How DOES the grounding boxes work?

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, wgscott said:

If you ground something, the electrons (which are negatively charged) flow into the earth.  If you have something that is electrically isolated and suspended in space, and not connected to the earth, it cannot dissipate electrons, so no current flows, and no grounding takes place.  This has nothing to do with something like Einstein's discoveries.  In the case of special relativity, Einstein offered a new interpretation of why Maxwell's Laws of Electrodynamics were invariant under a Lorentz transformation. Einstein did not change the laws of electrodynamics in any way whatsoever.

 

I'm not sure anyone could ask for a better answer without paying for it, and even then I'm not sure it would be better.

[plissken]

14 minutes ago, elcorso said:

so willing to attack someone who puts a new thread that seems wrong to them because or the laws of Physic. By this way very few people are going to dare to pose new threads.

 

 

He's not being attacked. He is being taken to task for:

 

1. Asking for possible answers

2. Eschewing answers that don't align with what I believe is an unformed, still preconceived notion as how it does work.

 

You can't dismiss the answers if one didn't already have some form of answer in mind.

[elcorso]

4 minutes ago, wgscott said:

 

If you ground something, the electrons (which are negatively charged) flow into the earth.  If you have something that is electrically isolated and suspended in space, and not connected to the earth, it cannot dissipate electrons, so no current flows, and no grounding takes place.  This has nothing to do with something like Einstein's discoveries.  In the case of special relativity, Einstein offered a new interpretation of why Maxwell's Laws of Electrodynamics were invariant under a Lorentz transformation. Einstein did not change the laws of electrodynamics in any way whatsoever.

 

As for me, I suggested he take advantage of the free on-line physics lectures that MIT has made available.  It is a tremendously valuable, high-quality resource from one of the best institutions in the world.  How is that making fun of anything?

 

Now Cornan got a wise answer!  That's why I a questioned him, in this thread, if the Box have a connection to ground.

 

Of course Einstein did not changed the laws, but explained how they work and bravo for his interpretation !

 

Sending somebody to school is not a nice suggestion, over here is considered an insult.

 

Roch

[pkane2001]

13 minutes ago, wgscott said:

If you ground something, the electrons (which are negatively charged) flow into the earth.  If you have something that is electrically isolated and suspended in space, and not connected to the earth, it cannot dissipate electrons, so no current flows, and no grounding takes place.

 

Perfect! Short and to the point 

 

[plissken]

1 minute ago, elcorso said:

Sending somebody to school is not a nice suggestion, over here is considered an insult.

 

Roch

 

Where do you go from there? I once suggested to my struggling older brother that he may want to consider an extended education. You would have thought I asked him to join a monastery. 

[semente]

16 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

We have a difference in opinion. I see my responses being tough, but I don't see them being unfair.

 

I think the hardest thing for Cornan to potentially have to come to grips with is that the grounding box may be adding noise to the system and it may be his preference. I know when I first showed him the measurements of the box that his reaction was visceral and very object to it.

 

That possibility would certainly erode away some who had built up themselves as some sort of connoisseur of audio to realize they have been listening to a noisy system and aligning it with an audiophile system.

 

 

I wasn't referring to your responses but to AJs, although yours do come through as a bit too rough sometimes.

I agree with your assessment of this particular subject.

[AnotherSpin]

40 minutes ago, AJ Soundfield said:

Repeatability is key to scientific rigor! 

Yes, science is all-round self-content..)

 

[elcorso]

2 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

Where do you go from there? I once suggested to my struggling older brother that he may want to consider an extended education. You would have thought I asked him to join a monastery. 

 

Different languages, different interpretations.

 

In Spanish (my language) "andá a estudiar" (go to school and learn) it could be translated to English "you are an stupid and needs to study".

 

Roch

[plissken]

3 minutes ago, elcorso said:

 

Different languages, different interpretations.

 

In Spanish (my language) "andá a estudiar" (go to school and learn) it could be translated to English "you are an stupid and needs to study".

 

Roch

 

I'm ignorant about a lot of things. If it's something that concerns me I attempt to correct my ignorance with what would be considered best practices.

 

Stupidity on the other hand is ignorance willfully left uncorrected.

[Cornan]

Quote

As for me, I suggested he take advantage of the free on-line physics lectures that MIT has made available.  It is a tremendously valuable, high-quality resource from one of the best institutions in the world.  How is that making fun of anything?

 

This would be fine if I asked about how physics works. In this thread I would like to hear thoughts and plausible ideas how grounding boxes might work. If you are 100% sure that they do not work I just see no point why you want to post anything at all.  

[AnotherSpin]

Just now, plissken said:

 

I'm ignorant about a lot of things

 

The more such things you have the more happy you are.

 

[NOMBEDES]

I wish they did work I need a ground solution for one of my turntables.......

[Cornan]

Just now, NOMBEDES said:

I wish they did work I need a ground solution for one of my turntables.......

 

Stay tuned. I am planning to try it out eventually on my Ariston RD40 turntable! ?

[kumakuma]

14 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

This would be fine if I asked about how physics works. In this thread I would like to hear thoughts and plausible ideas how grounding boxes might work. If you are 100% sure that they do not work I just see no point why you want to post anything at all.  

 

19 hours ago, Cornan said:

This thread belongs to both believers and disbelievers of grounding boxes. Let's get this hot subject sorted out ones and for all!  ?

Anything from scientific materials to personal ideas are most welcomed. I am a personal believer in that scientist is just a person with an extremely curious mind.

 

Not enjoying the taste of the can of worms you opened? 

[Jud]

16 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

This would be fine if I asked about how physics works. In this thread I would like to hear thoughts and plausible ideas how grounding boxes might work. If you are 100% sure that they do not work I just see no point why you want to post anything at all.  

