The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments

[further]

Alex,

 

Funny, I went to the  ebay link to check out the stand and saw in UK as well.  I closed and was going to check out for US as well, and saw your post first--thanks.  I still have microRendu feeding one of my DACS and thought I would check out one of these testing on both ER and microRendu.  If happy for both, I will order another.  

[Tintinabulum]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

Then I noticed your link was in the UK

Do you mean UK, China? We don't make stuff anymore...

 

[jamesg11]

9 hours ago, simon_pepper said:

A square cork pad underneath (my EtherREGEN is behind my Audio racks, on the floor, so the cork pad provides some insulation and isolation) and a Herbie Audio SuperSonic Stabilizer on top.

 

Have a SuperSonic Stabilizer on top of the UltraRendu as well.
Also the same type of square cork pad is underneath the NUC running ROCK, as well.

SS Stabilizers here too, on all these low mass items prone to movement thru chunky cables etc - ER, uRendu, lps1s, even isoRegen.

[ssh]

I checked out the stand on Amazon, the middle vertical wall is fixed and the two outer wings adjust in and out.

I bought one to hold an LPS-1,2 and an eR. $25 or so.

[Mike Rubin]

2 hours ago, ssh said:

I checked out the stand on Amazon, the middle vertical wall is fixed and the two outer wings adjust in and out.

I bought one to hold an LPS-1,2 and an eR. $25 or so.

SSH, thanks for this information.

 

Alex, I am thinking of using this solution, as well.  You mentioned above that two units placed into the wells might be too close to one another for proper breathing.  I know you haven't tried this, so won't hold you to any answer you might provide, but, if you had to guess, how big a risk do you think it would be to place both an ER and an LPS 1.2 into the same stand?  Would it matter whether the tops or the bottoms faced one another or if one top faced a bottom?

[Roasty]

13 hours ago, simon_pepper said:

A square cork pad underneath (my EtherREGEN is behind my Audio racks, on the floor, so the cork pad provides some insulation and isolation) and a Herbie Audio SuperSonic Stabilizer on top.

 

Have a SuperSonic Stabilizer on top of the UltraRendu as well.
Also the same type of square cork pad is underneath the NUC running ROCK, as well.

 

I saw the Supersonic Stabilizer on Herbie's website. What did u think of it? I bought a black magic usb cable and they gave a free sample of some nano discus which I thought didn't change anything sound wise no matter where I placed it. 

 

Also thanks everyone else for the links for the stands. Going to order some to try. 

[further]

I have the Supersonic Stabilizer and Tenderfoot "feet" for the ER and under  microRendu.  The additional weight is not enough to prevent movement should a stiffer ethernet cable like Ghent be used and movement on ethernet cable to microRendu or USB from the microRendu be moved.  If I don't fool with connections on the microRendu, generally ok but the stiff ethernet cable to the ER poses recurring issues for me.  Since the Supersonic Stabilizer was unable to correct this, I removed it from top of the ER thinking I would lower heat generating from the ER by providing more uninsulated surface area.  I like Herbie's items, including the Supersonic Stabilizer but could not keep the ER on the Tenderfoot feet.  My DC cable for SoTM sPS-1000 is also pretty short length which also limited my postionng of the ER.  Your situation may be such these would not be issues for you.  I am hopeful the computer vertical holder may alleviate these issues.  If it works well for that, I will probably put Tenderfoot feet under this holder for better isolation on the ER.

[austinpop]

5 hours ago, Superdad said:

As much as I was hoping the conversation would move on from weights and stands (

Oh dear... is this topic OT? If so, apologies. Please move as appropriate.

[Mike Rubin]

I ordered this:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085MC6ZGL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

I am concerned about the ER and LPS 1.2 creating problems for one another if heat isn't dissipated because of their proximity to one another, but I guess I am willing to try this for the sake of a heater equipment installation and hope it doesn't blow up equipment.

