The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments

[kennyb123]

3 hours ago, FrankMA said:

 

Tired a few isolation changes (IsoAcoustics Orea Orange/Herbies) to no/little benefit. Been looking at the Symposium Svelte shelf to place the Farad/ER on since they are alone on the same shelf. However they recommend not putting anything on this shelf with rubber/sorbathane feet which both of these devices seem to have.

 

Anybody have experience with this product for a similar application?

 

Compliant feet will hinder the ability of Symposium shelves to draw energy out of devices.   Their solution is to couple devices to their shelves:  https://www.symposiumusa.com/pcouplers.html.  I found that when I placed a VPI Aries 3 turntable with their original metal cone feet on Svelte shelf that I was initially impressed.  But sometime afterward I placed Stillpoints under my speakers and it then became apparent that something was unnaturally coloring the sound of analog.  It turned out that the Svelte shelf was injecting energy back into my table.  I can’t say if using their couplers would have helped.  Just pointing out that care needs to be taken to find the right match.

[kennyb123]

2 hours ago, FrankMA said:

This is what the the re-configured system looks like (ER behind the Farad)

 

 

 

Awesome looking system!

[Snowman8888]

9 hours ago, Ponkbutler said:

I and others have found the EtherRegen can get "upset" after several cable swaps and start dropping out, after which it will require a power down and restart. Give it time for everything to properly discharge or you may find you have to do it twice.

Thanks Superdad and Ponkbutler for you responses. I tried the discharge recommendation as advised but it still dropped out. I have put my AQ Diamond back in - the two cables are very close in SQ but miles apart on cost! Thanks again. Nick. 

[audiotunesx]

4 hours ago, FrankMA said:

Tired a few isolation changes (IsoAcoustics Orea Orange/Herbies) to no/little benefit. Been looking at the Symposium Svelte shelf to place the Farad/ER on since they are alone on the same shelf. However they recommend not putting anything on this shelf with rubber/sorbathane feet which both of these devices seem to have.

 

Anybody have experience with this product for a similar application?

 

 

I have two svelte shelves:

First - Sits on a VTI stand (thin MDF), Cerapucs in between, Directstream Jr. on top.  The shelf gives a "stillpoints ultra ss" kind of effect with expansive soundstage, better imaging, etc.  It doesn't give the ultra fast speed that stillpoints would, but it is balanced from top to bottom and the bass is equally effected as the top.  Also tried it on a glass shelf before - even bigger difference, a must have.

Second - RSA Haley sits on it with HRS pucks - no metal contact.  I hear the same differences, just not the the extent as above.  I have numerous small Entreq ground boxes (made of wood), with BDR puck stack (mk4 puck, large puck, mk3 puck) underneath.  I can hear the change in warmth reversing the order.  This configuration helps refine the BDR sound by improving focus and soundstage.  I need BDR somewhere because this particular stack gives a very natural vinyl like bass signature.  The Entreq boxes had improved performance sitting on the Svelte with it's wooden feet and also the Herbies "baby" footers, but the BDR is much better.

 

Personally, I haven't yet experienced an issue with putting stuff of any material on the Svelte shelf.  The biggest improvement was with the metal cerapucs, but my system can't handle that sound character everywhere.  Matching the right footer to component in my opinion is more important than maximizing the Svelte by metal to metal contact.

 

On the PowerBase I have many items with stock feet, Sbooster MKII, Keces P3, TP-link FMC.  Tried putting Nordost BC Kones and the herbies "baby" footers, but this shelf is strange, everything sounds solid, focused, powerful just being placed directly on top.  

 

I'm on the next eR batch.  I intend on simply placing it on the second Svelte shelf that's close to the dac.  Given heat, light weight, potentially heavy cables tilting the eR, I'm uncertain if I'm going to put footers on or dampen.  I can try on the svelte shelf, off the svelte shelf and report on the difference later in July.  I believe earlier in this thread it was mentioned that Synergistic MiGs made a positive difference, I might give this a shot as well.

 

[jamesg11]

3 hours ago, audiotunesx said:

Given heat, light weight, potentially heavy cables tilting the eR

Herbies Supersonic Stabilisers ...

[flkin]

5 hours ago, FrankMA said:

 

I did space out the Phoenix and the Farad and was very happy with those changes. 

I got a bit impatient since I had to rearrange a bunch of items in my rack and added in:

1. Lush 2 replacement for my Lush 1
2. AQ Hurricance on the DAC (replacing an older Shunyata Python CX)

At these hours I was very impressed with what I was hearing:

Phoenix (611)

Farad (196)

AC Hurricane (106)

Lush 2 (118)

 

Was listening to Todd Rundgren's "Can We Still Be Friends" and I have never heard this song in my system sound this good. Depth, separation, clarity, punch in a very quiet background!

