The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments

[jamesg11]

2 hours ago, octaviars said:

If you where to power the etherREGEN and a component on the B-side then you would defeat the purpose of the isolation as JS-2 have a shared -0V for the two outputs.

Unless your js-2 powers lps1.2s that then power said ER + B-side item.

[Ready4Audio]

16 hours ago, octaviars said:

 

You will not violate the isolation when you power the etherREGEN and a modem on the A-side with a JS-2.

 

If you where to power the etherREGEN and a component on the B-side then you would defeat the purpose of the isolation as JS-2 have a shared -0V for the two outputs.

 

 

 

Ok thanks, that definitely opens up the possibilities.  Looks like my Netgear router is 12v 3.5A so only the JS-2 can deliver that, but I'd also be able to supply the REGEN at the same time.  Now to ponder whether I should order to experiment, or am I just chasing my tail?  Thanks again!

[Ready4Audio]

On 3/2/2020 at 2:13 PM, PYP said:

I’ve been comparing the eR powered by its SMPS and powered by the JS-2 LPS.   Now that the JS-2 is settled in (received it in early February ), the comparison is very evident in my system.  As others have reported, with the JS-2 increases the improvements already brought by the eR with its SMPS.  

 

In my system, the SMPS sounded great in the evening, but wasn’t consistent the rest of the time.  To me, that meant the problem was power-related (perhaps the issue was taming the junk coming into the house via the power lines).  When the eR wasn’t at its best, the highs were not as good as without the eR.  Since it was easy to hear the eR’s potential in the evening, and I wasn’t willing to lose those improvements, I looked at UpTone's other gear for a solution.

 

For me, the JS-2 -- which is a solid, beautiful piece of gear – solved the issues.  But it did more than solve the issues:  the SQ is now better than the eR at its best (in the evening) with the SMPS.  While the improvements are across the board, the improvement to female singers has really caught my attention lately (perhaps because my speakers, to my taste, excel with voices).  Today I was listening to one of my favorite albums by Eliane Elias and the most nuanced changes in her voice were evident.  For the first time, I could hear when she changed her inflection to follow the music as it got funkier.  And at one point, I could “hear” her smile (perhaps at the lyric?) and I was transported to the studio.  We all have had that experience because we have all spent countless hours (years/decades) researching, obsessing (don’t forget the obsessing), listening, buying gear, selling gear, buying more gear and tweaking our system.  That moment of transcendence makes it all worth it.  

 

Beyond the great, cost-effective solutions that UpTone offers, I’d be remiss if I didn’t thank Alex for his first-class customer service.  Truly exceptional.  

 

Lastly, thank you @skatbelt for reporting that the JS-2 improved SQ and that it could be a worthwhile investment.  The JS-2, of course, has two rails, so I’ll experiment with an opticalModule when I receive it from Sonore.  

 

Thanks for the insights on the JS-2 improvements.  Since I am using a PS Audio power regenerator with the stock REGEN supply, I'm wondering if the already clean regenerated power would make the addition of a JS-2 much less impactful.  Thoughts anyone on the difference, if any, between better regulated power and clean power?  Thanks!

[PYP]

20 hours ago, Ready4Audio said:

 

Thanks for the insights on the JS-2 improvements.  Since I am using a PS Audio power regenerator with the stock REGEN supply, I'm wondering if the already clean regenerated power would make the addition of a JS-2 much less impactful.  Thoughts anyone on the difference, if any, between better regulated power and clean power?  Thanks!

 

Perhaps you have already seen Rajiv's must-read review of the eR.  From his system, you can see that he uses a PSA regenerator, yet he finds differences, which he explains in some detail, among LPS units.   He doesn't mention the JS-2 specifically, but the principle is the same.  While I personally don't believe that anyone can reliably anticipate the changes to other systems -- too many variables to consider, including listener hearing/preference, room, power, etc.  -- many folks have found that a quality LPS will enhance your eR experience.  I suppose the question that cannot be answered is how much of a difference it will make.   

