Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues thread

[davide256]

On 9/4/2021 at 4:45 PM, davide256 said:

The Atom endpoint is working surprisingly well for me, well enough so that I've purchased a Stylus endpoint license.

 

information on the endpoint

https://up-shop.org/up-gateway-atom-x5-z8350-w-4g-memory-32g-emmc-board-w-vesa-plate.html

 

My thanks to @Miska for recommending this as NAA and pointing me to the last one Mouser had in stock.

 

My best setup so far is

Windows Roon i5 server using HQPlayer protocol to Stylus endpoint (NOS) or HQPlayer embedded (OS).

Have been able to use 768/24 with either of these endpoint choices.  Some CPU over-utilization so that

the more discriminating might want the more powerful device below when available

 

Stylus Server to Stylus Endpoint works fine up to 705/24 but changing to 768/24 causes constant CPU over-utilization and play stops

at between 14-17 seconds. Hard to know why, will fire off a question to Euphony support.

 

With only 4gb of RAM, running in RAM not recommended, even as endpoint.

 

Key factor here seems to be that the endpoint device is 5v DC powered + fanless so that USB out is clean. While it ran using an LPS 1.2 @ 1.2A

there were high frequency artifacts which disappeared using a JS-2 @ 5A;  it's stated max power need is 5v @ 4A.

 

Have used other endpoint devices in past, microRendu, Pentium NUC:  this is better. MR was clean but rounded details, Pentium was sharp

but USB out wasn't that clean even with LPS, this combines the best of both.

 

this was also recommended by Miska for a like more powerful device... but at 2x the price plus out of stock

https://up-shop.org/up-squared-edge-8gb-ram.html

Have observed this further at 768/24. Memory is incrementally eaten up during play until it reaches 56% then song aborts. Looks like Stylus endpoint w/ Stylus server doesn’t clear its buffer until a song ends whereas with Roon using HQP to Stylus endpoint or Roon to NAA on endpoint memory usage is stable at 30%. Going to try some longer 705/24 tracks to see if they max out memory available

[k27R]

19 hours ago, Lukasluis said:

Has anyone compared their Euphony rigs with the Bluesound node 2i or the ifi Zen Stream? I'm thinking of simplifying my digital system. 

depends on how resolving your system is and how much the drop in sound quality matters to you. I had a node 2i in my system for about a month. It wasn’t awful when used with an external Dac, but there was a noticeable drop in resolution compared to my Euphony rig, which has a very natural sound. The node 2i  sounded more “digital” overall in my main system, and it wasn’t enjoyable for me. It was perfectly fine in my less resolving second system, however.

[Lukasluis]

42 minutes ago, k27R said:

depends on how resolving your system is and how much the drop in sound quality matters to you. I had a node 2i in my system for about a month. It wasn’t awful when used with an external Dac, but there was a noticeable drop in resolution compared to my Euphony rig, which has a very natural sound. The node 2i  sounded more “digital” overall in my main system, and it wasn’t enjoyable for me. It was perfectly fine in my less resolving second system, however.

Drop in resolution and sounds more digital? Isn't it more digital means more resolute? 

[davide256]

5 hours ago, davide256 said:

Have observed this further at 768/24. Memory is incrementally eaten up during play until it reaches 56% then song aborts. Looks like Stylus endpoint w/ Stylus server doesn’t clear its buffer until a song ends whereas with Roon using HQP to Stylus endpoint or Roon to NAA on endpoint memory usage is stable at 30%. Going to try some longer 705/24 tracks to see if they max out memory available

Heard back from zelijko,  Stylus buffers the whole song and at 768/24 the 4gb Atom unit doesn't have enough free RAM to not run out of memory.

[davide256]

4 hours ago, Lukasluis said:

Drop in resolution and sounds more digital? Isn't it more digital means more resolute? 

Digital = sound of 1990's CD player

[k27R]

I’m using the terms “resolution” and “digital” to describe my subjective listening impressions, not the actual file or format attributes 

[Lukasluis]

1 hour ago, k27R said:

I’m using the terms “resolution” and “digital” to describe my subjective listening impressions, not the actual file or format attributes 

Thanks for the clarification. I always thought that Digital has more resolution than analog. That's why I find the less resolute and more digital to be a conflicting. 