 

Continued my impatience and added in the Audios Sensibilities Signature Silver DC cable to the Farad. Nice uptick cold out of the box. That should improve going forward.

 

Tired a few isolation changes (IsoAcoustics Orea Orange/Herbies) to no/little benefit. Been looking at the Symposium Svelte shelf to place the Farad/ER on since they are alone on the same shelf. However they recommend not putting anything on this shelf with rubber/sorbathane feet which both of these devices seem to have.

 

Anybody have experience with this product for a similar application?

 

I have many Symposium products including a few of their thick Ultra platforms and many of their aluminum couplers. The couplers are machined very flat and allow you to have a very good vibrational conduit between the device placed on the platform and the platform itself. It’s so flat the pucks sticks slightly to the platform surface! The idea is to drain the vibrational energy from external sources but especially from inside the device into the multi layered foam substance inside the platform to dissipate it as heat. So the more you can stop the internal components like transformers, capacitors even resistors from shaking the better the components should work as designed and the better device should perform. 
 

Over the years I’ve used the platform with many devices with good results. Currently I have my streamer on the Ultra coupled with 5 aluminum pucks. Each one placed where it has maximum stiff and solid contact with the platform. My other components rest on their Isis platform which is more like the Svelte shelves. 
 

What I also do is decouple the platform also. So beneath the Ultra I place compliant products like Rollerblocks or the same. This helps reduce the vibrational energy from the floor (from speakers, traffic, seismic movements and the world at large) from getting into the platform and the device. Although I usually user Rollerblocks, I’m experimenting with these air-conditioning compressor isolation pucks with good results. 
 

https://www.supplyhouse.com/DiversiTech-MP-3E-E-V-A-Anti-Vibration-Pad-3-x-3-x-7-8

 

Learnt this from someone here 😄

The overall effect for my Streamer is a nice improvement in sound - as expected from my years of using Symposium products. For me it’s a critical item I use for everything in my hifi. 

[kennyb123]

1 hour ago, flkin said:

The overall effect for my Streamer is a nice improvement in sound - as expected from my years of using Symposium products. For me it’s a critical item I use for everything in my hifi. 

Beautiful system pictured in your profile.  I bet it sounds wonderful.

[flkin]

3 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

Beautiful system pictured in your profile.  I bet it sounds wonderful.

Thanks, yeah I’m pretty happy with the sound at the moment but it’s impossible not to continue to fiddle 😄

 

[FrankMA]

17 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

It turned out that the Svelte shelf was injecting energy back into my table.  I can’t say if using their couplers would have helped.  Just pointing out that care needs to be taken to find the right match.

Thanks @kennyb123 That was a worry. I know you are a big Stillpoints proponent. Do you find they add any brightness to your system?

 

 

[FrankMA]

16 hours ago, audiotunesx said:

On the PowerBase I have many items with stock feet, Sbooster MKII, Keces P3, TP-link FMC.  Tried putting Nordost BC Kones and the herbies "baby" footers, but this shelf is strange, everything sounds solid, focused, powerful just being placed directly on top.  

 

I'm on the next eR batch.  I intend on simply placing it on the second Svelte shelf that's close to the dac.  Given heat, light weight, potentially heavy cables tilting the eR, I'm uncertain if I'm going to put footers on or dampen.  I can try on the svelte shelf, off the svelte shelf and report on the difference later in July.  I believe earlier in this thread it was mentioned that Synergistic MiGs made a positive difference, I might give this a shot as well.

 

Thanks @audiotunesx  I really need to go through the work to add the Powerbase and try it for the Farad/ER. I have to reconfigure that shelf due to height restrictions since I'm using that Darko Door Stop as a resonance/stability device on the ER.

 

Interested to hear you you make out in July

[FrankMA]

7 hours ago, flkin said:

Over the years I’ve used the platform with many devices with good results. Currently I have my streamer on the Ultra coupled with 5 aluminum pucks. Each one placed where it has maximum stiff and solid contact with the platform. My other components rest on their Isis platform which is more like the Svelte shelves. 
 

What I also do is decouple the platform also. So beneath the Ultra I place compliant products like Rollerblocks or the same. This helps reduce the vibrational energy from the floor (from speakers, traffic, seismic movements and the world at large) from getting into the platform and the device. Although I usually user Rollerblocks, I’m experimenting with these air-conditioning compressor isolation pucks with good results. 
 

https://www.supplyhouse.com/DiversiTech-MP-3E-E-V-A-Anti-Vibration-Pad-3-x-3-x-7-8

 

Learnt this from someone here 😄

The overall effect for my Streamer is a nice improvement in sound - as expected from my years of using Symposium products. For me it’s a critical item I use for everything in my hifi. 