 

So what Bill is telling you with his excellent explanation is that you will get ground currents if you make a connection that is *part of a circuit.* If you connect a wire from one piece of equipment to another in the circuit, then the electrons (which are the current) have somewhere to go.  If you connect a wire to a box that itself isn’t connected to anything else, nowhere for the electrons/ground current to go: electrons don’t use “one-way streets,” only two-way.

[marce]

49 minutes ago, elcorso said:

 

My answer is because Cornan's question is not answered. If the one who answers says that it is not possible because of the sacrosanct laws of Physics, it is fine for me, but let's take a look at the biography of Einstein, now in Nat Geo. On the other hand, those who answer do not own the Grounding Boxes.

 

Please understand me well that I am not defending the effectiveness (or not) of those Boxes, I do not have any nor plan to buy it. What bothers me (and has always bothered me) is as a certain group of this forum (they are almost always the same) is so willing to attack someone who puts a new thread that seems wrong to them because or the laws of Physic. By this way very few people are going to dare to pose new threads.

 

It's better to teach, if you have the knowledge, than to make fun. Isn't it?

 

Roch

This thread is how these work or don't work, how are we supposed to answer, its electronics, its physics, so if there is no known mechanism for them working as marketed then we have to look at  possible ways the sound field is being influenced... The favourite supported by measurements (and experience) is an antenna...

 

 

 

Surprised that some send PM's asking for people to be banned, its a discussion about audio, nothing serious, just because we have disagreements doesn't mean we cant discuss our views, wanting to ban someone because of their views I find distasteful and dictatorial.

Its a discussion, a fun discussion I would hope, not a declaration of war.

[Jud]

39 minutes ago, plissken said:

 

Where do you go from there? I once suggested to my struggling older brother that he may want to consider an extended education. You would have thought I asked him to join a monastery. 

 

So you were unsuccessful there, and took from this the lesson that you should repeat the same procedure and expect a different result?

[marce]

1 hour ago, plissken said:

 

I'm willing to look at whatever debunking information you have. Links please.

I don't think there is any, read a long rambling thread regarding all this, its a personal argument involving a few, a bit like kids in the playground, I'm keeping well away from it, far to deep for me.

Maybe we should rate the threads with musical genres, that thread  needs a death metal score.

[mansr]

31 minutes ago, Cornan said:

This would be fine if I asked about how physics works. In this thread I would like to hear thoughts and plausible ideas how grounding boxes might work.

What makes you think grounding boxes are exempt from physics?

[plissken]

5 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

So you were unsuccessful there, and took from this the lesson that you should repeat the same procedure and expect a different result?

 

So you mean since the suggestion didn't work for my brother that the same message:

 

1. Doesn't work for others

2. Won't work for my brother if his other lazy efforts don't work or he hears the same message from someone else.

 

Got it.

[marce]

1 hour ago, wgscott said:

 

If you ground something, the electrons (which are negatively charged) flow into the earth.

Flow, I would say drift aimlessly, lazy little buggers meandering at about 0.002mm/s

[marce]

15 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

So what Bill is telling you with his excellent explanation is that you will get ground currents if you make a connection that is *part of a circuit.* If you connect a wire from one piece of equipment to another in the circuit, then the electrons (which are the current) have somewhere to go.  If you connect a wire to a box that itself isn’t connected to anything else, nowhere for the electrons/ground current to go: electrons don’t use “one-way streets,” only two-way.

A two way street is a good explanation for how a signal travels, as a wave front down the loop formed by the signal wire and the return path. A good reference though quite heavy in parts is Ralph Morrisons, The fields of electronics.

 

[AnotherSpin]

As long as we confine ourselves within the ancient realm of "electricity" we will not be able to move forward into a boundless eternity of audiophile joy.

[89reksal]

What's happened on this thread is the same thing that happens over and over and over and over in so many threads on this site.

 

Someone that has actual first hand experience with whatever is being discussed invariably ends up confronted by virtually the same group of forum members that show up in these threads to tell him/her why what they experienced is impossible. The main similarities among this group seem to be a higher education level (at least based on reading some of their posts), an overwhelming self-assured  belief that everything in the universe can be explained by their knowledge (I'm basing this on my reading of their posts only), which for most was likely gained in some form of educational institution many years ago, anyone that disagrees with them is most likely imagining things at best, or delusional at worst and finally, and the one defining similarity, the complete lack of any actual first hand experience with what is being discussed in the thread.

 

It's this last similarity which makes their input on these threads so pathetic. For all their education, knowledge, whatever it's called, it should be obvious ( at least to me) that without first hand experience, their comments have far less relevance than any of those from those with actual first hand experience, those same people that they're attempting to refute. Just because someone doesn't understand exactly how or why something functions, doesn't mean it's impossible. Don't these people think that if everyone through the ages thought like them, most of their cherished knowledge, scientific theories, physics, etc. would have never been discovered? For all their apparent knowledge, there seems to also be an astounding closed mindedness. The true pioneers are always the ones that say "what if...", not the ones who continuously say "that's impossible".

Perhaps if they had actually tried whatever product or suggestion for themselves, then their explanations or theories would be more welcomed.

 

I do apologize to the OP for the off topic rant.

 

[wgscott]

5 minutes ago, AnotherSpin said:

As long as we confine ourselves within the ancient realm of "electricity" we will not be able to move forward into a boundless eternity of audiophile joy.

 

Owsley Stanley seemed to be able to do that (developing the monitor speaker, differential microphones, and the Wall of Sound) completely within the "ancient realm of 'electricity'.  He didn't use things like grounding boxes.