ISO Regen performance Improvement Cheap!

[sandyk]

5 hours ago, charlesphoto said:

 

I’m sure you are correct. My point is we don’t need to take this so seriously. Thanks for proving my point.

 

 How many times do I need to repeat this ?

 I said with Prototypes that are continually being connected/disconnected !!!

The prototype shown in the photo had it's output devices destroyed due to a single strand of loose wire in the active side of the Output terminals. The PCB design had too small copper lands, and a couple of traces were destroyed during repairs and needed a couple of short wire links to repair the damage.

[Abtr]

5 hours ago, charlesphoto said:

Because it's a hobby, and no one is being torn away from their families and locked up in cages. Also, like I said before, if we were discussing ac cabling and supply that would be a different matter regarding safety. Certainly any advice is great to have and taken on board by all who come here, so thank you for that. Just chill on the tone and trolling accusations - it's not helpful or needed. 

In case you didn't notice, most participants in this thread take DC cables very seriously. Not that their lives depend on it, but that's just your personal definition of 'serious'. And I didn't say a word about possible safety issues, that's all in your own head. Now, if DC cable topology and/or used dielectrics can make a significant SQ difference, then imagine what a bad connection could do. So I simply made a reasonable statement and tried to warn against a common and serious (SQ-wise) mistake: tinning wires when using screw connectors; only to hear you reply that "it won't make that much of a difference on a DC supply". You think that's a proper helpful response? I call that trolling.

[charlesphoto]

Ok. I forgot just how mission critical home hifi is to some. I stand corrected and will let you and others carry on. Done with this thread - I’ll go “troll” with Cornan over on the experimental thread. And listen to some glorious sound with my dangerous, improperly made cables. 

[Ralf11]

He's right about the possible damage form stray or loose strands.  And it is hard to get them all.

 

A slight bit of tinning won't cause nearly as much damage (if any).

 

If you are tinning-phobic then use spring clips to secure the tinned ends (!!)

[charlesphoto]

35 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

 How many times do I need to repeat this ?

 I said with Prototypes that are continually being connected/disconnected !!!

The prototype shown in the photo had it's output devices destroyed due to a single strand of loose wire in the active side of the Output terminals. The PCB design had too small copper lands, and a couple of traces were destroyed during repairs and needed a couple of short wire links to repair the damage.

 

 

 So which is it? Tin or not tin? Since it seems there can be no consensus as to which is best or safest that’s why I said maybe we should all just chill and not take either “side” so seriously as there’s always more than one way to approach just about anything. 

[Abtr]

14 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

He's right about the possible damage form stray or loose strands.  And it is hard to get them all.

We are talking about a one time build of a (hopefully) good quality DC power cable. And if a strand makes a short then the power supply fuse will blow, that's all.

[Abtr]

33 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

So which is it? Tin or not tin? Since it seems there can be no consensus as to which is best or safest that’s why I said maybe we should all just chill and not take either “side” so seriously as there’s always more than one way to approach just about anything. 

Not tin. To obtain a high quality screw connection there is only one optimum connection method: tightly twist the bare strands of the wire, insert it and tightly secure the screw. This is an excellent non-degrading connection even suitable for high voltage (AC) applications.

[sandyk]

3 hours ago, charlesphoto said:

 

 

 So which is it? Tin or not tin? Since it seems there can be no consensus as to which is best or safest that’s why I said maybe we should all just chill and not take either “side” so seriously as there’s always more than one way to approach just about anything. 

You don't normally need to tin the leads unless you keep pulling the PCB out. Just make sure the strands of wire are shiny and well twisted.With heavier speaker cables it can be worthwhile just tinning the cut end.

Solder , especially the 60/40 variety favoured by most hobbyists   does add some additional resistance, so when finalising the project you may wish to reterminate the leads without using solder.

[sandyk]

3 hours ago, Abtr said:

We are talking about a one time build of a (hopefully) good quality DC power cable. And if a strand makes a short then the power supply fuse will blow, that's all.

Fuses have a delay time.

Ask the member who posts the photos of his repair jobs if the correctly rated fuse ALWAYS protects semiconductors !

[marce]

On 7/1/2018 at 11:08 AM, AnotherSpin said:

Many years ago I purchased my first speaker cables. Before that I had no idea cable would make a difference in SQ. So, I carefully cut my first dedicated cable (it was multi-braid type from Mission) into two required pieces, tinned the ends and connected speakers to amp. Well, the sound was not good. Do not remember what was particularly wrong, but it was not good. My friend came the same day and I told him about the issue – my new quality audio cable sound worse than cheap electric cable I used before. He removed cable, cut the tinned ends, and inserted back. The SQ was better beyond comparison. It was my first introduction to "tin or not to tin" dilemma.

!!!!! better remove the solder from all the components in your amp etc. then!

[jabbr]

9 minutes ago, marce said:

!!!!! better remove the solder from all the components in your amp etc. then!

Back to point to point wired tube amps! ?

[Abtr]

48 minutes ago, marce said:

!!!!! better remove the solder from all the components in your amp etc. then!

The point is that first tinning a wire and then connect it in some kind of screw connector (e.g., the output connectors at the back of an amp) is a bad electrical connection that will come loose. Must I really explain this again for you? Don't you understand this is different from soldered connections on a PCB?