 

Thanks @flkin  When you say Rollerblocks are you talking Herbie's?  Interesting use of a AC anti-vibration product. Certainly cheap enough to try

[flkin]

47 minutes ago, FrankMA said:

 

Thanks @flkin  When you say Rollerblocks are you talking Herbie's?  Interesting use of a AC anti-vibration product. Certainly cheap enough to try

No, I’m referring to the Symposium Rollerblocks. It’s basically tungsten balls in cups in different configurations. I didn’t know Herbie’s makes Rollerblocks also. I use their tube dampeners only. 
 

The EVA dampeners work a treat - especially under the aircon compressors in my home so you can use them there if it doesn’t work in your hifi! 😄

[drjimwillie]

I received the SFP transceiver.

The way it arrived was strange, I’m alone in my house installing four cabinets under the stairs, with 25 drawers and trays. I started it when it looked like they were going to shut down the world and ordered 11 sheets of plywood.

I noticed my front door was open, which was strange because no one else is here, and I looked and there was a package. It is the transceiver, that fast. if the door had not opened it would’ve sat there all day.

 

I installed it, and no light at first.

I power cycled it and after a little while, a yellow light came on and it had life.
It is working and I’m very happy about that.

my first foray into fiber optics. 
thank you for the help. 

 

I don’t know yet if the isolation from the Wi-Fi is sounding better. I will have to let things settle in and see if I can Hear a difference or not.

[kennyb123]

5 hours ago, FrankMA said:

I know you are a big Stillpoints proponent. Do you find they add any brightness to your system?

 

 

I have heard the claim that Stillpoints shift thing in that direction, but have never heard that myself.  A friend has taken Stillpoints further than I have with their ESS rack - and it is the best system I’ve heard.

 

The surface on which these sit matters, so that may have something to do with the reports of them adding brightness.  In my case, I almost all my Stillpoints sit on bamboo shelves, as I found bamboo to enhance the effectiveness of Stillpoints.  With my previous rack I made use of a lot of IKEA bamboo cutting boards.  Last year I moved to a Quadraspire SVT rack with solid bamboo shelves.  

[sandervdp]

After enjoying the EtherRegen for more than 6 months now, have decided to go ahead and order a second one

The EtherRegen has so dramatically increased the enjoyment I get out of my set music, that it's worth seeing what another one upstream might do

 

See below for my system setup. The EtherRegen will replace the Netgear in this setup. Any ideas on how the moat should be crossed? Cable modem on the b-side, everything else (oppo, mac mini, apple tv, downstream etherregen) on the a-side? That should isolate it from the rest of the network most, right? And the second etherregen will create another moat to isolate the streamer from the server/etc. Is that correct?

And is it worth experimenting with fiber in between the etherregens? 

Also happy to hear any other suggestions for experiments

[robocop]

Hi Sandervdp I would have thought your first link between Cable modem and Netgear FS105 is your weakest link. This should have the best cable possible. Robert

[skatbelt]

On 7/3/2020 at 10:21 PM, sandervdp said:

After enjoying the EtherRegen for more than 6 months now, have decided to go ahead and order a second one

The EtherRegen has so dramatically increased the enjoyment I get out of my set music, that it's worth seeing what another one upstream might do

 

See below for my system setup. The EtherRegen will replace the Netgear in this setup. Any ideas on how the moat should be crossed? Cable modem on the b-side, everything else (oppo, mac mini, apple tv, downstream etherregen) on the a-side? That should isolate it from the rest of the network most, right? And the second etherregen will create another moat to isolate the streamer from the server/etc. Is that correct?

And is it worth experimenting with fiber in between the etherregens? 

Also happy to hear any other suggestions for experiments

 

My suggestion: keep it 'as is' and go fiber to the etherREGEN by placing a Sonore opticalModule between the Netgear and the EtherREGEN. You could power the oM with the JS-2 or go with a separate LPS. So, no 2nd EtherREGEN!

[kennyb123]

58 minutes ago, robocop said:

Hi Sandervdp I would have thought your first link between Cable modem and Netgear FS105 is your weakest link. This should have the best cable possible. Robert

Why do you say that?  

[simon_pepper]

On 7/3/2020 at 9:21 PM, sandervdp said:

After enjoying the EtherRegen for more than 6 months now, have decided to go ahead and order a second one

The EtherRegen has so dramatically increased the enjoyment I get out of my set music, that it's worth seeing what another one upstream might do

 

See below for my system setup. The EtherRegen will replace the Netgear in this setup. Any ideas on how the moat should be crossed? Cable modem on the b-side, everything else (oppo, mac mini, apple tv, downstream etherregen) on the a-side? That should isolate it from the rest of the network most, right? And the second etherregen will create another moat to isolate the streamer from the server/etc. Is that correct?

