Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues thread

[davide256]

5 hours ago, al2813 said:

I am very close to giving up on Roon as I am more and more back to physical media. I still intend to keep digital as a source since will never get all the music I listen to in physical media. 

 

The Euphony stylus interface on my iPad is to my taste not user-friendly at all - maybe too used to Roon :-( 

So - for those who compared, what gives you the better quality - Euphony or Windows + add ons? And if then what is a recommended setup?  I need a relatively easy to maintain setup, and it needs to be headless. 

 

 

 

Roon is hands down the best interface. But compared to Stylus server it does lose details and transparency. Windows isn't even in the running for me as an OS, always degrades

in a dual boot comparison of Roon or HQP vs running under Euphony's Linux environment.

 

If you are using an R2R DAC at native rates, life can be very good using Roon core server to a low power Stylus endpoint. But when I switch to 768/705 up-sampled files the

difference using Stylus server becomes more glaring even with a simple Chord Mojo.

 

I find that I get about 80% of what Stylus does if I use Roon core under Euphony with HQP control protocol to separate Stylus endpoint. Not impressed

with Roon rock, thought Roon under Windows sounded better

[al2813]

22 minutes ago, davide256 said:

Roon is hands down the best interface. But compared to Stylus server it does lose details and transparency. Windows isn't even in the running for me as an OS, always degrades

in a dual boot comparison of Roon or HQP vs running under Euphony's Linux environment.

 

If you are using an R2R DAC at native rates, life can be very good using Roon core server to a low power Stylus endpoint. But when I switch to 768/705 up-sampled files the

difference using Stylus server becomes more glaring even with a simple Chord Mojo.

 

I find that I get about 80% of what Stylus does if I use Roon core under Euphony to separate Stylus endpoint. Not impressed with Roon rock, thought Roon under

Windows sounded better

 

So I have currently:

 

A low power machine running Euphony and Stylus and powered by an HDPLEX 300W (it's a Jetway N2930 mobo and I feed directly to DC in 19V). I have a JCAT FEMTO USB for USB out (powered separatelyby the HDplex 5V). My DAC is indeed a NOS DAC (MHDT Orchid). You suggest I move to a two machine architecture? 

[davide256]

27 minutes ago, al2813 said:

 

So I have currently:

 

A low power machine running Euphony and Stylus and powered by an HDPLEX 300W (it's a Jetway N2930 mobo and I feed directly to DC in 19V). I have a JCAT FEMTO USB for USB out (powered separatelyby the HDplex 5V). My DAC is indeed a NOS DAC (MHDT Orchid). You suggest I move to a two machine architecture? 

 

Its hard to say if the JCAT card in server provides the same benefit as using a separate endpoint. But devices like the Fitlet 2 or the Up Squared Edge

with ATOM x7-E3950 processor allow you to run a USB out device  at low power with an input voltage close to or at 5V. From what I've observed, using stylus endpoint basically separates the server player processing from the player output processing.... other players  like Roon/HQP do up sampling/down converting  at the server end but Euphony does it in the Stylus endpoint software. So better integrity in USB output processing using Stylus endpoint but doesn't work well if you are asking an atom processor to up-convert/down-convert sample rate.

[RickyV]

21 hours ago, Smaragdhk said:

I use Qobuz Studio Premier too…

Check your settings in Stylus -> settings-> music service -> audio settings

 

looks like you’re upsampling … try switching upsampling off… check again that it shows PCM24/192 and then try switching upsampling up again…

 

I don’t use upsampling in Stylus as my Marantz SA KI Ruby upsamples everything to DSD256. 

I have tried a lot of thinks but did not help. What did help was to switch off HQplayer and used stylus on it own. So with stylus it is 24bit in 24 out.

With HQplayer switched on it drops back to 16bit in 16 bit out, same song. The sampling frequency is good. 
 

Could it be that it is a faulty setting in HQplayer? I only use Qobuz. @Miska maybe, any idea?

 

 

[Miska]

34 minutes ago, RickyV said:

Could it be that it is a faulty setting in HQplayer? I only use Qobuz. @Miska maybe, any idea?

 

Do you get same results playing Qobuz or similar using mConnect Player app through HQPlayer's UPnP support?

 

[RickyV]

39 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Do you get same results playing Qobuz or similar using mConnect Player app through HQPlayer's UPnP support?

