ISO Regen performance Improvement Cheap!

[sandyk]

43 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

This indeed happens with the quite small DC screw terminals. But there is an easy way to deal with it. Snip the end of the stranded wire off and peel the insulation off again. New peeled off stranded wire (not twisted) is always easier to insert into tiny screw terminal blocks. 

 

 I have already suggested doing that several times. However , you may end up with a lead that is a little too short if you aren't careful.

The tighter the twist, the easier it is to get into a small screw hole without any stray strands of wire sticking out.

 Perhaps the stranded leads you are using aren't as thick as they could be ?

Don't forget to fully open  the hole again as I previously suggested, to reduce this risk. The piece of metal that clamps down on the wire does not return to where it was when new, due to the type of cheap metal used, and the construction method used in most small terminal blocks.

[marce]

15 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

http://products.mill-max.com/pogo-pins/?keyword=electrical spring contacts&creative=265921212857&gclid=CjwKCAjwmufZBRBJEiwAPJ3Lpk9zNXCdoo--tKCBH13lxsCUXZiIgOsf2UQIrBoGMLBYblt9bcxKoBoCz_wQAvD_BwE

Thank you, I needed to look them things up today, saved me some effort.  Itsn either them or hypertac connectors for some DC interconnections between boards.

[John769]

16 hours ago, Cornan said:

In some spots a 0.5- 1A LT3045 device followed by a 5A LT3045 surpass two 5A in series. Don’t ask me why, but it does IRL.

Interesting! So could you use a 0.5A-1A LT3045 followed by a 5A LS-HPULN for the Brooklyn or must both of them be above the Brooklyn's amp draw of a little below 1.5A?  I guess not but just checking..

[bit01]

On ‎6‎/‎28‎/‎2018 at 7:17 PM, fas42 said:

 

Any connection that relies on tightness of screws to maintain electrical integrity is a major weakness, if you're after optimum audio quality. The metal to metal contact has to be made truly gas tight, either by soldering or using silver type greases - nominal gas tightness is not good enough!

 

Every system I have ever been involved with has always benefited from taking this seriously ...

 

On ‎6‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 3:33 AM, AnotherSpin said:

 

I find that everything in this life loosen with time... Let it go.

 

On ‎6‎/‎29‎/‎2018 at 3:40 AM, Abtr said:

Did you apply solder to the wire ends? Basically there's nothing wrong with a screw connector, but you should never tin the wire. A tinned wire will slowly give way to the screw's pressure and become loose.

https://electronics.stackexchange.com/questions/29861/tinning-wires-that-will-be-screwed-in-to-a-chocolate-block-terminal-strip
 

 

On ‎7‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 4:35 AM, Abtr said:

Yeah, I "wouldn't" think so too. A bad (loose) connection will introduce resistance and thus lower (DC) voltage or worse, short your DC supply. If you think "that won't make that much of a difference" then by all means go ahead and tin the wires before inserting them in screw connectors. The connections will come loose, guaranteed. One here (@bit01) complained about loose screw connections. Although this individual didn't bother to respond to my query, I'm pretty sure he/she tinned the wires. Anyway, I'm done with this. Too much trolling.  
 

What did I start here? - It is true that I tin stranded wire as soon as I strip it to prevent corrosion/oxidation- a life time practice. @Abtr is right that this makes a softer screw connection, but in my case it is okay for this purpose as it is not a permanent solution- I use the screw connectors like many people here (I assume) for prototyping! The cable is being handled in and out of tight spaces though (not ideal). As for my permanent cables, I use proper soldered connectors on both ends which is what I would recommend.

My original post on this was in reference to the heat shrink over the screws, and wondering if/why the DIYer (@AnotherSpin) was comfortable with it as a permanent connection..

ATB.

b

[Cornan]

15 minutes ago, John769 said:

Interesting! So could you use a 0.5A-1A LT3045 followed by a 5A LS-HPULN for the Brooklyn or must both of them be above the Brooklyn's amp draw of a little below 1.5A?  I guess not but just checking..