[AnotherSpin]

1 hour ago, marce said:

!!!!! better remove the solder from all the components in your amp etc. then!

 

I appreciate your most valuable recommendation. I guess you solder cables to speakers, right?

[marce]

1 hour ago, Abtr said:

The point is that first tinning a wire and then connect it in some kind of screw connector (e.g., the output connectors at the back of an amp) is a bad electrical connection that will come loose. Must I really explain this again for you? Don't you understand this is different from soldered connections on a PCB?

What are you going on about... Cut your patronising attitude for a start, the comment was in reference to AnotherSpins comment about tinned copper wires causing the sound to be bad, it was a slight dig as I cannot see how a bit of tinning would make the sound so bad.

And yes I do know just as well as you what a PCB soldered joint is and what a screw connection is, if not more so.

As to tinning the go to specs on this would be the IPC specs and guides:

IPC-J-STD-001 Rev E says...

https://www.ipc.org/4.0_Knowledge/4.1_Standards/IPC-J-STD-001ES.pdf

 

Section 5.1.3

 

[marce]

25 minutes ago, AnotherSpin said:

 

I appreciate your most valuable recommendation. I guess you solder cables to speakers, right?

Sorry I just cant see how a bit of tinning would make that much difference to the sound...

[marce]

2 hours ago, jabbr said:

Back to point to point wired tube amps! ?

As long as it isn't tinned...?

[marce]

As to tinning in general, for domestic low vibration environment, it wont make that much difference, I have done it for convenience like Sandy K, it is done within the electronic/electrical industry, my preference is a boot ferrule for my own stuff, but as said for DIY its no great issue just don't have your assemblies inspected to IPC-A-610 otherwise they will fail!!!!!?

[Abtr]

36 minutes ago, marce said:

What are you going on about... Cut your patronising attitude for a start, the comment was in reference to AnotherSpins comment about tinned copper wires causing the sound to be bad, it was a slight dig as I cannot see how a bit of tinning would make the sound so bad.

...

Sorry, it must be my frustration about not being able to get this simple concept across to even people like you with lots of hands-on experience (though maybe less experience with screw connections). One more time: *When using screw connectors, tinned wire strands will give way to the pressure of the screw and become loose.* Such a connection is almost guaranteed to degrade and must be re-tightened many times before it finally settles. Even when tinned very lightly, why take the risk? Note that many people here use screw connections to the terminal plugs of their DIY DC cables and apparently are unaware of this pitfall.

[AnotherSpin]

33 minutes ago, marce said:

Sorry I just cant see how a bit of tinning would make that much difference to the sound...

 

I have no explanation, and my knowledge of all thing electric is almost none. I just telling a case from my personal experience. The difference between tinned and not tinned was apparent. 

[marce]

32 minutes ago, Abtr said:

Sorry, it must be my frustration about not being able to get this simple concept across to even people like you with lots of hands-on experience (though maybe less experience with screw connections). One more time: *When using screw connectors, tinned wire strands will give way to the pressure of the screw and become loose.* Such a connection is almost guaranteed to degrade and must be re-tightened many times before it finally settles. Even when tinned very lightly, why take the risk? Note that many people here use screw connections to the terminal plugs of their DIY DC cables and apparently are unaware of this pitfall.

As said I don't do it for proper work, but when messing around at home I will often tin the wires to stop it all fraying, when doing a permanent connection with stranded wire I will use a boot ferrule.

[rah50]

Back to how the Kemets sound!

 

I reported Friday that my first Kemets added to the LT3045's in my HDplex>Supra Cat8>LT3045s>microRendu were a VERY NICE!

 

2nd pair added to my LPS1.2>Supra Cat8>ultraDigital were a WOW!

 

3rd pair added to my LPS1>Supra Cat8> ISO Regen were icing on the cake, removing the last smidgen of anything you could consider hard or unwanted.

 

This has been the best $20 ever spent on my system. Just a huge improvement in presence, weight, low end detail  especially and dynamics.

 

Big shout out to Cornan! THANKS!

 

Next will maybe replacing the Supra cat8 with Gotham Ultra Pro, maybe doubled?

 

Also no soldering, just bending the Kemet's leads 90 degrees and inserting them into the screw-on's along with the Cat8 wire and tightening down. 

[jabbr]

1 hour ago, marce said:

As said I don't do it for proper work, but when messing around at home I will often tin the wires to stop it all fraying, when doing a permanent connection with stranded wire I will use a boot ferrule.

Ah but do you get better SQ with quad or hex crimp? or audiophile decacrimp? Pure silver boots?

[Abtr]

1 hour ago, marce said:

As said I don't do it for proper work, but when messing around at home I will often tin the wires to stop it all fraying, when doing a permanent connection with stranded wire I will use a boot ferrule.

Right, and also with a boot ferrule I wouldn't tin the wire strands. I hope this can be the last words said about the subject.

[charlesphoto]

“Aye, ‘tis nobler in the sound to tin or not to tin, or to suffer the slings and arrows of the internet forums, that is the question.”

 

 

 

 

[charlesphoto]

Or as Fleetwood Mac so aptly put it:

 

”go your own way”