Afterdark Master Clock for Uptone EtherRegen

[ambre]

6 hours ago, ambre said:

And a distributor for 50 or 75 ohms with 4 outputs also Cybershaft

https://www.adark.co/collections/cybershaft/products/cybershaft-limited2-ocxo-10mhz-op14-op20

[yoby]

I currently running an Ether Regen with Uptone LPS 1.2 power supply that is fed with SMPS "brick". Can I use the After Dark power supply in place of the SMPS "brick"? Would there be any advantage to doing this? I have an After Dark Queen re-clocker on order, so I would like to run both off of the same power supply. Thank you . 

[R1200CL]

9 hours ago, yoby said:

so I would like to run both off of the same power supply.

As a general rule, you don’t want to do this. Reason is that you break the isolation made by the EtherRegen. 

[Cazzesman]

Hello @AfterDark ,

 

I currently run a Mutec mc3 +usb which has the 75 ohm inputs.   I believe the Mutec handles both square and sine waves.   Others may confirm this fact or fiction.

 

From your Master Clock range of Units, which ones are the most suitable to use with Mutec using the 75 ohm BNC.   
 

Also which Unit is most suitable for the Mutec re the Square vs Sine wave issue.

 

I am interested in the Emperor Double Crown with the Afterdark LPS unit.

 

Regards Cazzesman. 

[DSK6]

Bear in mind that the following observations were after simultaneously inserting an EtherREGEN (with stock SMPS), AfterDark Reference OCXO clock (Queen 75ohm square wave) with partnering AfterDark Black Modernize LPS, Ghentaudio DC cable and Apogee Wyde-eye 75ohm BNC clock cable, and letting them play a play list on repeat for 10 days straight (with amp turned off). A standard CAT6 cable runs from switch to EtherREGEN ‘A side’ and then an AQ Cinnamon CAT7 from EtherREGEN ‘B side’ to streamer. Nothing else is connected to EtherREGEN except the AfterDark clock.

 

Generally I like to audition gear in my system first but this was not possible and I took a leap of faith based on the almost unanimously positive reviews on both the EtherREGEN and AfterDark clock and LPS. My system was already sounding excellent with no obvious weaknesses (to my ears) so I was hoping for a small improvement but didn’t really expect one. I really just wanted to clean up the signal from my NAS, router and switch before feeding it to the streamer.

 

I turned on the tube pre-amp and tube power amp and left the room for about 40 minutes to let them warm up. Upon re-entering the room I did not even reach the listening seat before being struck by the significant improvement in the purity, added body, added dynamics and lower noise floor … and this was at a lower volume level than I normally listen at. I literally stopped mid stride, grinned and exclaimed “Holy *uck!”. I did NOT expect this.

 

There was no way that these “peripheral” changes could produce the degree of improvement that was already so evident. I sat down and listened to a variety of genres and listened at lower and higher levels than normal, looking for the inevitable downside to this latest system change. The thing that struck me first was how much more powerful and “live” the bass was. Momentarily I wondered if my wife had been dusting and inadvertently turned up the gain on the subwoofer as I could now feel the bass so much more like at a live performance. However, I quickly realised that the bass was also more detailed and realistic and was still beautifully in balance with the rest of the frequency spectrum which was also more detailed and more effortless than before. Previously, soundstaging and image outlines were already quite good but now the soundstaging was even more unrestrained and immersive and the images within it were even more 3D and floated up more effortlessly and purely from the quieter background.   

 

My conclusion is that the combination of EtherREGEN and AfterDark clock/LPS have significantly lowered the noise floor which has in turn led to much cleaner (but not hyped) leading edges which enable more natural dynamics and imaging to flow through. I’m guessing that the significantly more powerful and convincingly “real” sounding bass is due to cleaner leading edges in the mid and upper bass region.

 

Overall the system is so much more lifelike in its energy level and attack, yet simultaneously more effortless, easy to listen to and real. Musicality has taken a leap forward. The suspension of disbelief now starts at a lower volume setting than before but also allows that level to be goosed up more than before, without turning hard, to really enjoy a live performance. Even vigorously played piano and violins remain fully and naturally textured at loud volumes, without becoming glassy or uncomfortable. Nuances in vocals, and basically all instruments, are improved.

