The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments

[R1200CL]

On 7/7/2020 at 5:59 PM, Vangelis said:

I want to mate a better power supply with my EtherRegen. It looks like the sweet spot for pricing / performance might be a Farad Super 3. Farad recommends the 7v 3A PS. This is rated higher on the amperage then recommended by Uptone Audio:

  7V/1.4A, 9V/1.0A, 12V/0.8A. 
Is this extra 1 1/2 amp an issue at all?

Does higher voltage sound better or is the 7v just fine? 

You should really consider https://www.paulhynesdesign.com/sr4t  Same price and consider slightly better. 
Order now, and you should have it available August, unless they have some available now. 

[Mike Rubin]

On 7/8/2020 at 5:55 PM, Mike Rubin said:

I finally found it on Amazon. It wasn’t showing up in searches because it appears to be discontinued.

 

Here’s a similar, albeit somewhat uglier, product:

https://www.amazon.com/Vertical-Space-Saving-Aluminum-Adjustable-Compatible/dp/B07PRRQQYH?pf_rd_r=ST2V5DC2FJT773ZM7JCR&pf_rd_p=be25f964-4afb-442f-819e-9e628b270a7c&pd_rd_r=1f861a76-4a3a-4af1-971f-281c14fdd2eb&pd_rd_w=MuDlw&pd_rd_wg=HDf09&ref_=pd_gw_ci_mcx_mr_hp_d

 

Don’t buy that piece to which I linked at Amazon.  Even fully-extended, its channels are not wide enough to allow insertion of an ER or CAPS. 

[sahmen]

On 7/8/2020 at 3:51 PM, Mike Rubin said:

Sahmen, where did you find this?  I come up short at the US Amazon site when I search for this pic using Google Images.

 

Here:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B088T4HF82/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

For some reason, its availability is intermittent, and it is hard to reach with a search when it is unavailable, as it is now.  However, it does become available from time to time. In order to get my second one, for example,  I had to place a watch on it, and get notified once it became available again. I use it with both the Etherregen and the LPS 1.2 which is currently powering my Optical Module. 

 

I should mention however, that although it holds both the ER and LPS 1.2 securely enough to prevent them from falling off, or even fitting loosely, the slots do not open wide enough to allow them to be inserted as deeply as I would have ideally liked. However, since they insert far enough to prevent any looseness in the desired sideways/upright position that helps to keep both units a bit cooler than they normally are when standing on their own legs, I accept the result as a satisfactory job. 

[Pokey77]

So, I purchased a Roku Streaming Stick a month or so ago. Bought it so I could download some apps and have new streaming options. I noticed that the Roku sounded much better than the app built into my TV and that maybe it had slightly better PQ as well. I know this isn't related to the ER, yet. But wanted to preface how the discussion below came about.

 

I've been meaning to try experiment with my TVs network connection as it has always been connected to my router. So last night I swapped some cables around. I connected the TV to the "A" side of the ER and the SQ took a small but significant jump. It was really in the micro detail where it was evident along with a larger presentation of the sound stage with nice depth and perhaps the sound is a bit cleaner as well. I used a new Netflix show with excellent PQ/SQ, "Don't Crack Under Pressure III" to try to ascertain the change from acquiring a network signal from the router vs the "A" side of the ER. In terms of picture quality, it seemed mostly a draw. But again, in the finer details it seemed that the ER won out and I think overall the PQ was slightly improved. I have not tried the "B" side of the ER to the TV as it is dedicated to making music with my N10. I do know this though, I will leave the TV connected to the ER because it brings better sound and that for me is enough.

[Mike Rubin]

10 hours ago, sahmen said:

 

Here:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B088T4HF82/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o05_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

For some reason, its availability is intermittent, and it is hard to reach with a search when it is unavailable, as it is now.  However, it does become available from time to time. In order to get my second one, for example,  I had to place a watch on it, and get notified once it became available again. I use it with both the Etherregen and the LPS 1.2 which is currently powering my Optical Module. 

 

I should mention however, that although it holds both the ER and LPS 1.2 securely enough to prevent them from falling off, or even fitting loosely, the slots do not open wide enough to allow them to be inserted as deeply as I would have ideally liked. However, since they insert far enough to prevent any looseness in the desired sideways/upright position that helps to keep both units a bit cooler than they normally are when standing on their own legs, I accept the result as a satisfactory job. 