 

So far I have downloaded mConnect lite end I have switched on upnp in Euphony but it only finds my tv. 
Can’t find anything about upnp in the hqplayer user interface.

[Miska]

9 minutes ago, RickyV said:

So far I have downloaded mConnect lite end I have switched on upnp in Euphony but it only finds my tv. 
Can’t find anything about upnp in the hqplayer user interface.

 

No, you shouldn't be touching any UPnP stuff in Euphony. HQPlayer Embedded has UPnP Media Renderer feature built-in, it is enabled by default and should appear as "HQPlayerEmbedded" in your UPnP Control Point. (your Title setting in HQPlayer settings)

 

Point of this exercise is to use HQPlayer Embedded standalone without Euphony involvement. Make sure you save HQPlayer settings in HQPlayer web interface!

 

[87mpi]

8 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

No, you shouldn't be touching any UPnP stuff in Euphony. HQPlayer Embedded has UPnP Media Renderer feature built-in, it is enabled by default and should appear as "HQPlayerEmbedded" in your UPnP Control Point. (your Title setting in HQPlayer settings)

 

Point of this exercise is to use HQPlayer Embedded standalone without Euphony involvement. Make sure you save HQPlayer settings in HQPlayer web interface!

 

I follow with interest. I too have the same result as Ricky. I also tried to activate hqplayer embedded only in the euphony settings (and saved hqp settings on WI) but mconnect only sees my tv.

HQPe version is 4.24.0

[RickyV]

1 hour ago, 87mpi said:

I follow with interest. I too have the same result as Ricky. I also tried to activate hqplayer embedded only in the euphony settings (and saved hqp settings on WI) but mconnect only sees my tv.

HQPe version is 4.24.0

87mpi, is your hqplayer stil in it’s trial Period? If so what happens if you switch hqplayer on while playing hi-res 24bit song?

[87mpi]

1 hour ago, RickyV said:

87mpi, il tuo hqplayer è ancora in prova? In tal caso, cosa succede se accendi hqplayer durante la riproduzione di un brano ad alta risoluzione a 24 bit?

Ho la licenza HQPe. 

Ho appena scoperto la causa della conversione del flusso di input, sia da file locali che da streaming come qobuz, a 16 bit su eufonia quando HQPlayer è attivato. 

 

Il flag "Converti formati non DSD" DEVE ESSERE DISABILITATO! . 

 

 

Ho anche notato che comunque l'output di hqplayer era corretto anche se era mostrato sbagliato su eufonia. 

mi spiego meglio. 

Uso "Dac Bits impostato su 20 con il mio KTE Spring 3. Se il flag era attivo in Euphony posso vedere 16/192 - 16/768 (uso l'upsampling), ma nell'interfaccia web Embedded in output posso vedere il corretto formato impostato da 768/20/2.

Ciò che effettivamente cambia attivando quel flag è che converte tutto il flusso di input a 16 bit, e ciò accade effettivamente, perché l'input di hqplayer nel WI mostra 192/16/2 - 768/20/2 (con sovracampionamento in questo caso) 

 

 

 

[87mpi]

33 minutes ago, 87mpi said:

Ho la licenza HQPe. 

Ho appena scoperto la causa della conversione del flusso di input, sia da file locali che da streaming come qobuz, a 16 bit su eufonia quando HQPlayer è attivato. 

 

Il flag "Converti formati non DSD" DEVE ESSERE DISABILITATO! . 

 

 

Ho anche notato che comunque l'output di hqplayer era corretto anche se era mostrato sbagliato su eufonia. 

mi spiego meglio. 

Uso "Dac Bits impostato su 20 con il mio KTE Spring 3. Se il flag era attivo in Euphony posso vedere 16/192 - 16/768 (uso l'upsampling), ma nell'interfaccia web Embedded in output posso vedere il corretto formato impostato da 768/20/2.

Ciò che effettivamente cambia attivando quel flag è che converte tutto il flusso di input a 16 bit, e ciò accade effettivamente, perché l'input di hqplayer nel WI mostra 192/16/2 - 768/20/2 (con sovracampionamento in questo caso) 

 

 

 

 

I'm sorry for Italian, I write from smartphone with auto translate activated. 

 

I found that hqplayer converts streams from qobuz to 16-bit.

 

Example: a file from qobuz 24/96 becomes 16/96 in input if hqplayer is used.

 

This does not happen with local files.

 

Example: a local 24/96 file in hqplayer input remains 24/96

 

@Miska

Is it normal that Hqplayer converts streams from qobuz to 16bit?

