?

 

One dilemma as I visit the website--there are no US dealers, and there are no returns allowed on direct purchases.  Is that correct?  Hard to imagine others dropping even larger dollars on Denafrips under those conditions.  Please advise

 

Yep, there is no US dealers. Our quasi-direct sales business model doesn't have enough margin to begin with, hence, it's not possible for us to have proper distribution network/dealership for that matter. Let alone the return policy. My apologies sir.

 

The good news is, we are lining up two potential service points in the USA (specifically, WA and SC) to provide repair / warranty services. We certainty hope this strengthen the confidence level of DENAFRIPS & Vinshine Audio products.

 

Cheers! 🙂

 

[feelingears]

1 hour ago, alvin1118 said:

 

DENAFRIPS DACs come with the latest proprietary USB (STM32F446 MCU) solution.

All inputs are FIFO buffered and reclock, jitter rejection is great (excellent). 

 

DSD output level is lower than PCM by -6dB.

 

Hi, Alvin1118

 

Just confirming that "all" Denafrips DACs have this USB input and reclocking? And specifically the Ares II as well?

 

I mainly use SPDIF anyway but am curious because I picked up a used Ares II from someone upgrading to Venus. Thanks.

[alvin1118]

25 minutes ago, feelingears said:

 

Hi, Alvin1118

 

Just confirming that "all" Denafrips DACs have this USB input and reclocking? And specifically the Ares II as well?

 

I mainly use SPDIF anyway but am curious because I picked up a used Ares II from someone upgrading to Venus. Thanks.

 

Hi sir,

 

That's right. All DENAFRIPS DACs have the STM32 MCU USB solution implemented, as well as FIFO buffer and reclocking of all digital inputs. 

 

Happy listening!

 

Alvin

[matthias]

1 hour ago, alvin1118 said:

All DENAFRIPS DACs have the STM32 MCU USB solution implemented, as well as FIFO buffer and reclocking of all digital inputs. 

 

Alvin,

if this is the case then DENAFRIPS should update their homepage 😀

 

Matt

[JoeWhip]

12 hours ago, gmgraves said:

I’ll rake your word for it that you find the Yiggy better. To me, the Yiggy is lacking in detail, has muddy low frequencies, strident in the highs, and have a rough, somewhat foggy sounding midrange (by comparison, of course). Maybe that kind of presentation is what constitutes real music to you. If so, more power to you!

Sorry my friend, I don’t hear that at all. No need to be condescending.

[57gold]

Love the sound of how this DAC sounds.  

 

Ditched my two box, 8 Siemens 6922 pre amp more than a decade ago when I hooked up a Wadia 861i to my amp, since then been using Mytek DACs with variable outputs.  

 

Any chance of a Denafrips model with built in attenuator to catch up with folks who have gone 100% digital and have no need for switching an extra circuitry of a preamp?

 

[ssh]

2 minutes ago, 57gold said:

Love the sound of how this DAC sounds.  

 

Ditched my two box, 8 Siemens 6922 pre amp more than a decade ago when I hooked up a Wadia 861i to my amp, since then been using Mytek DACs with variable outputs.  

 

Any chance of a Denafrips model with built in attenuator to catch up with folks who have gone 100% digital and have no need for switching an extra circuitry of a preamp?

 

The attenuator feature has this satisfied Yggy owner (original version, all three upgrades) looking at Bricasti's DACs.

[57gold]

Mentioned in another post that I find it odd that Schitt guys, who kind of invented the DAC with a built in Pre, the Theta DSPre, which apparently was less popular that the Pre less version because back in the 1990s many folks messed with vinyl and like me had fancy-assed pre amps.  Enjoyed my Gen Va with ATT glass connecting to one of their transports, prior to the Wadia, which made me a direct to amp convert.

 

[audiobomber]

16 hours ago, JoeWhip said:

We all hear differently. I have not heard this DAC but have heard the Terminator against an Yggy 2 in the same system and with PCM only obviously.  The Yggy sounded better. Of course, YMMV.

Yes, we all different in our hearing sensitivities, experiences, sonic preferences, even personality. Not to mention different audio system goals, gear choices and rooms. Clearly this DAC hits the right spot for gmgraves, but from a previous discussion I know we do not have coincident tastes in audio reproduction. 

 

I'm a fan of rock and jazz. I have several requirements for gear in my system, but my main priority is PRaT, which IME requires fast attack and decay, punchy transients. Lots of musical drive, even for ballads, maybe especially for ballads. The quotes below are from a favourable review of the Venus, the model above the Pontus. These descriptors tell me I would very likely not be happy with a Denafrips DAC:

 

"If someone likes attack, excitement, unrestrained energy, they should look for something different, the Venus MkII is not for them."