[di-fi]

On 9/18/2021 at 9:56 PM, Lukasluis said:

Has anyone compared their Euphony rigs with the Bluesound node 2i or the ifi Zen Stream? I'm thinking of simplifying my digital system. 

Currently trying a Nad C658 w. BluOS (balanced XLR out) and a Bluesound node 2i (se out) in different configurations vs. Euphony. Although I am in the middle of changing many devices in little time, for now I can confirm in my set-up BluOS can not beat Euphony soundwise. But I will keep trying.

 

You do not mention if you are trying or not to improve sound or interface (simplify?) but as far as the interface and customizing access of music files Euphony is easy to beat. BluOS and JRiver are clear winners here.  I hope to find a better and more user friendly interface than Euphony but without giving up Euphony sound quality (any recommendations anyone?)

 

My findings today;

- soundwise Euphony (and also JRiver) will beat BluOS (in my set-up).

- interface wise with BluOS and Euphony you are stuck with what the designer created, but BluOS is more easy to use and more intuitive.

[Anwar]

15 minutes ago, di-fi said:

Currently trying a Nad C658 w. BluOS (balanced XLR out) and a Bluesound node 2i (se out) in different configurations vs. Euphony. Although I am in the middle of changing many devices in little time, for now I can confirm in my set-up BluOS can not beat Euphony soundwise. But I will keep trying.

As far as the interface and cataloging and acces of music files Euphony is easy to beat so I will continue trying to find a better and more user friendly interface without giving up Euphony sound quality. By the way JRiver will also beat BluOS (in my set-up). 

 

It's not that difficult to beat Euphony SQ if you are willing to use Windows 10 (dedicated PC for audio only).  I have 2 Euphony licenses.  After trying manually-tweaked Windows 10 (including the LTSC version) with JPLAY FEMTO, it is really hard to go back to Euphony.  Euphony is very stable, reasonably good GUI, with easy systems updates, but SQ is not on par with JPLAY FEMTO + Win 10.  However, JPLAY has its own problems too with stability.

[di-fi]

17 minutes ago, Anwar said:

 

It's not that difficult to beat Euphony SQ if you are willing to use Windows 10 (dedicated PC for audio only).  I have 2 Euphony licenses.  After trying manually-tweaked Windows 10 (including the LTSC version) with JPLAY FEMTO, it is really hard to go back to Euphony.  Euphony is very stable, reasonably good GUI, with easy systems updates, but SQ is not on par with JPLAY FEMTO + Win 10.  However, JPLAY has its own problems too with stability.

But I assume that this dedicated win10 computer needs processing power, LPS  and more? Probably not just a basic PC (NUC)  like my Atom Intel® Celeron™ J1900 low power (2 LPS) 2x4Gb Apacer that currently runs Euphony without effort.  

 

I will read https://dranwarali.com. Thanks Anwar!

[Anwar]

38 minutes ago, di-fi said:

But I assume that this dedicated win10 computer needs processing power, LPS  and more? Probably not just a basic PC (NUC)  like my Atom Intel® Celeron™ J1900 low power (2 LPS) 2x4Gb Apacer that currently runs Euphony without effort.  

 

 

I know 1 person who tried Win 10 + JPLAY using his gaming NUC.  He cannot hear the difference between Win 10 vs Win 10 LTSC, but he can hear JPLAY SQ.  8GB is sufficient for Win 10.  On my Pentium Silver 2.0GHz SoC, the CPU utilization is 4% when JPLAY is playing music.  As long as no other tasks/apps running, Celeron J1900 is fine since it has 4 cores.

[Lukasluis]

3 hours ago, Anwar said:

 

It's not that difficult to beat Euphony SQ if you are willing to use Windows 10 (dedicated PC for audio only).  I have 2 Euphony licenses.  After trying manually-tweaked Windows 10 (including the LTSC version) with JPLAY FEMTO, it is really hard to go back to Euphony.  Euphony is very stable, reasonably good GUI, with easy systems updates, but SQ is not on par with JPLAY FEMTO + Win 10.  However, JPLAY has its own problems too with stability.