 

Brooklyn DAC is still better with two LS-HPULN in series unfortunately. But Iso Regen for example sounds better with LT3045 1A in series with MS-HPULN (3A) than two MS-HPULN in series. Aries Mini also sounded better with LT3045 1A in series with LS-HPULN than two LS-HPULN in series when I tried it. No idea why, but note that this was before the additional Kemet´s inline. I have´nt actually tried it again since I added the inline Kemet´s all over the place.

[John769]

That's still good to know if I ever buy a MP audio p/s for my Regen or SSD (which currently have two series 0.5-1A LT3045's on each of them.) Thanks..?

[mansr]

16 hours ago, Cornan said:

One more thing that I will tell you’all. Put the highest current LT3045 closest to the powered device. If you have series LT3045 you can use a 0.5A version first and highest possible current closest to the device. In some spots a 0.5- 1A LT3045 device followed by a 5A LT3045 surpass two 5A in series. Don’t ask me why, but it does IRL. ?

Huh? The LT3045 is specified for 500 mA. Being a linear regulator, the input and output currents are equal, and series connected regulators will also carry the same current.

[sandyk]

4 minutes ago, mansr said:

Huh? The LT3045 is specified for 500 mA. Being a linear regulator, the input and output currents are equal, and series connected regulators will also carry the same current.

 

In this case he was referring to powering a USB Iso Regen, which would be a waste of using a 5A version as the output regulator for such a miniscule improvement. (IF any ? )

[Cornan]

1 minute ago, mansr said:

Huh? The LT3045 is specified for 500 mA. Being a linear regulator, the input and output currents are equal, and series connected regulators will also carry the same current.

 

I know. I am talking about Alexey´s LT3045´s here. Available in 0.5A and 1A versions. The higher amperage LT3045 versions are from Stammheim (3A MS-HPULN & 5A LS-HPULN). The more parallel LT3045s closest to the powered device the better it sounds IME. Still adding one 1A version in series with a 5A version increase SQ. Sometimes (NOT always) even more than two 5A versions in series in my setup.

[mansr]

1 minute ago, Cornan said:

I know. I am talking about Alexey´s LT3045´s here. Available in 0.5A and 1A versions. The higher amperage LT3045 versions are from Stammheim (3A MS-HPULN & 5A LS-HPULN). The more parallel LT3045s closest to the powered device the better it sounds IME. Still adding one 1A version in series with a 5A version increase SQ. Sometimes (NOT always) even more than two 5A versions in series in my setup.

So you're not talking about the LT3045 as such but rather various modules built around several of these chips. The performance of the LT3045 depends largely on careful PCB layout and good selection of external components. It's not surprising for noise characteristics to vary between different modules. It is, however, still concerning if adding an external regulator has any audible effect on a supposedly high end DAC, moreso if minute differences between regulator modules can be heard.

[Cornan]

7 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

In this case he was referring to powering a USB Iso Regen, which would be a waste of using a 5A version as the output regulator for such a miniscule improvement. (IF any ? )

 

In my case it is actually a Balanced and isolated 230-15VAC ps>Sigma 11 (S12)>LT3045 1A>MS-HPULN (3A) that is powering ISO Regen which is providing USB power to BluWave USB to Spdif converter. I would´nt call it a miniscule improvement at all. Actually a great one! ?

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, mansr said:

So you're not talking about the LT3045 as such but rather various modules built around several of these chips. The performance of the LT3045 depends largely on careful PCB layout and good selection of external components. It's not surprising for noise characteristics to vary between different modules. It is, however, still concerning if adding an external regulator has any audible effect on a supposedly high end DAC, moreso if minute differences between regulator modules can be heard.

 

It is well known fact here at CA that Brooklyn DAC (and Brooklyn DAC+) respond well to external PSU. It have a dedicated DC input for that very reason, despite it having a built in PSU. 

 

Here in a calculation from a DiyAudio member regarding ripple rejection with LT3045 that you might (or might not) find interesting. It is based on the data sheet specs.

 

Quote

Keep in mind that even 1dB ripple rejection is a significant amount because it's 26% ripple reduction, and -3dB is half the ripple.

For the following examples, lets assume we're starting with a fairly clean 10mV ripple.

