A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[sergiocurvelo]

 

 

Very interesting, drjimwillie . Where can I find this PCI riser?
 

[drjimwillie]

It is two pieces.  the first is two mail parts, one side for the PCI slot and the other for the ribbon cable.

I was made for me by Andrew of Small Green Computer, you can ask him.

Although my point is that it sounds much better with out it.

[cool_chris]

1 hour ago, drjimwillie said:

My QNAP HS253dx (slient-audiophile) NAS has two Ethernet jacks, which I bridged,

 

How do you bridge ethernet ?

what is it doing , and how it improves SQ ?

Do you have any pictures ? 

[drjimwillie]

 Creating an ethernet bridge is the original topic of this thread. If you go to the first posts you will learn much more than I can explain. 

 If you have two ethernet jacks in your device/server you can create an internal switch that is also known as a bridge to connect in going and outgoing ethernet signals.  It creates a direct connection   Mostly intended for use with an ethernet NUC. 

( I hope I get that right,  it’s a lot of pressure with all the smart guys around here)🙂

[rickca]

Nvidia has some announcements planned for E3 in LA next week.  One rumor is that RTX cards will get a $100 price reduction and GDDR6 memory to better compete with AMD.

https://wccftech.com/nvidia-super-lineup-will-consist-of-three-cards-faster-rtx-2060-2070-and-2080-variants-with-100-off-msrp-and-souped-up-gddr6/

[mikicasellas]

Hi Gents,

 

Wanted to share that to my "already Grounded treated Room", i added a Ground Copper Bar with excellent results trying it on my DAC only so far, i really was not expecting this, it made a significant difference.

 

If i got this increment in sound quality, what other devices should i try next, would all the connected gear would be benefited from this ( Integrated, Server, Nuc + HDPlex 200w & switch ) ?, what are your experiences with this ?

 

I hope my experience could serve to others, i mean this added Copper bar is SO inexpensive and i believe there is a lot of people spending so much on those Grounded Boxes that i am wondering if those worth the investment.

 

Regards

 

[austinpop]

2 hours ago, mikicasellas said:

Hi Gents,

 

Wanted to share that to my "already Grounded treated Room", i added a Ground Copper Bar with excellent results trying it on my DAC only so far, i really was not expecting this, it made a significant difference.

 

If i got this increment in sound quality, what other devices should i try next, would all the connected gear would be benefited from this ( Integrated, Server, Nuc + HDPlex 200w & switch ) ?, what are your experiences with this ?

 

I hope my experience could serve to others, i mean this added Copper bar is SO inexpensive and i believe there is a lot of people spending so much on those Grounded Boxes that i am wondering if those worth the investment.

 

Regards

 

 

Hi Miki,

 

Could you explain in a little more detail what exactly you have added?

[mikicasellas]

Hi Rajiv,

 

My Room was already treated to have the best possible power in my wall, the thing that i just added was the copper plate in the picture to which i connected my DAC, its only purpose is that is connected to the ground outside and so i can connect several wires to it and each wire to connect to each of my devices, it does add a set up in SQ

 

In my limited knowledge i hope i made it as clear as possible

 

Best !!

[luisma]

Hi Miki, the copper bar is anchored to a concrete wall correct? these anchors are how long? is that concrete wall one of the house walls?

 

I'm asking because at some point in my life I was an electrician and one of the tasks I was used to perform was grounding houses in Europe.

 

Best

 

Luis

[Superdad]

4 hours ago, luisma said:

Hi Miki, the copper bar is anchored to a concrete wall correct? these anchors are how long? is that concrete wall one of the house walls?

 

I'm asking because at some point in my life I was an electrician and one of the tasks I was used to perform was grounding houses in Europe.

 

Not sure what he has that bar tied to, but Ufer grounding is great. When I added the shop addition and upgraded all our house utilities we used the rebar network in the new foundation to give our entire house a new Ufer ground.  Sure beats the thin 6-foot copper rod rotting that was rotting in the ground for 30 years.

 

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ufer_ground

[cool_chris]

....its only purpose is that is connected to the ground outside...

 

The key word here is outside .

If so it is just separate grounding to the home grounding system that might be not optimal.

But effects depend of what power system is used in your area.

TN-C , TN-S, TN-C-S, TT, IT...

 

I also created separate grounding system exclusive for my audio room.

it is 7 metal pillars  (Each is 12m tall) hammered into the ground in my backyard and then connected all together to one very thick cupper cable that gets though wall of my litening room to the simmilar copper bar.

Professional grounding person has to do it so you do not hurt youself!!!