Been using Windows on my Main system for more than a year now. Euphony is demoted to my 2nd system and I'm thinking if I move on with an iFi Zen Stream, thus I asked the question here if any experience with those. 

[Lukasluis]

1 minute ago, Lukasluis said:

Been using Windows on my Main system for more than a year now. Euphony is demoted to my 2nd system and I'm thinking if I move on with an iFi Zen Stream, thus I asked the question here if any experience with those. 

I use dual PC setup with 2 Intel NUC boards on fanless cases powered by a LPS. Unlike Euphony, Jplay doesn't need much computing power to sound great. I use Intel i3 and Intel i5 boards. 

[Smaragdhk]

28 minutes ago, Lukasluis said:

I use dual PC setup with 2 Intel NUC boards on fanless cases powered by a LPS. Unlike Euphony, Jplay doesn't need much computing power to sound great. I use Intel i3 and Intel i5 boards. 

For what it is worth, I'm running Euphony on a single NUC10i7 in a fanless case with processor speed limited at 800Mhz (standard default in Euphony is 4.7 GHz) and it sounds amazing. Using a 19V LPS for the NUC, a 5V LPS for the M.2 Femto drive and 12V LPS for the NAS and Audiophile grade Switch.  

No upsampling in HQ Player, just using Stylus to control playback while streaming files from a NAS.

Unless you 're doing heavy upsampling (which I'm not), my CPU usage is around 4% ...

[di-fi]

11 hours ago, Anwar said:

 

I know 1 person who tried Win 10 + JPLAY using his gaming NUC.  He cannot hear the difference between Win 10 vs Win 10 LTSC, but he can hear JPLAY SQ.  8GB is sufficient for Win 10.  On my Pentium Silver 2.0GHz SoC, the CPU utilization is 4% when JPLAY is playing music.  As long as no other tasks/apps running, Celeron J1900 is fine since it has 4 cores.

You made me curious and I will trust your judgement because ''It sounds more dynamics and lively, with tighter bass'' is also what happended when I added LPS 1.2 and later a Farad Super3 to my NUC. The same improvement when I installed a separate USB card on the PCI slot. And also when I replaced both DC cables between the powersupplies and NUC, tighter bass definitely and more dynamics. So I am aware my milage may vary. As allways hard to say how big the change will be and where sound quality will be improved. (And even more difficult, HOW to write about different aspects of sound quality to compare apples to apples - or Euphony to win 10 + Jplay Femto)

 

A second point to consider; I am looking for sound quality improvement AND a user friendly interface. I am running everything from an iPad pro.

 

I have a second and slower fanless NUC (4gb) with Win 10. I might give that one a try first for the JPlay FEMTO  trial install. To the (also fanless) Celeron 9100 that is currently running Euphony from SLC USB stick (and ramroot) I will have to add a SSD with ideally a decent LPS (that was my setup before running from USB stick).

 

Look forward to try, it's on my list for the next month(s). Thanks for sharing. 

 

Did I understand you connected separate LPS for (1) SSD, (2)Motherboard, (3)Optical drive and (4)USB?

[di-fi]

8 hours ago, Lukasluis said:

I use dual PC setup with 2 Intel NUC boards on fanless cases powered by a LPS. Unlike Euphony, Jplay doesn't need much computing power to sound great. I use Intel i3 and Intel i5 boards. 

 My fanless Celeron 9100 that is currently running Euphony (v. 20201102) from SLC USB stick does not get hot at all. Playing large flac and wav files music from NAS all morning (see image). If you confirm with Jplay it's even less, that's only good news and I could even install Jplay on a slower NUC.

 

 

 

 

[Lukasluis]

On 9/21/2021 at 10:46 PM, di-fi said:

 My fanless Celeron 9100 that is currently running Euphony (v. 20201102) from SLC USB stick does not get hot at all. Playing large flac and wav files music from NAS all morning (see image). If you confirm with Jplay it's even less, that's only good news and I could even install Jplay on a slower NUC.

 

 

 

 

The CPU usage is less than 1% on my Intel NUC i3, hypertheading off.  Using Windows server 2019 Core OS loaded to RAM. Only 28 processes are running. When running off USB thumb drive, it is hovering between 1-2% cpu usage. 