[Ready4Audio]

37 minutes ago, PYP said:

 

Perhaps you have already seen Rajiv's must-read review of the eR.  From his system, you can see that he uses a PSA regenerator, yet he finds differences, which he explains in some detail, among LPS units.   He doesn't mention the JS-2 specifically, but the principle is the same.  While I personally don't believe that anyone can reliably anticipate the changes to other systems -- too many variables to consider, including listener hearing/preference, room, power, etc.  -- many folks have found that a quality LPS will enhance your eR experience.  I suppose the question that cannot be answered is how much of a difference it will make.   

Thanks, I did not realize Rajiv had used a PSA regenerator -- loved his review.  Guess I will have to try for myself.  Thanks again!

[Superdad]

So the usually open-minded Paul McGowan (of course of PS Audio, a company I have known and respected for decades) just posted a video on YouTube (https://youtu.be/e8LSLB62R64) and in his Ask Paul VLOG (https://www.psaudio.com/askpaul/will-an-ethernet-switch-matter/), assuring viewers that Ethernet switches don't matter in the least to SQ.

 

This despite the fact that the are at least 40 DirectStream DAC owners enjoying the EtherREGEN, with many reporting that with it they now prefer their DAC's Bridge II Ethernet input over even its USB or even I2S inputs.

 

It is funny too since Paul, Bascom King, and the late Arnie Nudell all owed and enjoyed our USB REGEN at one time, and Ted Smith has written about the validity of some of @JohnSwenson's postulations regarding how PHY receiver chips are affected by ground-plane perturbations. Ted and John really hit it off at RMAF 2015--the same show where Paul had me insert a USB REGEN while a room full of people listened, and then immediately offered to buy the unit 'cause it was staying for the rest of the show.

And lots of PS Audio LANRover users reported about the benefits of powering the receive end of that USB>Ethernet>USB extender with an UltraCap power supply.

 

Now Paul does not specifically reference the EtherREGEN in his video, his only product reference is to the SOtM switch. And he likely has read neither the reviews of the EtherREGEN or our 'white paper.'  I was tempted to just let it go, but then I was browsing his other recent videos and came across this one (https://www.psaudio.com/askpaul/can-we-hear-what-is-not-measurable/) where he too puts forth that there are many variables which humans are able to hear but for which the correct correlation test or test gear does not yet exist.

 

If I was not so swamped with work (15 more JS-2s and 40 more EtherREGENs to build and ship out by April 15th!) I would take the time to compose a polite reply and an offer to send him a unit to audition for himself.  Maybe sometime later.  But perhaps a few of you EtherREGEN (and maybe DS DAC-owning) users might wish to offer a counter perspective in the comments section of either the YouTube or AskPaul video postings.

 

[austinpop]

On 4/1/2020 at 4:35 PM, Ready4Audio said:

 

Thanks for the insights on the JS-2 improvements.  Since I am using a PS Audio power regenerator with the stock REGEN supply, I'm wondering if the already clean regenerated power would make the addition of a JS-2 much less impactful.  Thoughts anyone on the difference, if any, between better regulated power and clean power?  Thanks!

 

My experience with power enhancements is that they are all additive. I found that the following 2 were a "tide that lifted all boats:" 

1. adding dedicated circuit(s)
2. adding a power regenerator

Both of these made a difference system-wide. And ... if anything, they enabled downstream DC PSUs to shine even more. Everything matters.

[so-no-mah]

Hi Alex, as you know I am one of the 40 or so of us PS Audio Directstream DAC (DSD) owners with a Bridge II and an EtherREGEN. My streamer is a Roon Nuceus+. Regardless of how I connected things, the ER made a significant and positive difference in the sound of my system as I have reported elsewhere. (And I'm not at all surprised that John and Ted Smith got along like a house on fire. BTW, I can recommend the AudioStream podcast with Ted to be quite fascinating, at least to audio nerds like me.)

