Afterdark Master Clock for Uptone EtherRegen

[ambre]

Hi Guys, 

 

This my initial review of the Afterdark Giesemann OXCO Clock (Emperor Crown) and its associated Afterdark 12V double outlet power supply.

 

To be clear, I have chosen a slightly better clock than as offered as entry level Prince including all cables etc. (1.0m Giesemann clock cable + 10% off discount code and 75ohm adaptor). 

Namely the Emperor Crown comparable in price for example with the entry level Cybershaft also offered by Afterdark. Ordered a week ago and arrived last Wednesday in the Netherlands. 😄

 

Now running for 5 days.  As stated by Afterdark let the clock burn in for 3hrs, it will improve after 7days, up to 35 days to optimal level. And the clock should always be powered on.

 

To be clear, I have chosen a slightly better clock than as offered as entry level called Prince. Namely the Emperor Crown. The offer included all cables etc. (= 1.0 mtr Giesemann clock, 75ohm adaptor; cable + 10% off discount code).  And with the Afterdark. Black Modernize LPS x GIESEMANN OCXO 10M Edition. Added with Carbon Fiber, Schurter Gold Fuse, Furutech NCF and 2x 0. 8m DC Cables. 

 

Total approx. € 910,00 including shipment and import taxes. That’s ¼ to 1/6 compared with well-known Master clocks.

Ps. The entry model is about HK§ 4000,00  cheaper and stated by Afterdark will give also “enough” improvement.

 

I use the EtherRegen powered by a Farad super3.  An expensive but immediately observable improvement over the standard Uptone power supply.

But the Afterdark Clock adds a lot of extra. All is playing on an Auralic Vega G2.1 etc.

 

 

 

 

The effect of this Afterdark master clock is much more layers and stereo depth resp 3D. Voices are clearer and the instruments are better placed resp. separated.

A very nice improvement to my ears and on my audio-system.

 

 

A new update will soon follow compared to other Master clocks. And hopefully with a Farad and / or an Uptone JS2 also powering this Afterdark Master Clock. 

After consultation with Afterdark how to achieve even more improvement was his advice. Upgrade the clock first you will hear the difference in a second and also a better power supply.  

 

I heartily recommend the Afterdark Master Clock approach. 

 

Best regards, Andreas

 

 

[scolley]

Thank you for this review @ambre. An interesting upgrade option well worth considering...

 

Has anyone else tried this? And if so, what did you think?

 

Thanks.

[ambre]

17 minutes ago, scolley said:

Thank you for this review @ambre. An interesting upgrade option well worth considering...

 

Has anyone else tried this? And if so, what did you think?

 

Thanks.

Look at YouTube as search for afterdark master clock

[R1200CL]

@ambre

Didn’t you open the clock and had a look inside ?

Edit:

Reading your other posts @uptone area, have you bought a second one. Same configuration ?

[ambre]

30 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

@ambre

Didn’t you open the clock and had a look inside ?

Edit:

Reading your other posts @uptone area, have you bought a second one. Same configuration ?

I have ordered a  BG7TBL OCXO.

Intend to sell immediately 

 

no not open YET ....do you want to built your own clocks as competitor of Afterdark?  Or you are a real DIY guy?

 

[R1200CL]

7 minutes ago, ambre said:

no not open YET ....do you want to built your own clocks as competitor of Afterdark?  Or you are a real DIY guy?

I have no intention of building my own clocks. It requires highly skilled people th get this right. Even Adrian isn’t designing this clocks himself. 
 

Even though I’m educated in electronics thousand years ago, I’m definitely not what should be under the DIY umbrella. 
Which remember I have a dual set of PCB to build a headphone amp from DIY site. Never order the parts 😃

 

I hope you as a “reviewer” wouldn’t mind open the clock and share pictures. It’s interesting to se good craftsmanship. What’s stopping you from not sharing the inside of such a nice device. 

[R1200CL]

@ambre

I answer your question here instead of Uptone tread. 

I’m focused on a new clock, more suited for the future. I can foresee I need of minimum dual isolated outputs. 
 

If you read my post in the other tread, I’ve raised som question and wishes for new clock. Some summarized here. 