 

Since my ER and LPS have feet, my thinking is to have the bottom sides face one another so there is at least a bit of distance between each and the common wall.  It has occurred to me, though, that that might create a chimney between the two that might heat both units even more than if they were in the open.  In that case, top to top might make more sense, even if it brings the units a bit closer to one another.

 

I know zero about thermodynamics.

[Mike Rubin]

51 minutes ago, Mike Rubin said:

I ordered this:

 

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B085MC6ZGL/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

I am concerned about the ER and LPS 1.2 creating problems for one another if heat isn't dissipated because of their proximity to one another, but I guess I am willing to try this for the sake of a heater equipment installation and hope it doesn't blow up equipment.

 

Since my ER and LPS have feet, my thinking is to have the bottom sides face one another so there is at least a bit of distance between each and the common wall.  It has occurred to me, though, that that might create a chimney between the two that might heat both units even more than if they were in the open.  In that case, top to top might make more sense, even if it brings the units a bit closer to one another.

 

I know zero about thermodynamics.

I guess I missed my editing window for my last post.  

 

I want to try this for the sake of a "neater" equipment installation, not a "heater" one.  I am hoping not to create a "heater" one in the process. 😄

[austinpop]

On 5/27/2020 at 12:39 PM, austinpop said:

I just did a little experiment with some marble coasters I had lying around the house. Each one weighs 0.5lb (226gm for our metric friends).

 

in my configuration, with a heavy Ethernet and clock cable on the B side, and a flimsy LC-LC fiber cable on the A side, I needed 4 coasters to completely prevent tilting.

 

So for me, a 2lb/1kg weight is necessary.

 

These look interesting, but the tops are rounded, so will have to use the  silica gel treads on the eR hot surface.

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01MFEC211/

 

These arrived today, and they work great in terms of weight. For now, I am using it upside down, even though the top is slightly rounded. Thankfully, its net thermal effect is positive, and despite the limited contact area from the rounded top, there is a net reduction in temperature of about 5º F.

 

 

I would have been happy with no thermal change as well. Aesthetically it would be nicer to rest it with the silica gel tread on the eR, but I need to figure out if the tread can stand the heat.

 

I have 2 more left over for other small components. 

[Blake]

55 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Aesthetically it would be nicer to rest it with the silica gel tread on the eR, but I need to figure out if the tread can stand the heat.

 

I have 2 more left over for other small components. 

 

Can you remove the gel tread?  Seems like it would be possible, particularly if you put a heat gun or hair dryer to it.

 

 

[austinpop]

56 minutes ago, Blake said:

 

Can you remove the gel tread?  Seems like it would be possible, particularly if you put a heat gun or hair dryer to it.

 

 

Not that I can see.

[Exocer]

On 5/27/2020 at 5:29 AM, trailblazers_song said:

Those of u who supply LPSU to your etherRegen, what’s the prefer voltage ?

12v with the LPS 1.2

[Avalfa]

5 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

These arrived today, and they work great in terms of weight. For now, I am using it upside down, even though the top is slightly rounded. Thankfully, its net thermal effect is positive, and despite the limited contact area from the rounded top, there is a net reduction in temperature of about 5º F.

 

 

I would have been happy with no thermal change as well. Aesthetically it would be nicer to rest it with the silica gel tread on the eR, but I need to figure out if the tread can stand the heat.

 

I have 2 more left over for other small components. 

I used those things for years on different equipment. That black (gel?) Rubber will bring a nasty odour in the room when warming up.

 

It can easily be removed by pulling it firmly, it's just glued on. 

Underneath is plain steel. If you don't want it to scratch the equipment after removal, some very thin self adhesive felt might do the trick.

 

Worked for me.

[ASRMichael]

On 5/27/2020 at 6:14 PM, austinpop said:

Thanks for the great ideas!

 

 

 

So no issues with the felt (on the coasters) or the rubber tread on the doorstop coming into contact with the hot exterior of the ER?

@audiopop with my recent build & new HDPLEX case (extra backplate), I now have a spare H5 case. 
 