 

Initially I connected both my router and the Nucleus+ to the A side of the ER with the B side going to the Bridge II (Ethernet cables were all AQ Cinnamon). At the same time, I had the Nucleus+connected via the USB input by way of a Curious Link, an LPS 1.2 powered IsoREGEN and a Synergistic Atmosphere Reference USB. The Bridge II allowed me to do the final unfold of MQA streams which was desirable to me as a Tidal user. With MQA files the Bridge II was my preferred input (though not by much), but when it came to CD files ripped to an internal SSD in the Nucleus+, it was a very close call for me.

 

As you may know, many PS DSD owners have gotten good results using the Matrix Audio X-SPDIF 2 box which converts USB to I2S via HDMI among other things, and some DSD users believe I2S is the unit's best sounding input. This is what I found as well, to the point that I will be physically removing the Bridge II from the DSD.

 

Accordingly, I now have my router connected to the A side of the ER with the B side connected directly to my Nucleus+. From there it is Curious USB to IsoREGEN to Synergestic Reference to the X-SPDIF 2 then AQ Mocha HDMI to the DSD's I2S input. I personally found that this is the best way to go, even though I'm losing the 2nd MQA unfold from the Bridge II. 

 

To head off some questions, my Nucleus+ and the Matrix are powered by a JS-2 and my ER is powered by an HDPlex via a Ghent JSSG 360. The ER and most of the rest of the system are connected to a Synergistic Research Active Ground Block.

 

My takeaway is that switches do matter. A lot. If you don't have an EtherREGEN, try one. And when you do get one, experiment with your setup to determine what configuration you enjoy most.

 

Best to you and yours along with the AS community. 

 

Stay safe,

 

Andy

[FrankMA]

On 4/2/2020 at 2:47 PM, Superdad said:

But perhaps a few of you EtherREGEN (and maybe DS DAC-owning) users might wish to offer a counter perspective in the comments section of either the YouTube or AskPaul video postings.

 

 

Done

[skatbelt]

 

On 4/1/2020 at 11:35 PM, Ready4Audio said:

 

Thanks for the insights on the JS-2 improvements.  Since I am using a PS Audio power regenerator with the stock REGEN supply, I'm wondering if the already clean regenerated power would make the addition of a JS-2 much less impactful.  Thoughts anyone on the difference, if any, between better regulated power and clean power?  Thanks!

 

I have a dedicated power line and an isolation transformer as power 'clean up' measures. Despite this, the JS-2 makes a significant difference compared to the stock SMPS.

[Ready4Audio]

On 4/2/2020 at 7:49 PM, austinpop said:

 

My experience with power enhancements is that they are all additive. I found that the following 2 were a "tide that lifted all boats:" 

1. adding dedicated circuit(s)
2. adding a power regenerator

Both of these made a difference system-wide. And ... if anything, they enabled downstream DC PSUs to shine even more. Everything matters.

 

Thanks Rajiv, this is a good principle for me to follow.  Thanks so much for all your hard work and comprehensive and entertaining reviews/experiments.  Greatly appreciated!!!

[Ready4Audio]

4 hours ago, skatbelt said:

 

 

I have a dedicated power line and an isolation transformer as power 'clean up' measures. Despite this, the JS-2 makes a significant difference compared to the stock SMPS.

Thanks for that insight.  JS-2 may need an audition by me in lock-down, will have to see.  I'm enjoying the EtherREGEN more every day even with the stock supply!

[drjimwillie]

Good day fine individuals,

over on the “what’s best “- “extreme “ thread, One gentleman was working with Romaz to improve his networking. The suggestion was to install a separate dedicated network for the audio system, upstream of his EtherRegen. The product used was a ubiquity edge router.  I asked the gentleman if he had to change all of the references to his IP addresses in his system, I did not get a clear answer, but it appeared that he did not.  He said that he installed the router after his Verizon FiOS router, that he has all his other devices plugged into.  Others suggested that this implied that he was just using his router as a switch.

I watched a video on the set up of the ubiquity edge router and it is not like your typical consumer plug and play router. It needs to be logged into and set up to operate.

Possibly, this is how the new network was established. Also, maybe all of his attached devices are DHCP so they just accepted the new IP from the router?