 

Unfortunately I can’t tell you which component made the biggest difference but I’m not about to start messing with it now. I really can’t see how replacing the EtherREGEN’s SMPS with a good LPS could improve things further … but … 

 

[ambre]

53 minutes ago, DSK6 said:

 I really can’t see how replacing the EtherREGEN’s SMPS with a good LPS could improve things further … but … 

Yes you can easily  go for a Farad Super3 9v👀

[DSK6]

14 hours ago, ambre said:

Yes you can easily  go for a Farad Super3 9v👀

@ambre Stop it ... stop it ... stop it ... I must resist ... I must resist ... I must resist ...

 

The Uptone website suggests 7V/1.4A, 9V/1.0A, 12V/0.8A  ... if I don't intend sharing it with another device, is there any difference in performance?

 

PS. Sorry for sounding like a fanboy but I really was caught off guard by the scope and scale of improvement brought by the addition of the EtherREGEN and AfterDark clock/LPS. I'm in no way affiliated with either company apart from being a very happy customer.

 

[R1200CL]

@DSK6

You need two new power supplies from Uptone. (LPS-1.2).
One for the clock and the other for the EtherRegen 😅

[One and a half]

2 hours ago, R1200CL said:

@DSK6

You need two new power supplies from Uptone. (LPS-1.2).
One for the clock and the other for the EtherRegen 😅

I'm going to respectively disagree here. The Etheregen doesn't care, the clock may not either since it has very stable supply inside.

 

The issue is how will that supply affect the rest of the system as far as conducted emissions (noise) is concerned. More power supplies create more noise, it's fact. The less of them the better.

[Nikko1960]

I took delivery of the AfterDark Reference OCXO clock for EtherRegen  - the Queen 75ohm square wave version with additional discount for folks from this forum and a free clock cable.  I also bought the AfterDark Black Modernize LPS to power it.

 

I am only 6 hours after powering it up but... wow!

 

If you are on the fence on this item, get off now and buy one.  Don't do what I did - get the expensive version.  This is a superb addition to my system - not a subtle improvement at all.

 

Thanks Adrian, and I wish I had listened to your first suggestion (buy the Emperor).

[SethARider]

4 hours ago, Nikko1960 said:

I took delivery of the AfterDark Reference OCXO clock for EtherRegen  - the Queen 75ohm square wave version with additional discount for folks from this forum and a free clock cable.  I also bought the AfterDark Black Modernize LPS to power it.

 

I am only 6 hours after powering it up but... wow!

 

If you are on the fence on this item, get off now and buy one.  Don't do what I did - get the expensive version.  This is a superb addition to my system - not a subtle improvement at all.

 

Thanks Adrian, and I wish I had listened to your first suggestion (buy the Emperor).

 It is good idea to go with higher model right away. I made the same mistake and bought Queen 75 ohm EtherRegen version.

I ‘m using farad super 3 with level 2 silver to power it and I have it on for the last 25 days. It improved SQ up to the point, that just few days after I received it I ordered 75 ohm Emperor Eva for which I am waiting now.

 

Another huge improvement was changing bnc cable.

 

Another when I put it on audio shelf, then on stillpoint ultra 6 and I weighted it down with HRS dpx05545 (around 3 lbs).

[magnuska]

8 hours ago, SethARider said:

 It is good idea to go with higher model right away. I made the same mistake and bought Queen 75 ohm EtherRegen version.

I ‘m using farad super 3 with level 2 silver to power it and I have it on for the last 25 days. It improved SQ up to the point, that just few days after I received it I ordered 75 ohm Emperor Eva for which I am waiting now.

 

Another huge improvement was changing bnc cable.

 

Another when I put it on audio shelf, then on stillpoint ultra 6 and I weighted it down with HRS dpx05545 (around 3 lbs).

Hi, to wich BNC cable did you change?

[SethARider]

Stealth Sextet V16-T.

[JonD]

My Giesemann EVA clock and Project ClayX clock cable arrived last week. Its been burning in and I have been waiting for my MiniCircuits filter to arrive (came today) before any testing and reporting back. So that is my task for tonight. Will knock up a network diagram so people can see how its all connected and powered 🙂

[LEO SOUND]

@AfterDark.

 

Can you confirm to me that the master Clock Emperor Triple crown is in stock in a 75 ohm version and it is a sine wave. It is necessary to add a mini filter circuit for 75 ohm suddenly.

There is no need for an adapter too?

[R1200CL]

@LEO SOUND

I think such a clock is better if it’s bought as it’s native 50 ohm. Fiddle with it, may not be beneficial. (Which is what must be done). These clocks isn’t a high end design.  Also available adapters and filters is 50 ohm. And so is some of the best cables. There may be other products coming that standardize on 50 ohm. 50 ohm may raise the second hand value. 
 