My plan is for better isolation is to use the case for my modem, Edge Router, EtherRegen, Sonore OM. Removing all them from their cases. Effectively everything in one case. other added benefits, cleans up the spaghetti of devices & cables, shorter cables, sure many more. Just an idea. 

[Ken2020]

Anyone tried using the SGC 7V 50W to power the EtherRegen? How does it compare to other PS?

[Superdad]

2 hours ago, Ken2020 said:

Anyone tried using the SGC 7V 50W to power the EtherRegen? How does it compare to other PS?

SGC imports the Zerozone units. The 50W you refer to is a 7V version of this one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32881325799.html
Output impedance of those supplies is nothing to write home about.

[vortecjr]

2 hours ago, Superdad said:

SGC imports the Zerozone units. The 50W you refer to is a 7V version of this one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32881325799.html
Output impedance of those supplies is nothing to write home about.

Alex, that is not 100% correct. The SGC supplies were modified for Andrew at his request, there are multiple vendors, various transformer types, true linear power supply, various wattage, on/off switch, single box design with IEC power inlet, CE rating, higher current, in house testing with our gear, and an exclusive shipping / support system that you don't get from buying things direct from Chinese eBay. All of this at an affordable price and I most say people are really liking them compared to other power supplies. BTW these do not have the popular shunt trip trick you employ in your switching mode power supply. 

 

In fact, here are the NEW units we are starting to ship in 15W and 25W.

 

     

[simon_pepper]

3 hours ago, Superdad said:

SGC imports the Zerozone units. The 50W you refer to is a 7V version of this one:

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32881325799.html
Output impedance of those supplies is nothing to write home about.

Well I have a twin output 25W supply configured for 12v & 5v rails (https://www.ebay.ie/itm/111975719251) with the 12V for the EtherREGEN, without issue.
I had the supply pre-EtherREGEN using it for different Netgear & Cisco 5-port switches, so just swapped in the EtherREGEN and enjoyed the benefit with my Naim NDS, in a Roon system with SonoreUPnP bridge running on a UltraRendu with UltraCap LPS-1
 

Is the effect on the power supply on an EtherREGEN that critical?

[Superdad]

19 minutes ago, vortecjr said:

Alex, that is not 100% correct. The SGC supplies were modified for Andrew at his request, there are multiple vendors, various transformer types, true linear power supply, various wattage, on/off switch, single box design with IEC power inlet, CE rating, higher current, in house testing with our gear...

 

Okay. But a long-time mutual customer (who owns a SonicTransporter, ultraRendu, EtherREGEN, opticalRendu, opticalModule, and now JS-2) sent me the 7V/25W SGC LPS that he got from Andrews and had trouble getting to power his EtherREGEN or his opticalRendu (both requiring about 1.35A @7V). It says Zerozone right on the board.

Just as I have found with most of these Chinese supplies, it had great trouble keeping voltage up at anywhere near its current rating.

 

This 25W unit should be able to produce 3.57A at 7V. Here you can see it producing just 6.3V at 3.5A (despite its front indicator showing an aspirational 7.02V):

 

How about a much easier 1.35A--for EtherREGEN or opticalRendu? Just 6.72V:

 

I guess this is why SCG is now offering and recommending the ostensibly "50W" version for the opticalRendu. I mean, a 50W supply should be able to produce over 7A at 7V! Surely the opticalRendu does not need that. Contrast that with the very nice Sonore/Barrows/Belleson 7V/1.5A/10.5W supply. That has no trouble holding up an opticalRendu.  

My point being that those Chinese supplies have inflated ratings. (Zerozone is not too bad; the popular Studer 900 is the worst in this regard.)

 

One final point: Notice in the photos that the IEC inlet of the Small Green Computer/Zerozone 7V/25W supply does not have anything attached to its ground terminal.  That is a safety hazard and will not meet any safety certifications!

 

 

[Superdad]

21 minutes ago, simon_pepper said:

Is the effect on the power supply on an EtherREGEN that critical?

 

No it is not. Or at least not near as critical as it is for other types of devices such at the Rendus--which really respond wonderfully to power supplies with extremely low broadband output impedance.