And is it worth experimenting with fiber in between the etherregens? 

Also happy to hear any other suggestions for experiments

Given that your current EtherREGEN is only connected to your networked DAC, on a A-B port configuration, you could replicate that on an upstream EtherREGEN, with the 4 Gigabit ports used for Modem, Oppo, ATV and MacMini, with the B port @ 100Mbps serving the ‘downstream’ EtherREGEN. This would give double isolation but maybe not double the SQ return.

 

Have you tried moving the EtherREGEN upstream to replace the Netgear, and feeding the DAC on the B port from the 10M Ethernet cable? The EtherREGEN has enough Gigabit A ports for the Router, ATV, Oppo and MAC Mini.

 

As suggested you could replace the 10M connection from Netgear to EtherREGEN with optical, either using a Sonore Optical Module or a switch with 4 Gigabit ports and 1 STP for optical.

You could use a EtherREGEN here to, but you won’t be using the B port & MOAT.

 

Another suggestion is, can your ISP provided Modem/Router operate in ‘Pass through’ mode and replace the Netgear with a Commerical grade VPN WAN router (and maybe one with a STP port). This would take out the router function in the ISP provided equipment.

 

However I do feel that you had 

[robocop]

I said that only because Sandervdp has used a Belden Cat 6 cable first link between Cable modem and Netgear FS105 and the rest are Ghent JSG's. Surely one should have a Ghent JSG at this first stage or the best quality cable available. I mean this is the first wire link to the router which carries all the signals to be split at the router. Mind you assuming that the Ghent is better than the Belden, by all accounts in this forum it is rated better, I would not know as I have never tried the Ghent. I run Dynamix Cat 6 all the way from Fibre Modem, router to computer. But interested in what Cat 7 and 8 might do. Robert

[simon_pepper]

13 hours ago, simon_pepper said:

However I do feel that you had 

Sorry, missed off the end

 

However, I do feel that you had the best improvement from the EtherREGEN in front of your DAC/Streamer. Yes, you can maybe get more, it will be fractional incremental improvements.

[Jud]

34 minutes ago, robocop said:

I said that only because Sandervdp has used a Belden Cat 6 cable first link between Cable modem and Netgear FS105 and the rest are Ghent JSG's. Surely one should have a Ghent JSG at this first stage or the best quality cable available. I mean this is the first wire link to the router which carries all the signals to be split at the router. Mind you assuming that the Ghent is better than the Belden, by all accounts in this forum it is rated better, I would not know as I have never tried the Ghent. I run Dynamix Cat 6 all the way from Fibre Modem, router to computer. But interested in what Cat 7 and 8 might do. Robert

I don’t recall whether the shield is connected with the Ghent. I don’t think it is, meaning it should be fine to use there.

[sandervdp]

hi all, thanks for the comments, really helpful

 

i've attached topologies of various experiments, and a very subjective score on my enjoyment as a result

hopefully that gives some insight and what works and doesn't work in my system

- 1: ran microrendu, ultrarendu for a long time, which I never really enjoyed for some reason, could be totaldac not liking the usb

- 2: big change when I switched to the Ambre, and ran AES/EBU into the totaldac

- 3: small improvement with an Adagio replacing the totaldac (possibly due to I2S, definitely better than AES/EBU on the Adagio)

- 4: this is where I started, as suggested by @simon_pepper was pretty good 

- 5: tried the etherregen closer to the streamer, with SMPS plugged into shared circuit, not good, all digital harsh was back, this was worse than the netgear

- 6: the SMPS powering the etherregen from the dedicated circuit was a big improvement, and best setup till then

- 7: the Farad brought a nice improvement, really happy with the sound currently

 

I replaced the SMPS from the cable modem with a medical grade SMPS, but no noteworthy changes, so don't feel like experimenting more upstream, unless you all think otherwise.

 

I liked the suggestions for the OpticalModule

However, I also use this system to stream netflix/movies (oppo connected to dac over s/pdif)

So was thinking that an upstream etherregen would improve the quality of the apple tv stream signal as well, an optical module would not do that

 

I see couple of experiments for the upstream etherregen:

- router on B, everything else on A, to create a moat from the ISP/rest of the network

- in this setup, could try fiber to isolate the two etherregens even more

- all equipment on A, B to downstream etherregen to create double moat

 

Will post back if the etherregen comes in and can run these experiments

thanks all for your thoughts so far

[simon_pepper]

Ok, so try a derivation of this one, with the Farad Super3 on the dedicated Power Circuit powering the EtherREGEN.

The JS-2 is still on the MacMini, and maybe the now spare 12v that was on the EtherREGEN on the ISP Modem/Router, thar just so it doesn’t go to waste!

[simon_pepper]

And I got a better picture from the ATV when plugged into the A ports of the EtherREGEN