As pr. John’s paper, the impedance doesn’t matter when it’s sine wave. The 75 ohm filter is soon sold out, and may not be available any more.

 

“Lead Time: CURRENT LEAD-TIME 1-3 WEEKS BASED ON LOW STOCK, IF OUT OF STOCK AT TIME OF ORDER LEAD-TIME 4-12 WEEKS
There is a 700.00 minimum per non-catalog model with the exception that the minimum is waived if the units are in stock and there is no date code requirement.”

 

To my knowledge: All current phase noise numbers is based on 50 ohm. 

 

If Adrian totally modifies the design in to a selectable (done properly) version of his single output clock, that may be a solution. Also lower voltage requirements may be beneficial, as some good or reasonable priced LPS is in range 5 to 9 volts. 

Here is some clocks I think is in use. 

https://www.microsemi.com/product-directory/high-reliability-rugged-oscillators/4847-ocxo 

Maybe a updated (universal) design where you could trade in a clock board is a possible way to further develop these clocks. 

I think we soon will have all digital signals by fiber. This includes clocks. There may also come technologies that will replace OCXO, but probably not this decade, even I think (know) the technology exist. 
 

Maybe some future products will have extremely good clocks built in.

We don’t know if these clocks will survive this decade, or even next 5 years. 
 

 

[JonD]

Network diagram below.

 

First test was to remove the whole EtherREGEN/Giesemann layer from the network and go straight from the EE 8Switch to the Bartok. This is my reference sound. 

 

Next I went to the full EtherREGEN+Giesemann/filter setup and the difference is very noticeable. The amount of depth in the music increases significantly. You arent concentrating hard to hear the difference, its very obvious. More to the music, sounds more vibrant and I tend to associate this with reduction in noise floor and I really notice better separation, bass and vocals in particular. Overall a more engaging experience.

 

Now the Bartok was good before the EtherREGEN, but the improvement is very nice to have and its one of those that once you hear it, you don't want to go back.

 

Next step will be to test with/without the Giesemann in the setup. This will determine how much the external clock adds to the EtherREGEN. More to come.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[skatbelt]

1 hour ago, JonD said:

Now the Bartok was good before the EtherREGEN, but the improvement is very nice to have and its one of those that once you hear it, you don't want to go back.

 

Next step will be to test with/without the Giesemann in the setup. This will determine how much the external clock adds to the EtherREGEN. More to come.

 

 

Very interested in your next step! I don't have a Bartok but more or less the same network bridging technology before my DAC: a dCS Network Bridge.

 

I personally didn't experience an improvement by adding an external clock (Mutec REF-10) to the EtherREGEN but the owner of the REF-10 does. In his system he has the ER directly connected to the ethernet input of his Lyngdorf amp.

 

The dCS NB does buffer and reclock the input signal (as does the Bartok?) itself. I think this is why. But... adding the ER before it did make a noticeable difference as did an opticalModule before the ER (to a lesser degree).

[JonD]

@skatbelt I did make sure I totally powered down the Bartok when i was changing the network setup; trying to ensure nothing stored is just being reused, since i was using one track to test for differences.

 

I just finished testing the setup with the EtherREGEN and then with and without the Giesemann EVA; and it does add some additional depth, vibrancy etc to the music; an improvement. I would say the EtherREGEN is delivering at least 70+% of the uplift and then the clock adds a little more; say 20-30%. On paper the Giesemann EVA is a higher spec than the standard REF10, but I am no expert, so don't know how the two compare in back to back tests.

 

Now to caveat, I am using a really cheap LPSU with my Giesemann EVA clock for now; the TeraDak is known to be towards the bottom of LPSUs in terms of performance. I would order another Farad Super3; however, I have already paid for a Sean Jacobs SR5T that will arrive towards the end of May. So I do expect that to make a difference. The SR5T was going to be used with a Melco N100; but I am not decided about that just yet. In any case, if i do go for the N100, I would get another Farad Super3 for the Giesemann EVA.

 

 

 

[skatbelt]

10 minutes ago, JonD said:

@skatbelt I did make sure I totally powered down the Bartok when i was changing the network setup; trying to ensure nothing stored is just being reused, since i was using one track to test for differences.

 

I just finished testing the setup with the EtherREGEN and then with and without the Giesemann EVA; and it does add some additional depth, vibrancy etc to the music; an improvement. I would say the EtherREGEN is delivering at least 70+% of the uplift and then the clock adds a little more; say 20-30%. On paper the Giesemann EVA is a higher spec than the standard REF10, but I am no expert, so don't know how the two compare in back to back tests.