• Leave the AC power input out. DC only. Save money, or use money on other areas in the design. 
• Proper verification of isolation of the outputs.
• Measurements with different power supplies. 
• Measurements with various noise and weight added (he has applied both methods in present design). 
• How to do measurements from sine in a square output without comprising measurements.
• What is the limit where there isn’t need for better measurements. (Impossible question?)

Again, please give Adrian time to be in control, and be patient. This is work intensive things. He is (I don’t know for sure) running a one man business. One mistake can be bad. He needs time to do it right first time.  Also we can’t tell him how to run his business, but I guess wishes regarding new products are allowed. I think his phase noise measurements is very promising. I think or hope myself that the double crown measurements would be sufficient for most. 
 As an example, I’m talking to Chinese suppliers of tungsten blocks, as low as $5. I like to further investigate if such an item is something that may can be considered by Adrian.

By opening your clock, you could measure the size of the used ocxo and help me and others understand a possible option of adding a tungsten block. 

 

[ambre]

45 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

I have no intention of building my own clocks. It requires highly skilled people th get this right. Even Adrian isn’t designing this clocks himself. 
 

Even though I’m educated in electronics thousand years ago, I’m definitely not what should be under the DIY umbrella. 
Which remember I have a dual set of PCB to build a headphone amp from DIY site. Never order the parts 😃

 

I hope you as a “reviewer” wouldn’t mind open the clock and share pictures. It’s interesting to se good craftsmanship. What’s stopping you from not sharing the inside of such a nice device. 

Hi R1200Cl, 

 

You stated ... you are educated in electronics thousand years ago, is this not outdated in the meantime.🥸

 

I don’t know what to look for ...if I would open the case. Besides that it voids the warranty too!

Ps. You are really persistent in asking about what’s in the box. Are you really capable to judge these lay-outs etc? Do you ask the Mutec, Sotm, Cybershaft ...upfront to share / show inner parts resp. Inside of their design to be judged by you? And if so than what does your opinion ....really add to the discussion? 

My advice is to ask Adrian of Afterdark and dealer of Cybershaft personally if he willing to share the lay-outs etc. And if so ....what will / has to be the outcome!

 

Ps-2: both the Afterdark as Cybershaft were sent John Swenson and Alex C  for futher investigation etc.....

To my ears my ... journey with Afterdark Giesemann is a good step in SQ for EtherRegen.
 

Maybe there are better Master  clocks with Square or Sin wave etc.  If you don’t want to experiment ... you should buy the excellent Mutec SE 120 or SOTM. Wanting to sit in ringside for a dime is an illusion.

Nb.  I plan to compare the Giesemann with both abovementioned brands at short notice. The cheap Bg7  resp.  $90 unit I will skip. 

 

Very best regards, Andreas

[AfterDark.]

On 2/1/2021 at 7:47 AM, R1200CL said:

@ambre

I answer your question here instead of Uptone tread. 

I’m focused on a new clock, more suited for the future. I can foresee I need of minimum dual isolated outputs. 
 

If you read my post in the other tread, I’ve raised som question and wishes for new clock. Some summarized here. 

• Leave the AC power input out. DC only. Save money, or use money on other areas in the design. 
• Proper verification of isolation of the outputs.
• Measurements with different power supplies. 
• Measurements with various noise and weight added (he has applied both methods in present design). 
• How to do measurements from sine in a square output without comprising measurements.
• What is the limit where there isn’t need for better measurements. (Impossible question?)

Again, please give Adrian time to be in control, and be patient. This is work intensive things. He is (I don’t know for sure) running a one man business. One mistake can be bad. He needs time to do it right first time.  Also we can’t tell him how to run his business, but I guess wishes regarding new products are allowed. I think his phase noise measurements is very promising. I think or hope myself that the double crown measurements would be sufficient for most. 
 As an example, I’m talking to Chinese suppliers of tungsten blocks, as low as $5. I like to further investigate if such an item is something that may can be considered by Adrian.

By opening your clock, you could measure the size of the used ocxo and help me and others understand a possible option of adding a tungsten block. 