 

"Listen to, for example, the new Hottie & The Blowfish album titled Imperfect Cyrcle, also available in Tidal in MQA 24/96, and you'll see what I'm talking about. This is music that should push forward, excite, set the rhythm of the posts by the road moving behind the truck window. The tested DAC will not do that. It is simply intended for something else. For example, for jazz music."

 

"And the Denafrips converter is perfect in what it does. It offers beautiful colors and great resolution. However, it is not very selective and has no clearly defined bass attack. Space for it is only a background for instruments that are large, firm and tangible. So it's a specialized product. Powerful rock, country, rap, hip-hop - all these recordings will be smoothed and sound "polite". But all the rest will sound great."

 

https://www.denafrips.com/single-post/2020/02/09/high-fidelity-review-venus-dac

[matthias]

16 minutes ago, audiobomber said:

I'm a fan of rock and jazz. I have several requirements for gear in my system, but my main priority is PRaT, which IME requires fast attack and decay, punchy transients. Lots of musical drive, even for ballads, maybe especially for ballads. 

 

Exactly my preferences as well.

Yesterday I read the complete review on the Highfidelity page:

 

http://highfidelity.pl/@main-968&lang=en

 

If Highfidelity is right and the signature of all Denafrips DACs is similar then these DACs are not for me.

 

Matt

 

[barrows]

1 hour ago, ssh said:

The attenuator feature has this satisfied Yggy owner (original version, all three upgrades) looking at Bricasti's DACs.

The Denafrips DACs appear to have no output stage to drive the output, hence their slightly high output impedance (see specifications).  Considering that, and the somewhat low output level with DSD at half that of the PCM outputs, I do not see these DACs as good choices for driving amplifiers directly.  For driving amplifiers directly I like to see an output impedance around 100 ohms or less.

It appears Denafrips would need to add an active output stage and an analog attenuator to really do a good job at making them highly capable of driving amplifiers directly, this would add considerably to the price.

Additionally, this lack of an active output stage may have something to do with the lack of "drive" which some people seem to find in the sound of these DACs.  One might consider Holo Audio as an alternative, they use similar conversion technology, but with the addition of a fairly serious active output stage.

 

I am loving my Bricasti M3, using only its discrete converter stage (at DSD 256) and driving my amplifiers directly.  It has a quite good analog volume control as well, making it highly suitable for this approach.

[Blake]

Yes, I read that review as well, and I am sitting here listening to my Venus 2 and thinking....  wow, we must have radically different ears/brain/system, or something else.   All good though, there is no one DAC that will satisfy everyone.  But, that is not at all how the Denafrips DAC's I have owned sound like.  If they did, I would have quickly sold my first Denafrips DAC and never considered them again.  I love speed, fast transients, etc.

 

 

[matthias]

4 minutes ago, Blake said:

Yes, I read that review as well, and I am sitting here listening to my Venus 2 and thinking....  wow, we must have radically different ears/brain/system, or something else.   All good though, there is no one DAC that will satisfy everyone.  But, that is not at all how the Denafrips DAC's I have owned sound like.  If they did, I would have quickly sold my first Denafrips DAC and never considered them again.  I love speed, fast transients, etc.

 

Blake,

did you compare Venus2 and Terminator Plus both in your "Home" system?

If yes, what are the differences?

Thanks

 

Matt

[skatbelt]

3 hours ago, JoeWhip said:

Sorry my friend, I don’t hear that at all. No need to be condescending.

 

While I more or less agree with the content, it is indeed a condescending response.

 

The bold 'from memory' statement about a comparison with the Vivaldi and MSB DAC also makes that I cannot take this review and it's conclusions very serious. Too bad and not at all necessary to convey enthusiasm.

 

[orosie]

3 hours ago, JoeWhip said:

Sorry my friend, I don’t hear that at all. No need to be condescending.

LOL....people can be so fragile these days.

[Blake]

42 minutes ago, matthias said:

 

Blake,

did you compare Venus2 and Terminator Plus both in your "Home" system?

If yes, what are the differences?

Thanks

 

Matt

 

Hey Matt,

 

Venus 2 arrived two weeks ago and it is residing in my new "work from home" home office, which includes a super nice audio rack ($35 from Amazon).  I haven't had a chance to compare yet.

 

 

[matthias]

Thanks, @Blake

nice picture 🙂

 

Matt

 

[jacquesr]

Which album were you referring to in this review. Thank you.

[powermatic]

3 hours ago, audiobomber said:

 

 

"Listen to, for example, the new Hottie & The Blowfish album titled Imperfect Cyrcle, also available in Tidal in MQA 24/96, and you'll see what I'm talking about. 

I was really, really hoping there was a band out there called 'Hottie & The Blowfish', because that would just be great. Sadly, no, just a typo. I was then willing to give "Hootie" a bit of credit for the album title, but nope, another error. Back to normalcy.