[Miska]

17 minutes ago, 87mpi said:

Example: a local 24/96 file in hqplayer input remains 24/96

 

Your DAC can do only 96k?

 

17 minutes ago, 87mpi said:

@Miska

Is it normal that Hqplayer converts streams from qobuz to 16bit?

 

It doesn't... I just tested today too.

 

If unsure whether it is HQPlayer or Euphony related, please boot the HQPlayer OS image and check with it first.

 

[87mpi]

26 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Your DAC can do only 96k?

 

 

It doesn't... I just tested today too.

 

If unsure whether it is HQPlayer or Euphony related, please boot the HQPlayer OS image and check with it first.

 

No, my dac is Spring 3 KTE. 

 

In Euphony, if I play a 24/96 file from Qobuz, in the HQPe WI it shows 16/96/2 as input format.

 

This does not happen with local files.

 

If I play a local 24/96 file, in the HQPe WI it shows 24/96/2 as the input format.

 

[Miska]

58 minutes ago, 87mpi said:

No, my dac is Spring 3 KTE. 

 

In Euphony, if I play a 24/96 file from Qobuz, in the HQPe WI it shows 16/96/2 as input format.

 

This does not happen with local files.

 

If I play a local 24/96 file, in the HQPe WI it shows 24/96/2 as the input format.

 

Then your output should be 786k or 1.536M at 20-bit in case of PCM output, or 12.288M in case of SDM output.

 

How do you play Qobuz then if HQPlayer shows such as source format? How does HQPlayer play view look like?

 

[Miska]

Here's HQPlayer Embedded playing Qobuz to Holo Spring 3:

[87mpi]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

 

Then your output should be 786k or 1.536M at 20-bit in case of PCM output, or 12.288M in case of SDM output.

 

How do you play Qobuz then if HQPlayer shows such as source format? How does HQPlayer play view look like?

 

Exactly. 

On Euphony, If I play a local file 24/96, on HQPe WI at input format I can see 96/24/2 and in output I can see 768/20/2.

If I play the same file, but this time from Qobuz instead HD, in HQPe WI i can see 96/16/2 as input format, and output is 768/20/2.

[Miska]

37 minutes ago, 87mpi said:

On Euphony, If I play a local file 24/96, on HQPe WI at input format I can see 96/24/2 and in output I can see 768/20/2.

If I play the same file, but this time from Qobuz instead HD, in HQPe WI i can see 96/16/2 as input format, and output is 768/20/2.

 

There is something in Euphony messing with the input. What does HQPlayer web interface show about the source? This is why I recommended to try with HQPlayer's UPnP support since then Euphony software is out of picture.

 

[davide256]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

 

There is something in Euphony messing with the input. What does HQPlayer web interface show about the source? This is why I recommended to try with HQPlayer's UPnP support since then Euphony software is out of picture.

 

I have found Stylus using HQP up sampling to be buggy with Qobuz... looks like buffers in Stylus and buffers in HQP have contention problems

[Miska]

54 minutes ago, davide256 said:

I have found Stylus using HQP up sampling to be buggy with Qobuz... looks like buffers in Stylus and buffers in HQP have contention problems

 

What ever plays Qobuz using HQPlayer should just send the content URI to HQPlayer and HQPlayer plays it straight from the cloud CDN.

 

[jacky5555]

On 6/2/2019 at 8:50 PM, TheAttorney said:

My remaining question is regarding Optane drives: There are many options around, but most of them won't fit into the M.2 2280 slot of DN-boarded NUCs. I'm starting with a 32GB pure Optane to be the Euphony/Stylus boot drive (and with an external filestore drive), but to continue the KISS principle, it would be more elegant to use the H10 drive with a combined 32GB Optane + up to 1TB NAND, thereby keeping everything within the same box.

 

So my H10 questions are:

1. Can one boot Euphony/Stylus from the 32GB Optane partition, which then reads the music files from the NAND partition? 

2. Or is it better to put everything on the NAND partition and use the Optane as accelerator (which is after all its originally intended purpose)?

3. How would a H10 drive compare SQ-wise with Optane + external drive?

 

Solution 2 seems to be the most elegant to me, but it'snot clear if adding the NAND SSD onto the Optane card will make that drive as noisy as a typical SSD?