 

Now to caveat, I am using a really cheap LPSU with my Giesemann EVA clock for now; the TeraDak is known to be towards the bottom of LPSUs in terms of performance. I would order another Farad Super3; however, I have already paid for a Sean Jacobs SR5T that will arrive towards the end of May. So I do expect that to make a difference. The SR5T was going to be used with a Melco N100; but I am not decided about that just yet. In any case, if i do go for the N100, I would get another Farad Super3 for the Giesemann EVA.

 

 

 

 

I studied your diagram again and now see that you have copper in on the EtherREGEN. So our setup's differ.

 

I wouldn't say 20-30% but going from copper to fiber/OpticalModule was certainly noticeable. I have ER and oM on high quality LPS's.

[JonD]

The percentages are relative, I dont try and define the absolute differences in SQ. Bartok with standard ethernet input sounds really good already. So we are talking incremental improvements.

 

So I tested a base setup and with everything in the network to establish if the ER+Giesemann made a noticeable difference. It does and I called this increase 100%. The 20% was only my attempt to do the following:

 

Base setup:            0%  (arbitrary value; but sounds excellent)

add ER:                  80% (my attempt at describing how much ER contributes to overall improvements from what i call base setup)

add Giesemann:    20% (my attempt at working out how much the clock finally adds)

ER+Giesemann = 100% (again cant describe accurately how much better than standard network this sounds, but is very easy to hear it and worth having; i set this to 100% to make the numbers inbetween easy) 

[AfterDark.]

8 hours ago, LEO SOUND said:

@AfterDark.

 

Can you confirm to me that the master Clock Emperor Triple crown is in stock in a 75 ohm version and it is a sine wave. It is necessary to add a mini filter circuit for 75 ohm suddenly.

There is no need for an adapter too?

 

Hello! LEO SOUND,

 

Thanks for your interested. The master Clock Emperor Triple Crown in 75 ohm require to made to order in limited supply every month. This version is in sine wave.

 

The mini filter is designed to work with sine wave Giesemann, connect directly to EtherREGEN or Mutec MC3-USB. This filter is quite amazing tweak, which can improve the vocal and details. 

 

Have a nice day. 

 

Best Regards,

Adrian

AfterDark. 

[AfterDark.]

On 4/14/2021 at 5:35 AM, JonD said:

@skatbelt I did make sure I totally powered down the Bartok when i was changing the network setup; trying to ensure nothing stored is just being reused, since i was using one track to test for differences.

 

I just finished testing the setup with the EtherREGEN and then with and without the Giesemann EVA; and it does add some additional depth, vibrancy etc to the music; an improvement. I would say the EtherREGEN is delivering at least 70+% of the uplift and then the clock adds a little more; say 20-30%. On paper the Giesemann EVA is a higher spec than the standard REF10, but I am no expert, so don't know how the two compare in back to back tests.

 

Now to caveat, I am using a really cheap LPSU with my Giesemann EVA clock for now; the TeraDak is known to be towards the bottom of LPSUs in terms of performance. I would order another Farad Super3; however, I have already paid for a Sean Jacobs SR5T that will arrive towards the end of May. So I do expect that to make a difference. The SR5T was going to be used with a Melco N100; but I am not decided about that just yet. In any case, if i do go for the N100, I would get another Farad Super3 for the Giesemann EVA.

 

 

 

 

Hi! JonD,

 

Thanks for your good feedback. Please let the Giesemann EVA burn in for 7 days, the music will make you smile. The vocal will be so sweet and soundstage will be much wider. 

 

The specification on Giesemann EVA (-121dBC/Hz) is much higher then REF10 is around (-116dBC/Hz) on Phase Noise. 

The Allan Derivation is amazing low at 1s = 2.277 (measure of short term 1 second frequency stability) 

The Phase Noise is reaching limit to the highest level at -121dBC/Hz 

 

The power supply on Farad Super3 can improve the performance on your Giesemann Clock. 

 

Have a nice day.

 

Best Regards,

Adrian

AfterDark. 

 

 

 

[JonD]

6 hours ago, AfterDark. said:

 

Please let the Giesemann EVA burn in for 7 days, the music will make you smile. The vocal will be so sweet and soundstage will be much wider. 

 

 

Yes I waited for over a week once I had the Giesemann before attempting any kind of comparison. 👍

 

 

 

[FredA]

Hi. 

 

I placed my order almost three weeks ago for the top 3-input clock. Looking forward to it.