Thanks for the information, Sahmen.  I am using this, but liked the idea of getting some air flowing underneath the units. This stand does a fine job of gripping both units, but they still get pretty toasty.

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085MC6ZGL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

 

[Gcdrum]

I just installed the EtherREGEN a few days ago and am considering a Paul Hynes SR4T power supply in the future. Please help me with the proper grounding of this combination.

 

The PH SR4T is supposedly a floating design and so requires grounding from the ER ground screw. However, the ER operating instructions state “Please keep in mind that all of the above regarding grounding concerns only the blocking of leakage from one RJ45 jack on the ‘A’ side to another RJ45 jack also on the 'A' side.“

 

I only have a single Ethernet cable going into the A side. Not 2 or more as referenced in the quote above. 
Questions:

1. I only have one RJ45 ETHERNET input on the A side, so is grounding NOT needed?

2. How do you send a ground wire to an AC mains ground, as suggested in the operating instructions? 
 

Thanks for your assistance!

[kennyb123]

35 minutes ago, Gcdrum said:

The PH SR4T is supposedly a floating design and so requires grounding from the ER ground screw. However, the ER operating instructions state “Please keep in mind that all of the above regarding grounding concerns only the blocking of leakage from one RJ45 jack on the ‘A’ side to another RJ45 jack also on the 'A' side.“

 

I only have a single Ethernet cable going into the A side. Not 2 or more as referenced in the quote above. 
Questions:

1. I only have one RJ45 ETHERNET input on the A side, so is grounding NOT needed?

2. How do you send a ground wire to an AC mains ground, as suggested in the operating instructions? 

Yes, it is my understanding that you need not worry about grounding if you have only one thing connected to the A side.  It’s only addressing leakage between multiple A devices.

[BigAlMc]

I recall reading a note recommending not using LAN cables with metal connectors on the ER and from memory it was specific to one side.

 

Can someone with a better memory than mine please remind me or point me towards this advice?

 

There's three potential threads and search hasn't helped.

 

Specifically I'm wondering about Fibre into SFP and the Sablon LAN out of the B side. Is the metal connector on the Sablon a concern here?

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

[R1200CL]

1 hour ago, BigAlMc said:

I recall reading a note recommending not using LAN cables with metal connectors on the ER and from memory it was specific to one side.

Metal connectors is intended to do better shielding. 
But if the cable is following the Ethernet specification 100%, that connector is connected to cable shield and hence you can create unwanted leakage between equipment. You can test this by using a ohmmeter on the cable.  Maybe email Sablon and ask them ?
 

Audioquest Vodka is an example that doesn’t follow spec, and you can use it. 
This cable is another you can use. 
 

Hope this helps. 

[Ponkbutler]

The Sablon is a perfectly good cable and the shielding is floating, meaning it is not connected to the metal connector

[BigAlMc]

Thanks @R1200CL & @Ponkbutler

 

Appreciated.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[roman410]

10 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

I recall reading a note recommending not using LAN cables with metal connectors on the ER and from memory it was specific to one side.

 

Can someone with a better memory than mine please remind me or point me towards this advice?

 

There's three potential threads and search hasn't helped.

 

Specifically I'm wondering about Fibre into SFP and the Sablon LAN out of the B side. Is the metal connector on the Sablon a concern here?

 

Cheers,

Alan

 

Hi

 

I am very happy with my  Sablon Panatela Lan cables. Sure it is not cheap but for me worth every penny. I have two in my network the 2020 last model between EtherRegen and MicroRendu, and original version between buffalo switch and EtherRegen. Higli recommending!

[BigAlMc]

13 hours ago, roman410 said:

Hi

 

I am very happy with my  Sablon Panatela Lan cables. Sure it is not cheap but for me worth every penny. I have two in my network the 2020 last model between EtherRegen and MicroRendu, and original version between buffalo switch and EtherRegen. Higli recommending!

 

Yeah Mark's cables are definitely not cheap and the fact he prices in USD makes them feel more expensive in the UK due to the terrible USD/GBP exchange rate.

 

But they are terrific and sound lovely.