 

all my system boxes are connected to that .

it was like 3000 usd investment that is all gounded in my backyard but this did gigantic inprovement to my system.

 

You gain 3 things:

1. separation from the home grounding system ( all your electronics is connected to it)

that pollutes gounding.

2. Much lower impedance grounding that makes gigantic difference if you do it right,

it has ti be below 0,5 ohm (resistance) 

3. STAR topology of the grounding for all your system components that itself is a great benefit.

 

lastly this is a way better than any gounding box that actually ELEVATES the noise floor !

yes , grounding boxes elevate the noise floor.

 

[mikicasellas]

5 hours ago, cool_chris said:

....its only purpose is that is connected to the ground outside...

 

The key word here is outside .

If so it is just separate grounding to the home grounding system that might be not optimal.

But effects depend of what power system is used in your area.

TN-C , TN-S, TN-C-S, TT, IT...

 

I also created separate grounding system exclusive for my audio room.

it is 7 metal pillars  (Each is 12m tall) hammered into the ground in my backyard and then connected all together to one very thick cupper cable that gets though wall of my litening room to the simmilar copper bar.

Professional grounding person has to do it so you do not hurt youself!!!

 

all my system boxes are connected to that .

it was like 3000 usd investment that is all gounded in my backyard but this did gigantic inprovement to my system.

 

You gain 3 things:

1. separation from the home grounding system ( all your electronics is connected to it)

that pollutes gounding.

2. Much lower impedance grounding that makes gigantic difference if you do it right,

it has ti be below 0,5 ohm (resistance) 

3. STAR topology of the grounding for all your system components that itself is a great benefit.

 

lastly this is a way better than any gounding box that actually ELEVATES the noise floor !

yes , grounding boxes elevate the noise floor.

 

 

That is exactly what i have here in general:

Also I am going to find out which power system i have here (TN-C , TN-S, TN-C-S, TT, IT...)

 

[auricgoldfinger]

6 hours ago, cool_chris said:

yes , grounding boxes elevate the noise floor. 

 

This has certainly NOT been my experience or the experience of others I know who have used one in their systems.

[austinpop]

38 minutes ago, mikicasellas said:

 

That is exactly what i have here in general:

Also I am going to find out which power system i have here (TN-C , TN-S, TN-C-S, TT, IT...)

 

 

Thanks for the clarifications.

 

12m??!! Where I live in the Texas hill country, I'd be lucky if I had 1m of topsoil before I hit limestone.

[mikicasellas]

1 minute ago, austinpop said:

 

Thanks for the clarifications.

 

12m??!! Where I live in the Texas hill country, I'd be lucky if I had 1m of topsoil before I hit limestone.

 

Well, here in the Yucatan Peninsula it is all solid rock, i believe even harder than Texas, but the company that did the hole brought this to make the 12 meter deep, look:

 

[cool_chris]

1 hour ago, auricgoldfinger said:

This has certainly NOT been my experience or the experience of others I know who have used one in their systems.

 

Sadly it is reality.

no one is interesed here what someone thinks .

only reality and proven tests / mods.

Science.

Please see below: 

 

 

[taipan254]

7 minutes ago, cool_chris said:

Sadly it is reality.

no one is interesed here what someone thinks .

only reality and proven tests / mods.

Science.

Please see below

 

 

Actually many folks here rely far more on their ears than measurements. You'll notice no measurements have been provided supporting many of the claims made on this forum. What counts is whether or not, once you test a claim, you agree or disagree with the OP (e.g., @romaz, @austinpop, or @lmitche). 

 

That being said, I've definitely purchased what I thought was an amazing piece of equipment only to realize music quality decreased once I added it to the chain. 

[cool_chris]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

12m??!! Where I live in the Texas hill country, I'd be lucky if I had 1m of topsoil before I hit limestone.

 

I am lucky . 

I have 7 of the 12 m metal sticks . All 7 are 6 m away from eachother and all are connected on the top by long thick wire, and than one wire gets into the room.

again. It is the best mode I ever did.

 

if you have issues you can have thick 1x 8 cm metal stave grounded around you home .

than you add the water absorbent to the covering soil to have the lower impedance .

 

Please see example :

 

 

[cool_chris]

4 minutes ago, taipan254 said:

That being said, I've definitely purchased what I thought was an amazing piece of equipment only to realize music quality decreased once I added it to the chain. 

 

you are right but only partially.

you need it only when your grounding is not good quality.

When it is done properly and it has very low impedance you dont need it.

please ask professional recording studio people. Big studios not home recording.

ask them what they use.

100% uses the real ground that has specyfic impedance. 

