ISO Regen performance Improvement Cheap!

[mansr]

11 minutes ago, Cornan said:

I does’nt work like that with capacitors in series. The total circuit capacitance of any number of capacitors connected together in series will always be less than the value of the smallest capacitor in the series. Using for example three capacitors is series will effectively isolate the capacitor in the middle. ?

But these ones are not in series.

[BigGuy]

5 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

I does’nt work like that with capacitors in series. The total circuit capacitance of any number of capacitors connected together in series will always be less than the value of the smallest capacitor in the series.

Then I am missing something...

 

If the leads of one Kemet are connected to V+ and V- at the target end of the wires connecting the regulator to the barrel connector AND the equivalent leads of the second Kemet are also connected to the V+ and V- at the other ends of the wires, is that not parallel?

 

Is this not how the Kemets are wired...

https://www.coilgun.info/theorycapacitors/capacitors2.htm

[Cornan]

1 minute ago, mansr said:

But these ones are not in series.

 

Actually, thinking about i they are both series and parallel right?

[mansr]

Just now, Cornan said:

Actually, thinking about i they are both series and parallel right?

They are in parallel, albeit with a long connecting wire.

[Cornan]

2 minutes ago, BigGuy said:

Then I am missing something...

 

If the leads of one Kemet are connected to V+ and V- at the target end of the wires connecting the regulator to the barrel connector AND the equivalent leads of the second Kemet are also connected to the V+ and V- at the other ends of the wires, is that not parallel?

 

Is this not how the Kemets are wired...

https://www.coilgun.info/theorycapacitors/capacitors2.htm

 

Sorry, my misstake....but I wonder if they are not both?

[Cornan]

1 minute ago, mansr said:

They are in parallel, albeit with a long connecting wire.

 

OK, my bad then. Sorry! But this makes me wonder if I should’nt try the Kemets in series as well in the DC cable? ?

[charlesphoto]

9 hours ago, sandyk said:

 

Any animals in the house ?

 It is also likely to work a little better again with the Kemets either end moved to inside the devices, especially the output end.

 

Only a fourteen year old 110 lb lab mix. He’s never shown any interest in the hifi for some reason.  

 

Keep in mind this is low voltage dc. If it was ac I would be worried about safety too. 

[mansr]

1 minute ago, Cornan said:

OK, my bad then. Sorry! But this makes me wonder if I should’nt try the Kemets in series as well in the DC cable? ?

In series how? And for what purpose?

[Cornan]

6 minutes ago, mansr said:

In series how? And for what purpose?

 

Is it not possible you mean? Series should mean additional of 4 Kemets (2 on each side) soldered to the parallel legs of my current inline Kemets. Reason= isolation.

[mansr]

4 minutes ago, Cornan said:

Is it not possible you mean? Series should mean additional of 4 Kemets (2 on each side) soldered to the parallel legs of my current inline Kemets. Reason= isolation.

Two equal capacitors in series are equivalent to a single capacitor with half the capacitance, twice the voltage rating, and twice the ESR.

[Cornan]

Just now, mansr said:

Two equal capacitors in series are equivalent to a single capacitor with half the capacitance, twice the voltage rating, and twice the ESR.

 

Thanks! I read this causion on the link @BigGuy posted, so I’ll guess it is better to use them in parallel only.

 

Worse yet, if one capacitor is slightly leaky, it will gradually transfer its voltage to the others, possibly exceeding their voltage rating in turn. And if one of them punches through its dielectric barrier, it can then damage others in a cascading fashion. This is why series capacitors are generally avoided in power circuits.

[BigGuy]

I found these 2 articles on PS filtering but discussion bit (OK, a lot) over my head...

 

http://www.skillbank.co.uk/psu/smoothing.htm

 

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/21686/whats-the-purpose-of-two-capacitors-in-parallel

 

Looks a bit more complicated than just putting in a cap but maybe there is a value that covers a multitude of applications given that we are generally dealing with low V and A?!

[Abtr]

14 hours ago, sandyk said:

...

If you will be often removing and reinserting the lead(s) with prototype equipment, then lightly tin the leads after twisting them tightly before reinsertion

...

Why do you insist on tinning the leads? Are you trolling? People should *never* apply solder in any way to the leads when using screw connectors. As I said multiple times by now, tinned wire strands will give way to the pressure of the screw and become loose. I know this from personal experience. Prototype equipment or not, tinning wire when using screw connectors is *asking for a problem*. Just don't do it, regardless what @sandyk says.

[austinpop]

My last Circuits class was over 30 years ago, but wouldn’t a capacitor in series block DC?

 

Not a desirable attribute in a DC cable!

[mansr]

18 minutes ago, austinpop said:

My last Circuits class was over 30 years ago, but wouldn’t a capacitor in series block DC?

 

Not a desirable attribute in a DC cable!

You remember correctly.

[Cornan]

As they say. The best cable is no cable! Capacitors in series is pretty close then! ?

 

[Cornan]

I hoped to get this little idea together today, but I realized that I most likely have run out of DC2.1/5.5mm male screw terminal plugs! ?

