Forum Rules Suggestion

[manisandher]

10 minutes ago, mansr said:

AudioQuest.

 

I know nothing about AudioQuest, other than owning the original Dragonfly, which I think is OK for the price. There is no doubt in my mind that charlatans exist in the audio cable industry. BUT... it doesn't follow that all audio cable companies are charlatans.

 

Mani.

[manisandher]

7 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

The problems, challenges and money are elsewhere.

 

I don't consider that sufficient evidence for your assertion. Now, had you merely speculated, that would have been different.

 

Mani.

[Rt66indierock]

2 minutes ago, manisandher said:

 

I don't consider that sufficient evidence for your assertion. Now, had you merely speculated, that would have been different.

 

Mani.

 

My golfing buddies at Intel were some of the guys who created the USB and Ethernet standards and love music. The people at AT&T move music around and love music. The glib answer is show me someone in high end audio other than Paul Klipsch who put two commas worth of income on a tax return.

[esldude]

10 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

My golfing buddies at Intel were some of the guys who created the USB and Ethernet standards and love music. The people at AT&T move music around and love music. The glib answer is show me someone in high end audio other than Paul Klipsch who put two commas worth of income on a tax return.

Next time you talk to your buddies who created USB standards can you tell them to stop being blooming idiots on the naming conventions of USB.  Stupid names, stupid changes in standards, and retro-actively renaming prior versions.  How can otherwise intelligent people be so STUPID.  USB had come close to being a reliable universal connection with all sorts of things.  It may get back to it, but they sure are trying hard to prevent it so it seems.  You nearly need detailed knowledge of both pieces of gear to know how it will work the way things are currently.  

[rando]

21 hours ago, rando said:

So go there to talk about increasingly demonstrate the futility of infighting surrounding cables.  

 

I seriously doubt there are enough members here concerned about seriously examining the merits witnessing more flesh stripped because of cables in the current retail environment prevailing air of open hostility infecting the gear forums.

 

Because obviously attempts at humorous deflection of the ugly truth are disagreeable.  

 

[wgscott]

The thing about humor is that it is supposed to be funny.

[mansr]

6 minutes ago, wgscott said:

The thing about humor is that it is supposed to be funny.

The funny thing about supposed humour is that it often isn't.

[manisandher]

27 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

My golfing buddies at Intel were some of the guys who created the USB and Ethernet standards and love music. The people at AT&T move music around and love music.

 

I'm sure they're all very impressive in their respective fields. But it doesn't prove that no audio cable company has people of the same calibre.

 

27 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

The glib answer is show me someone in high end audio other than Paul Klipsch who put two commas worth of income on a tax return.

 

Well, being brilliant in your field doesn't necessarily mean you're great at business - someone like Pat Di Giacomo springs to mind (no offense to Pat).

 

What about someone like Nelson Pass for someone in high end audio who has "put two commas worth of income on a tax return"?

 

Mani.

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 hours ago, manisandher said:

 

In a word, frustration.

 

But I see this from both perspectives. When someone tells you that you cannot have an opinion unless you've heard their 'horse-hair covered, pure-gold conductor' interconnects in person, I can see why you (or anyone of a rational bent) would get frustrated. Conversely, when someone says that they hear differences between cables (that all cost the same modest amount) and are told that they must be imagining the differences, I can see why they get frustrated.

 

I've experienced both camps myself many times.

 

But there's still no excuse for being rude (something else I've been guilty of on occasion).

 

Mani.

Well stated. 

[mansr]

54 minutes ago, manisandher said:

I know nothing about AudioQuest, other than owning the original Dragonfly, which I think is OK for the price. There is no doubt in my mind that charlatans exist in the audio cable industry. BUT... it doesn't follow that all audio cable companies are charlatans.

Many cable applications are far more challenging than audio. Therefore, a company making exclusively audio cables probably isn't at the top of the cable game. They simply don't need to be, even if their products are perfectly good. If a company claims otherwise, they are likely charlatans.

[BrokeLinuxPhile]

Larry Ho comes immediately to mind as being smart but clueless at business. 

 

There's also plenty of dumbass fortune 500 CEO's out there.  Years back we had to politely prove wrong a CEO at a major tier 1 US telecom.  He demanded we remove the UDP protocol entirely from our platform, one of his managers told him the "U" stood for "unreliable".  Took us a full week of audio bridges to get him to change his mind.

[mansr]

2 minutes ago, BrokeLinuxPhile said:

Larry Ho comes immediately to mind as being smart but clueless at business.

He comes to mind, foremost, as a fraudster.

[manisandher]

11 minutes ago, mansr said:

Many cable applications are far more challenging than audio.

 

IMO, we don't know all the challenges audio presents for cables. Why do I think this? Because cables sound different... when they shouldn't, according to our current understanding.

 

The same could be said for USB audio.

 

11 minutes ago, mansr said:

Therefore, a company making exclusively audio cables probably isn't at the top of the cable game. They simply don't need to be, even if their products are perfectly good. If a company claims otherwise, they are likely charlatans.

 

I find that an incredibly limiting belief. But you've every right to hold it, of course.

 

(Can I just say for the record that I can't stand the fact that analogue and digital cables sound different. I absolutely hate it.)

 

Mani.

[mansr]

4 minutes ago, manisandher said:

IMO, we don't know all the challenges audio presents for cables. Why do I think this? Because cables sound different... when they shouldn't, according to our current understanding.

Where are the studies in support of this?