[genvirt]

Hi! 
Does someone heard or verified when the new version (not an update) of Euphony will be out?

Thanks

[di-fi]

On 9/23/2021 at 6:32 AM, Lukasluis said:

The CPU usage is less than 1% on my Intel NUC i3, hypertheading off.  Using Windows server 2019 Core OS loaded to RAM. Only 28 processes are running. When running off USB thumb drive, it is hovering between 1-2% cpu usage. 

The 9% is extreme, it’s more like 4-5% average on 1 core and between 0 and 3 % on a second. Core 3 and 4 stay mostly at 0%.

When running Euphony in ramroot I can take out the USB stick, but I never do, it never flashes, i do not think it is used. The USB stick eliminates OS SSD with LPS.  Sound is equal or maybe a tiny improvement. 
Installing win 10 (as mentioned by Anwar above)on a slower nuc will not advantage sound quality I am sure. 

[Lukasluis]

25 minutes ago, di-fi said:

The 9% is extreme, it’s more like 4-5% average on 1 core and between 0 and 3 % on a second. Core 3 and 4 stay mostly at 0%.

When running Euphony in ramroot I can take out the USB stick, but I never do, it never flashes, i do not think it is used. The USB stick eliminates OS SSD with LPS.  Sound is equal or maybe a tiny improvement. 
Installing win 10 (as mentioned by Anwar above)on a slower nuc will not advantage sound quality I am sure. 

Dual PC Windows running in RAM sounds more highend in my experience. There's more air around instruments and voices. Front to back layering is much delineated; stage width and height is also bigger. In short, it's more 3D and PRAT is my goodness! Euphony is good for passive listening on my 2nd system. 

[davide256]

2 hours ago, Lukasluis said:

Dual PC Windows running in RAM sounds more highend in my experience. There's more air around instruments and voices. Front to back layering is much delineated; stage width and height is also bigger. In short, it's more 3D and PRAT is my goodness! Euphony is good for passive listening on my 2nd system. 

Its been a while since I used Jplay. It was great for transients and detail but sucked all the tone color out of the midrange, good for rock and roll but not what you wanted

for acoustical instruments like cello, oboe and french horn. I'll give it a trial again to see if anything has changed. What floats my boat is tone color purity

[Joerg D]

Hello,

I heard with Win10 and JRiver until a year ago. I never regretted switching to Euphony. The sound with Euphony is better and the system is very stable. I don't want to go back to Windows. Stylus makes a wonderful, musical sound.

 

Jörg

 

[di-fi]

4 hours ago, Lukasluis said:

Dual PC Windows running in RAM sounds more highend in my experience. There's more air around instruments and voices. Front to back layering is much delineated; stage width and height is also bigger. In short, it's more 3D and PRAT is my goodness! Euphony is good for passive listening on my 2nd system. 

Thanks, nice description of where exactly sound improvements can be expected. Very helpful.

[ngocpham]

On 8/20/2021 at 4:25 PM, flkin said:

My best of both worlds is to use both simultaneously :

 

- Stylus for playback

- Roon for music discovery and finding albums/tracks.

 

I set up Roon on a on a different server. When I find streamed files I want to play in Roon, I just add to the Roon database and it appears inside Stylus automatically at the top of the list. If I don't want to keep it, I simply delete from either Roon or Stylus and it disappears in both apps.

 

On an iPad, you can run Roon in full screen mode and Stylus as a slide in app, so they are both visible at the same time.

Could you please show me how to set up like this? Thanks so much!

I have Roon on my Synology NAS and Euphony Stylus on another computer

[flkin]

8 hours ago, ngocpham said:

Could you please show me how to set up like this? Thanks so much!

I have Roon on my Synology NAS and Euphony Stylus on another computer

Say you use an iPad to control your music, are you able to run both Roon and Euphony on it? If so you’re already there. Only Euphony needs to be playing in your main system while Roon’s Storage just needs to point to Euphony’s database or wherever you keep your local files. So Roon sees everything Euphony sees. 

 

And when you need to find streaming music, just switch to Roon. After finding the album add it to favorites. Switch to Euphony and the favorite will show as the last added album.