Euphony OS w/Stylus player setup and issues thread

[al2813]

The last days I tried again testing using my PC as Roon + Stylus Ep vs Stylus player. While Stylus player does seem to have an edge in sound quality (although not huge), I have serious performance issues. Every time I change albums stylis player refuses to play. I need to restart the player a empty the cache before I can play again. No issues when using Roon. Very strange. 
 

 

 

[davide256]

14 hours ago, KATARRAZZI said:

I see there are still many different ways to play about using a very powerful 01 pc architecture or playing a 02 pc configuration with an endpoint with a low cpu clock! In particular, there are some opinions that the low clock speed of the cpu in stylusEP reduces the vividness and dynamism of the song. Even Željko once advised me if I had to choose between the two, I should prioritize upgrading to 01 PC mode first and invest in stylusEP later.

Not saying that you don't need a good server... but its important to be aware of what is useful for improving the server/player capability vs

what improves USB output. In many ways what improves the server for GUI and transcoding can worsen "digititus" effects for direct USB out.

Using a second machine allows you to isolate builds by functional synergy, server vs USB output device

 

As to low clock speed endpoints, I think its architecture rather than clock speed... a simpler hardware architecture is needed/better for endpoints vs a jack of all trades main board. I agree with what you describe in using 7PJYH Pentium and 7i3 NUC's as endpoint, but have no issues using an Atom processor board

so long as the track fits in RAM and I don't do any rate conversions at the endpoint.  (Atom BTW is also a common NAS processor)

[RickyV]

On 10/17/2021 at 11:06 PM, Miska said:

 

There is something in Euphony messing with the input. What does HQPlayer web interface show about the source? This is why I recommended to try with HQPlayer's UPnP support since then Euphony software is out of picture.

 

This is what the HQplayer web interface is showing.

This is the song playing:

 

HQplayer web interface with the same song, 3:29 minutes.

 

Settings in Euphony with “convert non-DSD formats” off.

 

 

Setting in HQplayer web interface 
 

 

[davide256]

6 minutes ago, RickyV said:

This is what the HQplayer web interface is showing.

This is the song playing:

 

HQplayer web interface with the same song, 3:29 minutes.

 

Settings in Euphony with “convert non-DSD formats” off.

 

 

Setting in HQplayer web interface 
 

 

 

 

uhh, that 192 to 353 is likely a problem, least it messes up playback for me In Euphony. Try turning on auto family so that it give you 384 instead (assuming

thats your max supported speed in HQP config)

[RickyV]

19 minutes ago, davide256 said:

 

uhh, that 192 to 353 is likely a problem, least it messes up playback for me In Euphony. Try turning on auto family so that it give you 384 instead (assuming

thats your max supported speed in HQP config)

No I can’t, I am using convolution filters for my Raal headphone and those convolution files are 352khz max. I can choose lower. The sample frequencies are not the problem it is the same if I input a 24bit, 44.1 file, Euphony will show 16/44-> 16/352

[davide256]

2 hours ago, RickyV said:

No I can’t, I am using convolution filters for my Raal headphone and those convolution files are 352khz max. I can choose lower. The sample frequencies are not the problem it is the same if I input a 24bit, 44.1 file, Euphony will show 16/44-> 16/352

Correct… 353 is a multiple of 44.1 kHz clock.  It is not a multiple of 48 kHz clock W

[davide256]

Was running into failure trying to do HQP embedded to NAA with Stylus server. HQP wouldn’t launch if the Stylus server output selected wasn’t a local device. Connecting a Schiit Eitr and choosing it for output in Stylus server has allowed me to start HQP output for Stylus and select NAA output to endpoint DAC. Useful because CPU and memory use are far lower using NAA than Stylus endpoint. One does need to remember to say none for 1x upsampling filter in the native HQP configuration screen if you want straight pass thru with HQP

[87mpi]

On 10/19/2021 at 8:13 PM, RickyV said:

This is what the HQplayer web interface is showing.

This is the song playing:

 

HQplayer web interface with the same song, 3:29 minutes.

 

Settings in Euphony with “convert non-DSD formats” off.

 

 

Setting in HQplayer web interface 
 

 

Track played is from local disk or streaming? 

I think is a streaming source..

I found that when upsampling with HQP the stream is converted to 16bit. If you play with HQP but with original samplerate (without Resampling) this problem does not occur, the track shows 24 bits in input in the HQPe web interface.