 

(And the EtherREGEN draws just 0.8A at 12V, so not a problem for even your inflated-wattage-spec Chinese supply. Even if the voltage droops a bit (owing to perhaps what you have connected to the other rail), that would stay within the EtherREGEN's range, even if the current draw creeps up a bit as the voltage drops down.)

[vortecjr]

3 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Okay. But a long-time mutual customer (who owns a SonicTransporter, ultraRendu, EtherREGEN, opticalRendu, opticalModule, and now JS-2) sent me the 7V/25W SGC LPS that he got from Andrews and had trouble getting to power his EtherREGEN or his opticalRendu (both requiring about 1.35A @7V). It says Zerozone right on the board.

Just as I have found with most of these Chinese supplies, it had great trouble keeping voltage up at anywhere near its current rating.

 

This 25W unit should be able to produce 3.57A at 7V. Here you can see it producing just 6.3V at 3.5A (despite its front indicator showing an aspirational 7.02V):

 

How about a much easier 1.35A--for EtherREGEN or opticalRendu? Just 6.72V:

 

I guess this is why SCG is now offering and recommending the ostensibly "50W" version for the opticalRendu. I mean, a 50W supply should be able to produce over 7A at 7V! Surely the opticalRendu does not need that. Contrast that with the very nice Sonore/Barrows/Belleson 7V/1.5A/10.5W supply. That has no trouble holding up an opticalRendu.  

My point being that those Chinese supplies have inflated ratings. (Zerozone is not too bad; the popular Studer 900 is the worst in this regard.)

 

One final point: Notice in the photos that the IEC inlet of the Small Green Computer/Zerozone 7V/25W supply does not have anything attached to its ground terminal.  That is a safety hazard and will not meet any safety certifications!

 

 

So what...sometimes these things happen. Contact Andrew and he will make it right...it's called support. The 50 W power supply was brought into the picture because your PS could not handle an opticalRendu. At the time a 50 W power supply was what he could get in the quantities and time frame he needed. The 25 W power supply is now also available in the quantities and time frame he needs. I think you are overly generalizing things. I have plenty of customers that have failures with your power supply. How about the other known issue with your power supply not booting up a poor old microRendu while the Chinese power supply you critique has no issue. Floating grounds are nothing new in audio. However, Andrew will ground it for you at no extra cost should someone want it...again it's called support.         

[simon_pepper]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

No it is not. Or at least not near as critical as it is for other types of devices such at the Rendus--which really respond wonderfully to power supplies with extremely low broadband output impedance.

 

(And the EtherREGEN draws just 0.8A at 12V, so not a problem for even your inflated-wattage-spec Chinese supply. Even if the voltage droops a bit (owing to perhaps what you have connected to the other rail), that would stay within the EtherREGEN's range, even if the current draw creeps up a bit as the voltage drops down.)

Well the twin supply is two separate supplies in a single case, separate transformers and regulator circuits, plus there is only a Chromecast (for Roon display) & a LED turntable light on the side, so a few mA’s.

 

Other than the one supplied, does Uptone have a recommendation as enhanced supply for the EtherRegen?

[Superdad]

6 minutes ago, simon_pepper said:

Other than the one supplied, does Uptone have a recommendation as enhanced supply for the EtherRegen?

 

While an upgraded PS is not required to appreciate most all the benefits of the advanced EtherREGEN, some people do enjoy it a tad bit more with one.

At 12 volts the EtherREGEN draws just 0.8A, so it is open to a wide range of quality power supplies.

 

Some suggestions include:

• UpTone's own supercap & LT3045-based 1.1A UltraCap LPS-1.2 (user adjustable to 5/7/9/12V--set to 12V for EtherREGEN) at $435;
• Sonore's custom 1.5A/7V Belleson-based supply (built by Barrows Worm in Colorado) at $529;
• One of Teddy Pardo's TeddyReg-based 2A supplies at $369;
• Or perhaps a nice Paul Hynes Design SR4T at about $550.