Going by the LT3045 data sheet, a 1V voltage differential generates 70dB ripple rejection...
10mV ripple @ -70dB = 0.00316mV ripple

If we again pass that through another LT3045 at 1V voltage differential and another 70dB ripple rejection...
0.00316mV ripple @ -70dB = 0.000001mV ripple

Likewise, -70dB + -70dB = -140dB which is also 0.000001mV ripple from 10mV

Now lets start with a single LT3045 at 3V voltage differential and 83dB ripple rejection...
10mV ripple @ -83dB = 0.00070795mV ripple

So a single LT3045 at 3V voltage differential (-83dB ripple) is 4.5 times more effective at ripple rejection than a single LT3045 at 1V voltage differential (-70dB ripple) 

But two series LT3045 at 1V voltage differentials is 708 times more effective at ripple rejection than a single LT3045 at 3V voltage differential, and it's 50% more efficient (net -2V versus -3V).

Also two series LT3045 at 1V voltage differentials is 3160 times more effective at ripple rejection than a single LT3045 at 1V voltage differential, but it's 50% less efficient (net -2V versus -1V).

So definitely series LT3045 has a distinct advantage over single. But if you can't wing two, try one at 3V differential.

 

[mansr]

7 minutes ago, Cornan said:

It is well known fact here at CA that Brooklyn DAC (and Brooklyn DAC+) respond well to external PSU.

That's just another way of saying that it sucks. For $2000 one really should be able to expect better.

[BigGuy]

3 minutes ago, mansr said:

That's just another way of saying that it sucks. For $2000 one really should be able to expect better.

Having heard the original Brooklyn with an sBooster LPS against the original Manhattan, I can say that the Brooklyn came very close in SQ.

Given the proclivity of SOME people to choose and tweak power supplies ?, IMO Mytek made a good marketing decision giving users a great as-is DAC which could be enhanced to their individual threshold of pain.

[Ralf11]

lotta loose screws on this thread

[sandyk]

10 hours ago, mansr said:

It is, however, still concerning if adding an external regulator has any audible effect on a supposedly high end DAC, moreso if minute differences between regulator modules can be heard.

 

  Despite the very best regulation , the "house sound" of the filter capacitors used STILL affects the resulting sound to some extent.

It's NOT all black and white like you would wish to believe , or have been taught.

Even a slightly lower PSU impedance towards 100KHZ, as when using Low ESR electrolytics results in accentuated HF detail. 

 This still happens even when using a capacitance multiplier where you may have a simulated capacitance of SEVERAL Farads .

 Incidentally, if you have a look at the PDF for the LT3045 there is no mention of it being recommended

for Analogue Audio use, which is rather surprising, and unusual given that it is such a low noise voltage regulator.

 

Applications

 

 

nn RF Power Supplies: PLLs, VCOs, Mixers, LNAs, PAs

nn Very Low Noise Instrumentation

nn High Speed/High Precision Data Converters

nn Medical Applications: Imaging, Diagnostics

nn Precision Power Supplies

nn Post-Regulator for Switching Supplies

[sandyk]

2 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

lotta loose screws on this thread

 

 Better grab your nuts and bolt !

[Ralf11]

I do need to go outside and wash the sports car.

 

I think I'll even turn on the aged Pioneer SuperTuner radio in it...

[sandyk]

10 hours ago, Cornan said:

 

In my case it is actually a Balanced and isolated 230-15VAC ps>Sigma 11 (S12)>LT3045 1A>MS-HPULN (3A) that is powering ISO Regen which is providing USB power to BluWave USB to Spdif converter. I would´nt call it a miniscule improvement at all. Actually a great one! ?

 

With all the great improvements that you keep reporting hearing, from such a mediocre source as streamed .flac, you should now be hearing the original recordings 10 rimes better than they were recorded ? (evil grin)

[mansr]

52 minutes ago, sandyk said:

Incidentally, if you have a look at the PDF for the LT3045 there is no mention of it being recommended for Analogue Audio use, which is rather surprising, and unusual given that it is such a low noise voltage regulator.