[RickyV]

2 hours ago, 87mpi said:

Track played is from local disk or streaming? 

I think is a streaming source..

I found that when upsampling with HQP the stream is converted to 16bit. If you play with HQP but with original samplerate (without Resampling) this problem does not occur, the track shows 24 bits in input in the HQPe web interface.

yep it’s streaming from Qobuz.

The way I see it is, input format is 192khz, 2 channel, 16 bit.

Output is 352.8khz, 32 bit, 2 channel.  Very strenge figures if you ask me.

 

I will probably open up an other ticked to Z 

Just tried it with the new Pink Floyd, animals album. It’s a 24 bit, 192khz album. I  disabled the convolution filters set the output rate limit and sample rate to 192khz and pushed reloaded page. The main page in hqplayer web interface still  showed, format 192000/2/16 and output 192000/32/2. BTW Euphony is still showing 16/192->16/192

I think Euphony is showing or doing some strange things.

 

[Darryl R]

After reconfiguring some network things I decided to give Euphony a try and love it.  They've really done a nice job.  What I like best are the lower level options that allow preloading OS and play queue, and the fact that I no longer need tags with file view.  And the UI is actually quite good now.  I'm just about done with my testing and am more than ready to can Roon.

[davide256]

9 hours ago, Darryl R said:

After reconfiguring some network things I decided to give Euphony a try and love it.  They've really done a nice job.  What I like best are the lower level options that allow preloading OS and play queue, and the fact that I no longer need tags with file view.  And the UI is actually quite good now.  I'm just about done with my testing and am more than ready to can Roon.

Do give Roon a try using a separate PC as Stylus endpoint with HQP control protocol One thing Roon does well is talk to multiple endpoints and handle rate conversion at the server. While I like Stylus server it does tend to bite the hand that feeds it more than Roon does

[walloon]

3 hours ago, davide256 said:

Do give Roon a try using a separate PC as Stylus endpoint with HQP control protocol One thing Roon does well is talk to multiple endpoints and handle rate conversion at the server. While I like Stylus server it does tend to bite the hand that feeds it more than Roon does

I agree and if you don't upsample, you can just use HQP transport protocol which doesn't require a licence.

[zeblo69]

13 minutes ago, walloon said:

I agree and if you don't upsample, you can just use HQP transport protocol which doesn't require a licence.

My personal experience: tried almost all combinations and for me Stylus itself (in one fanless nuc) gives the best sound, which is the target. No need of HQP or Roon. Of course Roon has still a little better interface but Stylus is for me more than enough... 

[walloon]

19 minutes ago, zeblo69 said:

My personal experience: tried almost all combinations and for me Stylus itself (in one fanless nuc) gives the best sound, which is the target. No need of HQP or Roon. Of course Roon has still a little better interface but Stylus is for me more than enough... 

I agree with that also. Having a separate Roon server allows me to switch my Euphony (in a fanless Akasa box) to Euphony EP connected to Roon or to Euphony for serious listening in a matter of seconds. In that case, the Roon server can still stream to other endpoints such as macbook, iPhone etc.

 

And I like the Roon interface a lot :-)

[Smaragdhk]

Same here, using Euphony Stylus in a single 10i7NUC in a fanless HDPlex, powered by Keces P8 19V LPS, with the OS loaded on the new Revelation Audio M.2 NVME SSD drive that is also powered by a Keces P3 5V LPS. I can swap in a matter of seconds to Roon Core, Airplay Server etc.

Perfect one box solution for serious critical listening. My preference is Euphony Stylus running everything native, cached to drive, so upsampling. Streaming from Synology NAS also powered via Keces P8 12V and an TCXO switch running off the 5V USB from one of the Keces P8 LPS... or streaming from Qobuz and Tidal via the same setup... Very intoxicating :) 

[Smaragdhk]

Edit: no upsampling... as my DAC (Marantz SA KI Ruby) already does upsample everything to DSD 11.2MHz

[Darryl R]

8 hours ago, Smaragdhk said:

Same here, using Euphony Stylus in a single 10i7NUC in a fanless HDPlex, powered by Keces P8 19V LPS, with the OS loaded on the new Revelation Audio M.2 NVME SSD drive that is also powered by a Keces P3 5V LPS. I can swap in a matter of seconds to Roon Core, Airplay Server etc.