I know in my set up that I would have to re-define in some of my software, IP addresses, so that Roon could find my NAS and my server could find my Roon server, etc.

I do not have it set up this way, but what would happen if someone was using static IP‘s?

If Romaz is setting up a separate dedicated router he probably also has a separate feed into his house?

I also have a Verizon FiOS service which comes into an ONT, And runs coax cable to my Verizon router.

Can I just do what the gentleman did and install a router after my Verizon router?

I cannot split the coax, because the ubiquity router takes ethernet in. And, I do not know if it would work to split the coax or what that would do to the signal because I have never seen a good quality splitter.

The coax is connected at the ONT to a terminal that says video MoCA output.

There is a separate ethernet terminal labeled ethernet hub jack.  I will call Verizon to find out if this can be used and report back.

I look forward to your advice and suggestions.

thank you

enjoy the music, please

 

[drjimwillie]

I spoke to Verizon about the FiOS ONT. they told me that only the coax is currently enabled and in typical tech-support/sales mode, they told me that my current Internet speed is 75/75 but if I want to upgrade to 150/150 they would enable both the ethernet and the coax.

They told me that at 150/150, with the FiOS TV going over the same coax, that the coax would be a bottleneck, but it is not a bottleneck for the current set up.  Hmmmm
I asked if I could have the ethernet enabled and have coax both running to my Verizon router and they told me as soon as I had the ethernet port enabled any data would go over Ethernet and not over the coax.  
There was no way to enable that ethernet port to give me a separate IP. As many iterations as I came up with, there was no way to Separate the data requirements For the house from the audio system by bypassing the router or going through the router to another router.

 

I have another question, which is a better way to send data - over an ethernet cable or over coax. At least the coax has shielding. Currently if I made up a long enough cable to go from the ONT to the router it would not be shielded.

 

To make things more interesting, I started tracing out the coax and found that it immediately went to a splitter. One leg goes to the router the other leg goes to the set-top box.

I wonder if having this coax connected to two different circuits gives me the potential for a ground loop?

After having a long conversation with the Verizon tech, I found out that I can have him enable that ethernet port without upgrading my service. He could not do it immediately because that would shut off the ethernet to the remainder of the house.  I have to make up the ethernet cable and then I will have him change it over. I am assuming that means that I can disconnect the coax that goes to the router. And remove the splitter so that the coax goes directly to the set-top box.

I guess the improvement I was seeing with the EtherRegen for the TV was only for content through my Apple TV, because FiOS TV comes over coax.

If the reason we got into this whole discussion is about having a separate IP to remove all data traffic from the audio system, I wonder if there is a detriment to having the TV plugged in to the A side of the EtherRegen?

It may not matter much because when I am typically doing my critical listening the TV is off.

I hope you find some of this useful.

I look forward to your opinions on any of these things that I have found and questions I have. 
 

please enjoy the music

[uwe062]

Hello Superdad,

I am a very satisfied user of the EtherRegen. Now I want to experiment with an isolating transformer. I am using the EtherRegen with a Paul Hynes SR4 PSU and would like to share it with my DAC (Audiolab MDAC) on this isolation transformer: https://soundnews.net/accessories/plixir-elite-bac-400-power-conditioner-review/
What do you think about that?
Best regards, Uwe

[ikemi]

Hey guys,

 

Have a few question regarding grounding the chassis of the etherregen. I have wired a plug with a grounding wire only connected with the other end of wire attached to the ground screw of etherregen and then plug this into a power receptacle. Should the receptacle used for grounding be the same one that the etherregen external power supply is plugged into? Also want to chassis ground two other pieces of gear. Can I ground those to the same receptacle/circuit where I grounded etherregen? Thanks!

 

Ron

[HumanMedia]

Upgraded power supply for the ER from an old Welborne (which sounded good, almost as good as the JS-2 for this particular application) to a 7v Farad3.
Noticeably better than the Welborne.

Losing the desire to test any other combinations, but at some stage might swap the Farad out with the JS-2 to directly compare. From memory alone I would characterise the difference being that the JS-2 is a bit more natural and organic and the Farad as a bit cleaner and punchier.