Audio not being on that list doesn't mean they discourage use of the device. Maybe they just don't think it's necessary.

[sandyk]

51 minutes ago, mansr said:

Audio not being on that list doesn't mean they discourage use of the device. Maybe they just don't think it's necessary.

 

I doubt that .

The manufacturers rarely miss an opportunity to highlight that their products are ideal for use in high quality consumer equipment.

Why wouldn't they, when it's a further huge potential sales area for their product  ?

 

Having said that, I now use a 3.3V LT3045  (LM 78XX format) in the input PCB of my DIY DAC with a further small noticeable increase in performance over a LM3940T-3.3V regulator.

[genjamon]

Ok, after 8 pages of debate about the best way to tighten a screw, I have something actually substantive to report regarding sound quality impressions and DC cabling.

 

I've just finished a somewhat extended comparison between short (<6") cables made with 12awg solid core from the hardware store ($.69/ft) both with and without Kemets on each end.  This is between my LPS 1.2 and UltraRendu.  So, it's a bit simpler system than some of the others discussed on here.  I do have a LDover LT3045 board in the house, but haven't yet hooked it up.  I wanted to get a handle on my preferred cabling first, and plus, the LPS 1.2 output is already driven by a LT3045 regulator.  

 

So, at risk of starting yet another front here, I"m actually not digging the Kemets at all in this setup.  I gave them 48 hours of continuous use, and in three listening sessions throughout that period (immediately upon plugging in, after 24 hours, and at the end of the 48 hours) my impressions remained consistent throughout.  It sounded like a haze was over the full frequency spectrum of the music.  With just the raw unadulterated 12awg wire, I get more micro detail, clarity, realism throughout.  My first thought when I first swapped to the Kemets was "where'd my dynamics go?!".  Now, I'll acknowledge a certain smoothening of any sibilance in my system, and I can see how those with tinnitus and/or bright systems could benefit from the haze the Kemets added.  In Charles's case, using a LPS-1 and MicroRendu, which I am very familiar with, I wonder if it's not a better synergy.  And maybe the Kemets are providing more benefit over the LPS-1, but the LPS 1.2 may not need the Kemets due to better output regulation.  So, I'm not trying to say the Kemets are trash or anything, and I'm still interested in trying them when I put my LT3045 board in between LPS 1.2 and the UltraRendu.  But at this point, the Kemets are not going back into the system in this configuration - no way, no how.  I'm getting magic with the straight 12awg romex and will be happy to come back to this configuration if results are mixed with other experiments.

 

This result is after living with and enjoying the Supra Cat8 w/JSSG for about a month before trying the 12awg solid core.  I found the Supra Cat8 to be an easy improvement over my former DIY Canare 4s6.  

 

[sandyk]

43 minutes ago, genjamon said:

So, at risk of starting yet another front here, I"m actually not digging the Kemets at all in this setup.  I gave them 48 hours of continuous use, and in three listening sessions throughout that period (immediately upon plugging in, after 24 hours, and at the end of the 48 hours) my impressions remained consistent throughout.  It sounded like a haze was over the full frequency spectrum of the music.  With just the raw unadulterated 12awg wire, I get more micro detail, clarity, realism throughout. 

 

 Like Low ESR electrolytic capacitors, the Kemets have a lower impedance at 100KHZ than over the audible range. When the output impedance of a PSU is lower at very high frequencies such as 100KHZ you get the effect of a small amount of apparent added HF detail.

 IF there was some low level wideband HF rubbish present too, this MAY exaggerate this rubbish further, perhaps resulting in a " haze."

[Abtr]

8 hours ago, genjamon said:

Ok, after 8 pages of debate about the best way to tighten a screw, I have something actually substantive to report regarding sound quality impressions and DC cabling.

...

A screw is best tightened with a screw driver. And in case you didn't realize this, bad (screw) terminal connections will add resistance and noise to the output of a (DC) power supply which will more substantively impact sound quality than any specific choice of DC cable.   

[AnotherSpin]

3 hours ago, Abtr said:

A screw is best tightened with a screw driver. [...]

 

+1. Chairman Mao's saying?