 

adding grounding box in system with excellent ground line degrades the SQ.

I loved my Entreq many years ago but I sold it once the real grounding was added.

 

the grounding boxes do work but this tells you how bad is the „common” groung line in the area you live.

Again cutting off this „ common” used grounding line was the best I did in my system.

 

[mikicasellas]

2 hours ago, austinpop said:

Thanks for the clarifications.

 

You are welcome Rajiv,

 

Believe when i say the set up in SQ is massive, at least in my case, the sound got wider and big, instruments more real and the sound overall is more clean and a lot less constricted...i mean i don't know why but the devices were connected to the already grounded outlets and the profesional guy said, it may or may not make any difference if the devices get to be connected also to the bar, well at least here it did mayor with only connecting one cable from the copper bar to my DAC...i will try to connect the other devices don't know if to "Switch, Integrated, Nuc HDPlex 200 or to all"

 

Best

 

Miki

[auricgoldfinger]

1 hour ago, cool_chris said:

no one is interesed here what someone thinks .

only reality and proven tests / mods.

Science.

 

Actually, the entire purpose of this thread is to document user experiences and listening impressions.  People who rely on scientific measurements to justify their opinions are typically requested to take those discussions elsewhere. 

 

Now would be a good time for you to review the guidelines for this thread: 

 

In particular, note that this thread is about listening impressions. We do not:

• Demand proof
• Require a specific methodology
• Require measurements. 

If you need further clarification, I'm sure that @austinpop would be happy to elaborate.

[Dev]

5 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

Actually, the entire purpose of this thread is to document user experiences and listening impressions.  People who rely on scientific measurements to justify their opinions are typically requested to take those discussions elsewhere.

 

Audiononsensereview is a great place for it.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com

[cool_chris]

It seems you do not understand .

Partially you are right. I was just pointing where you are wrong,

and where  / how you can improve your system if you want to.

I was trying to explain the great SQ effect of someone from this forum.

This works !

 

Also I was testing grounding options for more than 4 years but no problem, I can keep my findings, mods and tests for myself

 

Remember that resistance to knolage is not going to change the facts. 

You might learn same things in 4 years from now or nerver.

[auricgoldfinger]

8 minutes ago, cool_chris said:

It seems you do not understand .

Partially you are right. I was just pointing where you are wrong,

and where  / how you can improve your system if you want to.

I was trying to explain the great SQ effect of someone from this forum.

This works !

 

Also I was testing grounding options for more than 4 years but no problem, I can keep my findings, mods and tests for myself

 

Remember that resistance to knolage is not going to change the facts. 

You might learn same things in 4 years from now or nerver.

 

I was trying to be polite, but since you insist...

 

As someone with a scientific and quantitative background, let me point out the obvious flaw in your conclusion that "any gounding (sic) box that actually ELEVATES the noise floor" and your subsequent reply to me is wholly unsupported by your graph.  In other words, the most that can be said about your graph is that your current grounding methodology without the Entreq is superior to your current grounding methodology with the Entreq.  However, there is NOTHING to suggest that the Entreq (and all other grounding boxes, including more modern active grounding boxes) adds noise to other systems since you provide no such baseline.  To put it simply, you have grossly over generalized.

 

This faulty conclusion begs the question of whether your measurements were even made in a scientifically valid manner.  Furthermore, you have not described your approach in a way that allows us to evaluate the quality of your test results.  Nevertheless, I am perfectly willing to accept your subjective listening impression that your current grounding methodology is superior to your Entreq grounding box.

 

Apologies to everyone, but I had to call bullsh-t.  I will have nothing more to say on this matter.

[Summit]

12 hours ago, cool_chris said:

It seems you do not understand .

Partially you are right. I was just pointing where you are wrong,

and where  / how you can improve your system if you want to.

I was trying to explain the great SQ effect of someone from this forum.

This works !

 

Also I was testing grounding options for more than 4 years but no problem, I can keep my findings, mods and tests for myself

 

Remember that resistance to knolage is not going to change the facts. 

You might learn same things in 4 years from now or nerver.

 

Measurements is not facts they are data. Measurements can reveal real issues, but also be done wrongly and not indicate what they are meant to. It’s paramount to understand how to measure different things and how to minimize that other external elements can interfere.

 

I don’t know exactly how Amir's test was conducted but some said that the box was not used and connected as it is intended to be used and that he didn’t even measured the ground plain, e.g. Amir didn’t connect the box to an audio system and instead connected it directly to his measuring device and all it showed was the noise that the cable picked up from his room. The thing is that a ground box is supposed to act like an antenna and drain noise from the audio system to the box .