 

I am still amazed that power supplies (And DC cables) this far up the chain are so noticeable, but they are in my system. 

Another note about those SMPS wall warts, yes I know many measure well, especially the ground shunted ones, but despite the measurements, removing any/all from the audio system always makes it sound better. 

[PYP]

29 minutes ago, HumanMedia said:

From memory alone I would characterise the difference being that the JS-2 is a bit more natural and organic and the Farad as a bit cleaner and punchier.

 

Those are the qualities that I like about the JS-2 and what I look/listen for in general.  My theory is that low distortion/noise = natural and organic, and that the excellent measurements of my DAC and amps make it difficult to find upstream components that don't make the sound quality worse.  That is why I'm so impressed with the JS-2, eR and oM.  The SQ has been elevated and the natural and organic qualities remain.  It did take quite a while for everything to settle in, but was worth the wait.  

[Ponkbutler]

The Sean Jacobs /Custom HiFi Cables custom power supply for my daisychained EtherRegens arrived yesterday and straight out of the box it has been a very big step up, with a much more organic out-of-the-speakers sound, greater bass extension and articulacy, clearer and sweeter trebles, a broader, deeper soundstage with more precise instrument placement and greater instrumental detail and integrity.  
 

I really wasn’t expecting such a big difference and am very excited in the knowledge it will just keep getting better for around a month. It’s incredible to think a power supply upgrade can make such big difference vs. the high quality SMPS bundled with the EtherRegen. It pretty much doubles the upgrade compared to the Cisco Catalyst PD models I was using beforehand and really shows the potential in Uptone’s desgn.

[jean-michel6]

On 4/16/2020 at 11:18 PM, Ponkbutler said:

The Sean Jacobs /Custom HiFi Cables custom power supply for my daisychained EtherRegens arrived yesterday and straight out of the box it has been a very big step up, with a much more organic out-of-the-speakers sound, greater bass extension and articulacy, clearer and sweeter trebles, a broader, deeper soundstage with more precise instrument placement and greater instrumental detail and integrity.  
 

I really wasn’t expecting such a big difference and am very excited in the knowledge it will just keep getting better for around a month. It’s incredible to think a power supply upgrade can make such big difference vs. the high quality SMPS bundled with the EtherRegen. It pretty much doubles the upgrade compared to the Cisco Catalyst PD models I was using beforehand and really shows the potential in Uptone’s desgn.

Which custom sean Jacobs did you get . A DC3 or DC4  ?

 

[Lucie]

Thats good news Ponkbutler. Congrats!

Apart from the previous question, I’m curious to know: are you powering both ERs from the same LPS? From earlier comments I would expect that defeats the moat. But my technical knowledge is limited.
Can anybody comment on that? Thx in advance.

[Ponkbutler]

Hi there! I’m answering both questions in the same post.

 

It’s a custom supply because I don’t physically have space for a DC4. So it’s a DC3 box with an Innuos Statement transformer, three legs, two of which power the EtherRegens, Mundorf capacitors and some of the regulator technology of the DC4. In addition, one of the outlets has an earthing switch. I am using this on the first of the EtherRegens, which has several A-side connections, whereas the second EtherRegen, which has only 1 A-side connection, is not earthed. John and Alex have both clarified that the earthing only helps when you have multiple A- side connections.

[HumanMedia]

Hang on, if a single supply is powering both ERs, then the separation between them is lost, so much of the benefit of the upstream ER is gone. What is the other rail powering? (It shouldn’t be anything downstream of any ER)

[Ponkbutler]

8 hours ago, HumanMedia said:

Hang on, if a single supply is powering both ERs, then the separation between them is lost, so much of the benefit of the upstream ER is gone. What is the other rail powering? (It shouldn’t be anything downstream of any ER)

The rails on this supply are dedicated (separate regulation and everything) and completely isolated from each other. The third rail is not currently powering anything. 

[hpfish]

I currently connect a cheap 1m ethernet cable from ER to my streamer, the SQ is good but can be better,  do you have any recommendations for a better Ethernet cable?