 

 

 

This is the new design on 3 outputs version. The Linear Power Supply is build in for this Giesemann OCXO, the transformer is using special grade R-CORE, power regulators is special designed for audio to work with the Giesemann OCXO, so we are not plan to use external DC for this version. This triple output version will have 10 Master Clock outputs in Square Wave@75ohm. 

 

[R1200CL]

@AfterDark.

Which previous version of your other clocks can this be compared with ?

Thinking about phase noise. 
 

Outputs isolated of cause ?

 

There seems to be an option for future upgrade on top, as there is a plate that can be removed. 

[AfterDark.]

6 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

@AfterDark.

Which previous version of your other clocks can this be compared with ?

Thinking about phase noise. 

 

The triple output version of AfterDark. Giesemann OCXO will have two grades (Prince & Queen), the phase noise is below: 

 

GRADE	Phase Noise@ 10Hz	Phase Noise@ 1Hz
PRINCE	-131	-100
QUEEN	-132	-103

[R1200CL]

6 minutes ago, AfterDark. said:

The triple output of Giesemann OCXO will have two grades (Prince & Queen), the phase noise is below: 

Thanks. 
If one would like something equal to single double crown, is that just to add that clock in use ?

Or is a redesign required ?
 

[AfterDark.]

10 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

Thanks. 
If one would like something equal to single double crown, is that just to add that clock in use ?

Or is a redesign required ?

Hi R1200CL,

 

This option can be tailor made with Giesemann Emperor Double Crown as per special request accordingly. We shall add this new option for one like the best performance with OCXO in 3 outputs version, so it can suit your requirements. 

[R1200CL]

22 minutes ago, AfterDark. said:

so we are not plan to use external DC for this version.

Will it be easy to apply myself ?

As an example, it’s very common to do on a similar tweak on Singxer SU-1. 
 

If possible at all.
What would the minimum order number in a DC version require (like a group buy) ?

 

[R1200CL]

7 minutes ago, AfterDark. said:

We shall add this new option for one like the best performance with OCXO in 3 outputs version, so it can suit your requirements. 

Sounds great. So what you have done is simply to design a new PCB that is an add on to existing design, with isolation, square wave, 3 outputs. So it can probably be added to all present designs ?

[R1200CL]

@AfterDark.

As you probably know, on that other brand cheap clock, there was reported huge success in better SQ by adding a tungsten weight.

Can I easily do a similar tweak myself on your clock.

At the moment I’m offered 5X5X1 cm, which is just below half kilo to approximately $35 for each cube. 

[AfterDark.]

1 hour ago, R1200CL said:

Will it be easy to apply myself ?

As an example, it’s very common to do on a similar tweak on Singxer SU-1. 
 

If possible at all.
What would the minimum order number in a DC version require (like a group buy) ?

 

 

Hi! R1200CL,

 

For the Triple Version of Giesemann Clock, it is not possible to have a DC version. Due to special design, the linear power supply is tailor made to work with OCXO. The R-core transformer is special edition for the audio application on OCXO, so it will outperform some power supply without it. 

[AfterDark.]

2 hours ago, R1200CL said:

@AfterDark.

As you probably know, on that other brand cheap clock, there was reported huge success in better SQ by adding a tungsten weight.

Can I easily do a similar tweak myself on your clock.

At the moment I’m offered 5X5X1 cm, which is just below half kilo to approximately $35 for each cube. 

 

This is interesting, the weight and material can change sounding for sensitive digital equipment. We have customer using different material like block of Titanium on the dCS DAC. He is placing on the top of the DAC, so it is good try to put them on the top of chassis instead of inside, I am sure it is more convenience to try on different positions.  

[Ponkbutler]

Hi AfterDark,

 

Firstly, congratulations on now having your own forum!

 

I am another EtherRegen owner interested in a compact clock with DC only supply who has a good (Sean Jacobs) PSU with spare 12V output, and am waiting for the announced group buy to be finalised. 

 

I have a few questions in the meantime:

 

1) Why are the higher-performing versions called Giesemann? Is this the name of the OCXO?

 

3) Does it natively generate a square-wave or is it converted subsequently?