 

I have the original LAN but am considering upgrading to the 2020. That's the reason I posted my question here.

 

Cheers,

Alan

[roman410]

In my case the delta different  between original version of Sablon Lan and 2020 version was bigger like different between my  previous favorite no name cat 6a with JSSG treatment and original Sablon.

 

Roman

 

[BigAlMc]

50 minutes ago, roman410 said:

In my case the delta different  between original version of Sablon Lan and 2020 version was bigger like different between my  previous favorite no name cat 6a with JSSG treatment and original Sablon.

 

Roman

 

Dammit man, why would you go and give me that as a data point 😉

 

 

[roman410]

Only, want you to keep support the economy! 😄

[kzs70]

On 6/21/2020 at 12:12 AM, audiotunesx said:

 

 Keces P3 was actually more sensitive to fuse change than the PC. 

 

Hello,

 

I am thinking about upgrading the fuse in my Keces P3 too. I have checked the rating of the fuse originally installed in it, and it seems a T1.0A  type (it is hard to read).

Which type/rating fuse did you replace it with? Was it the SR Blue?

 

Thanks,

Zsolt

 

 

[Mike Rubin]

 

If this question has been asked and answered, I missed it.

 

I have been using a Cable Matters CAT-8, a ~$20 cable, between my RJ-45 wall plug and my etherregen B side.  From the etherregen, I am running fibre to the Signature Rendu SE.  Going to the Cable Matters from a Monoprice CAT-8 made a slight difference in bass energy, but, otherwise, it wasn't a massive change, at least to my age-impaired ears.  However, it was a difference, so I have become a believer that ethernet cables can change a system's sound to some degree. 

 

What I wonder is this:  is mine the optimum application for a high end ethernet cable?  I have been reading crazy stuff about the 2020 Sablon ethernet cables.  I would readily consider experimenting with a non-budget cable like the Sablon if, like most of you, I were connecting the etherregen to the player by copper off the B side, but I suspect that the etherregen's isolation "moat" does act as a filter for whatever comes in on the other side.  Is that likely to be the case?

 

In your experiments with ethernet cables, have any of you found that it made a huge difference where you placed the better cables?  Any chance any of you have tried the Sablon in particular in an optically-oriented setup like mine?  Any information gratefully received. 

[acousticsguru]

1 hour ago, Mike Rubin said:

 

If this question has been asked and answered, I missed it.

 

I have been using a Cable Matters CAT-8, a ~$20 cable, between my RJ-45 wall plug and my etherregen B side.  From the etherregen, I am running fibre to the Signature Rendu SE.  Going to the Cable Matters from a Monoprice CAT-8 made a slight difference in bass energy, but, otherwise, it wasn't a massive change, at least to my age-impaired ears.  However, it was a difference, so I have become a believer that ethernet cables can change a system's sound to some degree. 

 

What I wonder is this:  is mine the optimum application for a high end ethernet cable?  I have been reading crazy stuff about the 2020 Sablon ethernet cables.  I would readily consider experimenting with a non-budget cable like the Sablon if, like most of you, I were connecting the etherregen to the player by copper off the B side, but I suspect that the etherregen's isolation "moat" does act as a filter for whatever comes in on the other side.  Is that likely to be the case?

 

In your experiments with ethernet cables, have any of you found that it made a huge difference where you placed the better cables?  Any chance any of you have tried the Sablon in particular in an optically-oriented setup like mine?  Any information gratefully received. 

 

While I haven't tried your figuration, my guess is that "isolation" in this scenario is referring to noise, and that we assume that noise is what makes a difference sonically. The problem is that in my experience, anything appeared to make a minor difference. Not going to use superlatives, but a difference, and for the most part, worthwhile. I'd give it a try at least if you can get a sample cable. My concern is that I've tried ones that are said to be reference level and that sounded worse than the reasonably priced one I'm using now, so I wouldn't buy blind. What you summed up as less than a "massive change" is pretty much what I'd expect with any ethernet cable (having said that, some are indeed better than others, certainly in a given setup). Be sure to at least try an unshielded cable such as CAT6 - unless you have massive EMI/RFI problems, unshielded is the way to go with audio. Just my two cents worth, of course…

 

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

[Mike Rubin]

7 minutes ago, acousticsguru said:

 