 

Have you bought the H10 @TheAttorney?
I have installed Euphony OS as well as music storage to my H10 for a year and how to make sure the OS had been installed to Optane partition (and not to NAND partition)?

[TheAttorney]

8 hours ago, jacky5555 said:

Have you bought the H10 @TheAttorney?
I have installed Euphony OS as well as music storage to my H10 for a year and how to make sure the OS had been installed to Optane partition (and not to NAND partition)?

I didn't go for the H10 in the end. Purely to keep things as risk-free as possible, I ordered a pre-installed fully working Optane solution from SimplyNUC: A pure Optane 32GB card pre-installed with free Ubuntu (and configured as an SSD, not as an accelerator). Which meant my start point was a fully working system that was easy to then overwrite Ubuntu with Euphony. There was space on the 32GB Optane to add some music files as a proof of concept, but for my main music filestore I simply plugged in a thumb drive into one of the NUC's USB sockets.

 

From a price/performance/operational/SQ perspective, this worked very well for me. But my total redbook FLAC filestore was under 256GB, so using a thumb drive was easy - it's not so suitable for those who have large music libraries.

 

So unfortunately I can't help with your H10 question, but if you don't get an answer in this forum, maybe you could try emailing your H10 or NUC supplier? SimplyNUC's tech department were very good at answering my questions at the time.

[KATARRAZZI]

On 17/10/2021 at 00:31, davide256 said:

 

Thật khó để nói nếu thẻ JCAT trong máy chủ cung cấp lợi ích tương tự như việc sử dụng một điểm cuối riêng biệt. Nhưng các thiết bị như Fitlet 2 hoặc Up Squared Edge

với bộ xử lý ATOM x7-E3950 cho phép bạn chạy thiết bị đầu ra USB ở mức công suất thấp với điện áp đầu vào gần hoặc bằng 5V. Từ những gì tôi đã quan sát, việc sử dụng điểm cuối stylus về cơ bản tách quá trình xử lý trình phát máy chủ khỏi xử lý đầu ra của trình phát .... những người chơi khác như Roon / HQP thực hiện chuyển đổi lấy mẫu / chuyển đổi ở đầu máy chủ nhưng Euphony thực hiện điều đó trong phần mềm điểm cuối Stylus . Vì vậy, tính toàn vẹn tốt hơn trong xử lý đầu ra USB bằng cách sử dụng điểm cuối Stylus nhưng không hoạt động tốt nếu bạn đang yêu cầu bộ xử lý nguyên tử tăng tốc độ chuyển đổi / chuyển đổi mẫu xuống.

I am also very interested in this!  Can we achieve the best sound quality with only 1 computer, even surpassing the 2-computer architecture!  (in case of not sampling by hqplayer)

[davide256]

11 minutes ago, KATARRAZZI said:

I am also very interested in this!  Can we achieve the best sound quality with only 1 computer, even surpassing the 2-computer architecture!  (in case of not sampling by hqplayer)

Actually a 3 computer architecture if you are using a NAS 😉

 

IME I did not have complete success using a 1 box solution, 95% of music sounded good but 5% sounded bad in ways that didn't occur on other systems. A good endpoint

has solved the remaining 5%. I suppose one can go the Taiko Extreme server route for a 1 box solution but that doesn't sound cost effective vs a server/endpoint solution.

 

[KATARRAZZI]

13 hours ago, davide256 said:

Actually a 3 computer architecture if you are using a NAS 😉

 

IME I did not have complete success using a 1 box solution, 95% of music sounded good but 5% sounded bad in ways that didn't occur on other systems. A good endpoint

has solved the remaining 5%. I suppose one can go the Taiko Extreme server route for a 1 box solution but that doesn't sound cost effective vs a server/endpoint solution.

 

I see there are still many different ways to play about using a very powerful 01 pc architecture or playing a 02 pc configuration with an endpoint with a low cpu clock! In particular, there are some opinions that the low clock speed of the cpu in stylusEP reduces the vividness and dynamism of the song. Even Željko once advised me if I had to choose between the two, I should prioritize upgrading to 01 PC mode first and invest in stylusEP later.

[Lukasluis]

13 minutes ago, KATARRAZZI said:

low clock speed of the cpu in stylusEP reduces the vividness and dynamism of the song. 

Agree with this, During my testings, the lowest CPU model for StylusEP that does not affect the dynamism and vividness is a NUC 7i3 with Hypertheading enabled. Lower than that and the sound became very smooth and flat.