 

 

This drawn by hand on Bamboo paper (on iPad mini) so do not mind the art! ? 

It is two Kemet’s in parallel with their legs soldered together and inserted into a DC socket on one side (F=female) and DC plug in the other side (M=male). I think this would could be quite interesting since I can try it on any DC cable. First I have to order more DC plugs though. 

[charlesphoto]

Well, that’s why I’m thinking of what I’ve created as more of a hard connecter than a cable. DC Frankenconnect. And if I had to do it over again I would use 14awg instead of 12, and maybe even stranded vs solid. Haven’t had a chance to listen this morning after running in all night - too much World Cup action going on this morning. 

[Ralf11]

Back to the cable and several caps laid out in a series along it, but which are electrically in parallel...

 

You mentioned it was hard to build:

 

I think a jig could be made to hold everything in position and make soldering easy.  That jig could then be give (or sold if you're into markets) to the next guy.

 

Or those interested could perhaps get a specialty pcb run made ... the traces could take the place of most of  the wire, and the caps could just drop in.

[paulkouhan]

Several capacitor in parallel will reduce ESR !

[sandyk]

4 hours ago, Abtr said:

Why do you insist on tinning the leads? Are you trolling? People should *never* apply solder in any way to the leads when using screw connectors. As I said multiple times by now, tinned wire strands will give way to the pressure of the screw and become loose. I know this from personal experience. Prototype equipment or not, tinning wire when using screw connectors is *asking for a problem*. Just don't do it, regardless what @sandyk says.

 

In case you didn't notice, I was VERY specific with my wording. As a poster in the other forum thread also reported , a single loose strand due to repeated disconnections and reinsertions can severely damage a working project.

 There are also times when you may need to also insert a much thinner wire into the same supply rail terminal , such as when fitting a front panel LED. It is damn hard to fit this in without tinning the much thinner wire first.

I did NOT recommend doing this procedure for a project that didn't need to have the PCB removed numerous times

for various modifications.

It's your choice with a Work in Progress. A screw that needs to be retightened occasionally, or a severely damaged PCB that may need to be replaced !!!   Like the poster in the other forum, I have had this happen to me too.

[Superdad]

I am SO glad I had Chris move this thread out of the UpTone sponsored area where someone had started it.  Much stumbling about and numerous bizarre and misguided notions. Don’t know where to begin.  You’ll notice that John has steered clear too. 

Sorry guys...

[mansr]

1 minute ago, Superdad said:

I am SO glad I had Chris move this thread out of the UpTone sponsored area where someone had started it.  Much stumbling about and numerous bizarre and misguided notions. Don’t know where to begin.  You’ll notice that John has steered clear too. 

Sorry guys...

It is entertaining, if nothing else.

[look&listen]

6 hours ago, Abtr said:

tinned wire strands will give way to the pressure of the screw and become loose

 

2 hours ago, sandyk said:

A screw that needs to be retightened occasionally, or a severely damaged PCB that may need to be replaced

Soft metals (Cu, Sn, Pb, &c.) will 'creep' under pressure, like screw. Maybe little, maybe more, both copper & solder. So not really about one metal or other. Good procedure can mitigate problem. First tighten screw tight, but not to tight (must balance effective connection & stress/failure). Put in operation for some time, weeks maybe. Then retighten screws & take up slack for any creep (if any felt). Rare to progress further unless maybe bad conditions, heat, vibration. Also rare, but possible, for untreated connection metal creep cause disconnects, shorts, other serious problems.

Also, not worth off topic argument!

 

Better to eliminate more connections (less is more) unless just for temporary troubleshoot or experiment uses. Think of every discontinuity in circuit metal path.

From transistor silicon to whisker,

to lead wire,

to solder in thru-hole,

to trace copper,

to solder in thru-hole,

to Cu wire,

to solder connection,

to nickel plating,

to brass pin,

to gold plating,

touching gold plating,

to brass pin,

to solder connection,

to copper wire,

to solder,

to d, e, f, g, &c. 

and so-on.

 

Look at personal audio system gear and cables. Start from home AC box, on to speakers. Think about all connections inside component boxes & cables & connectors. Take some apart to see parts. Try understand audio circuit in some reality & detail.

Maybe learn little wonder & humility along with complex circuit path ?

 

[charlesphoto]

Down in the office having a listen to my test album, Ahmad's Blues by Ahmad Jamal and blown away by the fruits of my creation after 24 hours of burn in. 1:30 minutes into the title track, there's a very long high note piano roll. It's always sounded like anything from a smeary trebly mess to okay. Now it sounds like an actual piano being played and one can easily distinguish each very fast key being struck. And this long time tinnitus sufferer can actually begin to tolerate the trumpet - don't get me wrong I listen mostly to jazz and think Davis, Hubbard etc are brilliant, but often it's an uncomfortable listen. Will be interesting to see a couple hundred hours from now how/if the sound changes.

 

And yeah, lets keep this fun. We're not repairing mission critical gear here. To tin or not to tin won't make that much of a difference on a dc supply I wouldn't think.