While I haven't tried your figuration, my guess is that "isolation" in this scenario is referring to noise, and that we assume that noise is what makes a difference sonically. The problem is that in my experience, anything appeared to make a minor difference. Not going to use superlatives, but a difference, and for the most part, worthwhile. I'd give it a try at least if you can get a sample cable. My concern is that I've tried ones that are said to be reference level and that sounded worse than the reasonably priced one I'm using now, so I wouldn't buy blind. What you summed up as less than a "massive change" is pretty much what I'd expect with any ethernet cable (having said that, some are indeed better than others, certainly in a given setup). Be sure to at least try an unshielded cable such as CAT6 - unless you have massive EMI/RFI problems, unshielded is the way to go with audio. Just my two cents worth, of course…

 

Greetings from Switzerland, David.

Before switching to CAT-8, I was using the CAT-6A Blue Jean cable that Sonore recommended, but I found that the bass energy increased with both CAT-8's I tried, one more than the other.  All three cables were less than $20 a unit.  As my system was surprisingly bass shy, that was an improvement I appreciated.  Beyond that, I couldn't tell you that any of these cheapo cables is appreciably better than the others or any of the generics I used before them, especially as I am experiencing some high frequency hearing loss.  Because I have found some surprising changes from cable swapping of all sorts, I remain open to the idea that things always could be better, though, even with these ears.

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, Mike Rubin said:

Any chance any of you have tried the Sablon in particular in an optically-oriented setup like mine?

 

Not in exactly that configuration, no. Although - when it comes to SQ with network tweaks, I find two tenets to hold true:

• Changes further upstream can sometimes (but not always!) have an unexpectedly great impact, and
• The magnitude of change is highly system-dependent, so whether the change is "worth it" can only be determined by you after trying it. Hence...

 

14 minutes ago, acousticsguru said:

I'd give it a try at least if you can get a sample cable.

 

+1

 

Luckily Mark is good about sending out one of his sample cables in circulation.

 

Of course, the other thing that could make an equal or greater impact is the choice of SFPs, but assuming you've got that already sorted.

 

 

[ray-dude]

FWIW, I have ATT Fiber -> ATT Lucent ONT -> EdgeRouterX SFP -> opticalModule -> Extreme.

 

I can very clearly (and happily) hear the Sablon ethernet cable between the ONT and ERX, and between ERX and oM (the later being more impactful).  As I detailed in my long Extreme write up, the EtherRegen moat held back the Extreme, and it worked better when using the EtherRegen as a FMC (optical and copper on the same side, not going across the moat).  In this FMC configuration, I prefered the oM to the EtherRegen.  When I was experimenting with the EtherRegen going across the moat, the impact of the Sablon ethernet was clear as well.

 

Net net, at least in my chain, the Sablon Ethernet cables made a (still) surprising difference very far from the business end of the signal.  I still don't understand why or how that could be, but empirically, that's what I'm hearing.

 

To echo Rajiv's note, Mark is incredibly generous with his loaner cables (and it has worked...I have Sablon ethernet cables, USB cables, and power cord now...all had a "first 5 seconds, yup this is the one" impact in my system).

[Mike Rubin]

12 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Of course, the other thing that could make an equal or greater impact is the choice of SFPs, but assuming you've got that already sorted.

 

 

Just using the stock Sonore Trendnet SFP in the Rendu and a similar spec'ed one (juniper-branded Finisar) for the ER.  Is it likely I would do much better with others?

[austinpop]

17 minutes ago, Mike Rubin said:

Just using the stock Sonore Trendnet SFP in the Rendu and a similar spec'ed one (juniper-branded Finisar) for the ER.  Is it likely I would do much better with others?

Yes. Search back for references to the Planet Tech and Finisar SFPs. 

[auricgoldfinger]

21 minutes ago, Mike Rubin said:

Just using the stock Sonore Trendnet SFP in the Rendu and a similar spec'ed one (juniper-branded Finisar) for the ER.  Is it likely I would do much better with others?

 

These are the latest and greatest Finisar transceivers: https://optical.communications.ii-vi.com/optical-transceivers/ftlf1318p3btl

 

They connect my two switches to one another.  I was previously using the Planet Technology.  I did not like the earlier generation Finisar in my system.