Perfect one box solution for serious critical listening. My preference is Euphony Stylus running everything native, cached to drive, so upsampling. Streaming from Synology NAS also powered via Keces P8 12V and an TCXO switch running off the 5V USB from one of the Keces P8 LPS... or streaming from Qobuz and Tidal via the same setup... Very intoxicating :) 

 

While the Roon UI impresses, I never liked the dependency on tag data, nor the convoluted explanations from Roon Support why their metadata-driven approach is superior when it doesn't solve a problem you're reporting.  My music is mostly classical with some jazz and pop, and I came up with a way to automate tag population, but Roon has warned my approach could break in the future.  In the end, I much prefer working directly from my file structure, something Roon has vowed to never support.  The things Roon does best are not important to me.  My DAC likes all native too.  Even with Euphony Stylus on USB (but with RAMROOT), another detail obscuring layer seemed to peel away.

[Smaragdhk]

3 minutes ago, Darryl R said:

 

While the Roon UI impresses, I never liked the dependency on tag data, nor the convoluted explanations from Roon Support why their metadata-driven approach is superior when it doesn't solve a problem you're reporting.  My music is mostly classical with some jazz and pop, and I came up with a way to automate tag population, but Roon has warned my approach could break in the future.  In the end, I much prefer working directly from my file structure, something Roon has vowed to never support.  The things Roon does best are not important to me.  My DAC likes all native too.  Even with Euphony Stylus on USB (but with RAMROOT), another detail obscuring layer seemed to peel away.

Yup, totally agree with regards to tags … it’s all in the metadata … after ripping CDs and SACDs I bring everything in Yate, a Mac OS based metadata editor to make sure all albums have the right metadata aggregated from various repositories. That includes the correct album art as well. Then in that case I always see the correct tracks names, album names, artists and album art, I dependant from what Roon or Euphony grabs from the net … which often gives incomplete or wrong info. 

[Darryl R]

22 hours ago, Smaragdhk said:

Yup, totally agree with regards to tags … it’s all in the metadata … after ripping CDs and SACDs I bring everything in Yate, a Mac OS based metadata editor to make sure all albums have the right metadata aggregated from various repositories. That includes the correct album art as well. Then in that case I always see the correct tracks names, album names, artists and album art, I dependant from what Roon or Euphony grabs from the net … which often gives incomplete or wrong info. 

 

But even when you feed correct tag data and tell it to use it, Roon still doesn't consistently do so, and they were fine with that, because their OO programming was so great,

 

Oh well, on to better things for those more interested in SQ.

[dminches]

Can someone remind me how I copy my version of Euphony onto my M.2 drive? Right now I am booting from the USB stick.

 

[dminches]

2 hours ago, dminches said:

Can someone remind me how I copy my version of Euphony onto my M.2 drive? Right now I am booting from the USB stick.

 

 

Now that I am running a registered version there is a copy option.

 

[maxst67]

Hello to all. I installed euphony on a 32 gb Optane ssd and would like to try jplay for some comparison, or maybe have both. Do you think partitioning the ssd would fit both euphony and wind enterprice (or other) with jplay and some audio optimization program? Thank you

[Anwar]

1 hour ago, maxst67 said:

Hello to all. I installed euphony on a 32 gb Optane ssd and would like to try jplay for some comparison, or maybe have both. Do you think partitioning the ssd would fit both euphony and wind enterprice (or other) with jplay and some audio optimization program? Thank you

 

32 GB SSD is not sufficient for Windows installation.  There are 3 partitions after Win 10 installation (UEFI boot, O/S and recovery).  The O/S partition itself is 34 GB after necessary drivers and apps installations, then additional SSD space is needed for use as virtual memory.

[al2813]

On 10/28/2021 at 6:18 PM, Darryl R said:

 

 I came up with a way to automate tag population

 

Can you share this method?  I want to move away from Roon to use Euphony Stylus stand alone, but my tagging is so s***** and fixing it proved to be so difficult that parting with Roon becomes a real issue.

[maxst67]

11 hours ago, Anwar said:

 

32 GB SSD is not sufficient for Windows installation.  There are 3 partitions after Win 10 installation (UEFI boot, O/S and recovery).  The O/S partition itself is 34 GB after necessary drivers and apps installations, then additional SSD space is needed for use as virtual memory.

Thank you very much for the advice, I ordered a 256gb Intel optane to host both operating systems .... I read in your post that you used manually optimized windows 10, can you please tell me where to find a good guide for this optimization? Thanks again