[BrokeLinuxPhile]

4 minutes ago, mansr said:

He comes to mind, foremost, as a fraudster.

 

Very true.  I wasn't directly involved in any of that, so my opinion isn't as strong.

 

People like him make free expression about products/companies all that more important IMO.  Creating safe zones where people can't dissect products/companies/individuals/claims creates more problems that it solves in this industry.

[manisandher]

1 minute ago, mansr said:

Where are the studies in support of this?

 

I don't need studies to know that cables sound different to me. (I suspect there are many people here who share this sentiment.)

 

I could be imaging it. Yet, all the expensive cables I own (bought before the kids came along) sit boxed up in my basement. They simply don't sound as good as the much cheaper cables I currently use. The same is true of the amps I own, and a whole bunch of USB cables.

 

This expectation bias malarkey is a really, really strange thing.

 

Mani.

[Rt66indierock]

18 minutes ago, manisandher said:

 

I'm sure they're all very impressive in their respective fields. But it doesn't prove that no audio cable company has people of the same calibre.

 

 

Well, being brilliant in your field doesn't necessarily mean you're great at business - someone like Pat Di Giacomo springs to mind (no offense to Pat).

 

What about someone like Nelson Pass for someone in high end audio who has "put two commas worth of income on a tax return"?

 

Mani.

 

Mani who can I meet at T.H.E. Show 18 or RMAF 18 that would be of the  same caliber as the people I go to? I haven't met  any at the Los Angeles shows or RMAF 16 and 17. 

 

And yes I understand your point about brilliance, my grandfather is in the Water Works Hall of Fame and the people of Chicago were grateful for clean drinking water.

 

And I'm talking about a million dollars of wages, partnership and/or S Corp earnings. Did Nelson Pass  have income like that?

[manisandher]

3 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

Mani who can I meet at T.H.E. Show 18 or RMAF 18 that would be of the  same caliber as the people I go to? I haven't met  any at the Los Angeles shows or RMAF 16 and 17.

 

Try Munich High End instead 😉

 

3 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

And I'm talking about a million dollars of wages, partnership and/or S Corp earnings.

 

My understanding is that the correlation between IQ and earnings is ~ 0.3; conscientiousness and earnings is ~0.2. So what, 75% accounted for by other factors?

 

Mani.

[Paul R]

2 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Sorry but the top cable guys aren't in high end audio. If I need information about wire the first place I go is AT&T. For USB and Ethernet, I look up some old golfing buddies at Intel.

 

AT&T for cabling?  You do know they subcontract out almost all the cable work these days, as does every other major telecom provider. And Bell Labs was a sad victim of Judge Green. No help there.

 

For practical purposes in audio, the cable guys are experts. They may not always have the chops to explain what they have empirically discovered, but then, neither did Edison. 

 

Nordost, Kimber, and some other cable companies all know cables dead cold. They have marketeers who can make your stomach turn flips, but the engineering and science guys they have on staff or as consultants really do know their stuff. 

 

If you really want to know about cables, talk to the Cable Company in Paoli, PA. They really know their stuff, both in theory and practice. They don't talk down to people either. Plus, they have good contacts with pretty much all the people who make and design all sorts of cables. 

 

-Paul 

 

[pkane2001]

12 minutes ago, manisandher said:

My understanding is that the correlation between IQ and earnings is ~ 0.3; conscientiousness and earnings is ~0.2. So what, 75% accounted for by other factors?

 

75% = skill in bending the truth

[Paul R]

1 hour ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

My golfing buddies at Intel were some of the guys who created the USB and Ethernet standards and love music. The people at AT&T move music around and love music. The glib answer is show me someone in high end audio other than Paul Klipsch who put two commas worth of income on a tax return.

 

Umm- Ethernet came out of Xerox/Parc, one of the few actual competitors to Bell Labs. I don't remember much, actually *any* credit to Intel for that development.

 

USB came much later, in the 1990s. Ajay Bhatt - at Intel - had everything to do with that. 

 

-Paul 

 

[Paul R]

20 minutes ago, manisandher said:

 

Try Munich High End instead 😉

 

 

My understanding is that the correlation between IQ and earnings is ~ 0.3; conscientiousness and earnings is ~0.2. So what, 75% accounted for by other factors?

 

Mani.

 

Well, a very good friend of mine who was very well connected with the academia types who argued IQ and such incessentaly, said success all came down to one thing.

 

Stubborness.

 

(Or "persistence" if you want to be politically correct, which he never saw a reason to be.) 

 

[mansr]

18 minutes ago, Paul R said:

Nordost, Kimber, and some other cable companies all know cables dead cold. They have marketeers who can make your stomach turn flips, but the engineering and science guys they have on staff or as consultants really do know their stuff. 

Are you on some kind of mission to defend all those who cannot or should not be defended?

[Dutch]

1 hour ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Mani who can I meet at T.H.E. Show 18 or RMAF 18 that would be of the  same caliber as the people I go to? I haven't met  any at the Los Angeles shows or RMAF 16 and 17. 

 

And yes I understand your point about brilliance, my grandfather is in the Water Works Hall of Fame and the people of Chicago were grateful for clean drinking water.

 

And I'm talking about a million dollars of wages, partnership and/or S Corp earnings. Did Nelson Pass  have income like that?

 

I’m curious, who do you call or go see at the golf track when you need a new toothbrush? 

[Dutch]

53 minutes ago, mansr said:

Are you on some kind of mission to defend all those who cannot or should not be defended?

 

What’s your mission?