 

4) Would it be possible to get the Emperor with two outputs (I run two EtherRegens in a daisy chain configuration). Complicating matters, one has a 50 Ohm clock input while the other has a 75 Ohm clock input.

 

4) Would be possible to get a shorter clock cable? I believe as short as possible is the best solution and the clock and ER will be next to one another.

 

Many thanks for your patience.

 

Mike

[R1200CL]

It’s my understanding the all clocks are sine. 
Square wave is done afterwards. 
All measurements is done by sine. And before isolation, which may affect measurements slightly. 

[ambre]

3 hours ago, Ponkbutler said:

Hi AfterDark,

 

Firstly, congratulations on now having your own forum!

 

I am another EtherRegen owner interested in a compact clock with DC only supply who has a good (Sean Jacobs) PSU with spare 12V output, and am waiting for the announced group buy to be finalised. 

 

I have a few questions in the meantime:

 

1) Why are the higher-performing versions called Giesemann? Is this the name of the OCXO?

 

3) Does it natively generate a square-wave or is it converted subsequently?

 

4) Would it be possible to get the Emperor with two outputs (I run two EtherRegens in a daisy chain configuration). Complicating matters, one has a 50 Ohm clock input while the other has a 75 Ohm clock input.

 

4) Would be possible to get a shorter clock cable? I believe as short as possible is the best solution and the clock and ER will be next to one another.

 

Many thanks for your patience.

 

Mike

Please read the story of “The development of Giesemann OCXO Ref 10M Master Clock” in this same forum of Afterdark.

[Ponkbutler]

2 hours ago, ambre said:

Please read the story of “The development of Giesemann OCXO Ref 10M Master Clock” in this same forum of Afterdark.

I had read it and following your recommendation read through it again. It does not answer my questions, thank you.

[Ponkbutler]

5 hours ago, R1200CL said:

It’s my understanding the all clocks are sine. 
Square wave is done afterwards. 
All measurements is done by sine. And before isolation, which may affect measurements slightly. 

I am no expert whatsoever,  but that does not seem to be the case. Please see here, for example: Oscillator Basics

[AfterDark.]

9 hours ago, Ponkbutler said:

Hi AfterDark,

 

Firstly, congratulations on now having your own forum!

 

I am another EtherRegen owner interested in a compact clock with DC only supply who has a good (Sean Jacobs) PSU with spare 12V output, and am waiting for the announced group buy to be finalised. 

 

I have a few questions in the meantime:

 

1) Why are the higher-performing versions called Giesemann? Is this the name of the OCXO?

 

2) Does it natively generate a square-wave or is it converted subsequently?

 

3) Would it be possible to get the Emperor with two outputs (I run two EtherRegens in a daisy chain configuration). Complicating matters, one has a 50 Ohm clock input while the other has a 75 Ohm clock input.

 

4) Would be possible to get a shorter clock cable? I believe as short as possible is the best solution and the clock and ER will be next to one another.

 

Many thanks for your patience.

 

Mike

 

Hi! Mike, 

 

Thanks for your interest on Giesemann OCXO Clock. Using the good power supply (Sean Jacobs) can always improve the sounding for the 10M Master Clock. 

 

For the question above, we have answer for:

 

1) The flagship version called Giesemann & Giesemann EVA. This model is new developed and in very limited supply. Their phase noise and Allan Derivation is approaching the -120 dBC@1Hz and -143 dBC@10Hz. 

 

2) The square wave is converted from sine wave

 

3) This version can be tailor made as per your request. For the Ohm matching between 50ohm and 75ohm, we have matching adaptor which can turn the EtherREGEN from 75ohm to 50ohm. 

 

4) The AFTERDARK. PROJECT CLAYX GIESEMANN BNC 50OHM CLOCK CABLE can tailor made to 0.2m/0.3/0.5m/1.0m as per requested. 

 

We certainly can arrange a group buy for member of audiophilestyle.com, we are thinking of two models at the moments. 

 

Thanks for your questions. 

 

Adrian

AfterDark. 

[R1200CL]

@AfterDark.

Would you (or anyone else) happen to know price for this clock ?

https://www.morion-us.com/catalog_pdf/mv336m.pdf

 

It seems to be one of the best available in ULN version.