Lush^2 - Share your configuration experiences

[fas42]

3 hours ago, xxx1313 said:

Up to now, I always had a number of ferrite beads on my USB cables, which changed the sound a bit for better, imo, reducing audible EMI/RFI. I liked the Lush^2 from the first minute, so I did not try any ferrites in the beginning. With the JSSG 360 shielding, I also did not expect that ferrites would make any difference. Now I tried them, and surprisingly, they do make a difference. With ferrites on the Lush^2, the huge sound stage collapses. So I will not bother any more with adding ferrites. Lush^2 is great without them.

 

Nevertheless, I wonder, why ferrites still have an effect on the sound (for the worse) with JSSG 360 shielding in place?

 

This is very significant, and gives strong clues about where the behaviour of the digital waveforms impacts the analogue side of things - the ferrites cause the sound to degrade severely, because they disturb the cable's ability to transfer the data in a manner which causes minimal disruption to the analogue processing.

[PeterSt]

9 hours ago, xxx1313 said:

Nevertheless, I wonder, why ferrites still have an effect on the sound (for the worse) with JSSG 360 shielding in place?

 

That should be easy enough to reason out;

Once we take it that any random means of shielding influences the sound in a different way (no matter how it happens) then the ferrite is just another way of shielding; it should be possible to find a way with the Lush^2 shields to kind of achieve the same behavior as you currently have it without the shield. Question of course would be : why bother.

 

What's more important for possible conclusion is that a ferrite (HF) filters and it does that explicitly. So say that you use it to filter out HF noise and with a frequency which is beyond (higher than) what the USB connection uses. Say that this is 480MHz.

From this could theoretically be derived that the shielding isn't "shielding" as such but that it merely filters the noise in all kinds of ways (per configuration differently) and that that in itself influences sound. Watch out : this does not at all mean that a lower frequency roll off for the applied filter implies a more muffled sound (as in : less highs). Instead, the noise signature changes and that in itself changes the behavior in the D/A process (and that still through a couple of layers, a/w the USB receiver and of course in advance of that the numerous Isolators we all use ).

How this is exactly influencing the frequency emphasis (always different for the other config) is an other matter.

 

To sort of very indirectly answer the last question (with a question) : Did people ever notice that when things really work out in your system that plainly everything is emphasized and that this surely does NOT resemble putting up the volume ?

Well, if we can work out why and how this happens, we'll have the answer to our USB gag too. To me the behavior is exactly the same with the difference that we can kind of choose where the emphasis is to be. And when we found the "really all" configuration, I am pretty sure we have found Walhalla.

Mind you, normally we won't be capable of "tuning" with this because we just found "one" situation; We bought a new amplifier and it does what it does. Get new speakers and net the behavior is different again. Obtain a new USB cable and again all is different(ly showing to us). And now we have a USB cable which allows for this tuning ...

 

Theoretically the noise should come from outside and can be filtered (shielded) to some extent, OR the noise is just in there and we close it in to some extent. On the latter : when it is closed in, it will reflect on the shield(s) back to the inside. When it is not closed in, it will radiate to the outside. And the former : when we filter it successfully, it means that there is an external source radiating the "noise".

The filtering means is not really the most plausible because we start to see by now that the configs work out the same for almost everybody (everybody but one as far as we can tell at this moment). So everyone owns the same source of radiation ? No.

Closing in is therefore more plausible because everybody uses the same USB protocol.

 

And when we think we may start to understand, I have a new one : what about first the cable itself is radiating, that we close that in more or less, but the less that happens the more a field emerges around the cable which again can be filtered more or less towards the inside. Now we have a double influence which also may explain how three shields work together (think of a balance of closing in and let out but filter back in to some extent - and back to the outside again).

 

Mind you, totally nothing tells us that it is better to have less noise in the signal. This is already so because it is not an analogue signal we're talking about (never mind electrically it is analogue). Its influence to the A/D process and possibly beyond (influence to the analogue stages) will be what does the job and no way that I will be able to explain how that makes the sound better or worse (more or less genuine).

 

Peter

[austinpop]

Resistance is futile. Lush^2 ordered.  ? 

[Superdad]

19 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Resistance is futile.

 

Nah, it’s just voltage divided by current.  

 

I’m going to begin my 8 hour horizontal meditation now.  Ohm....   zzzzzz.....

[str-1]

I’m almost ready to put in an order for a Lush^2 but first would welcome some feel for how wide a range of impacts I might expect to hear from the different configurations. I’m most interested in getting a bit more detail (compared to the original Lush I already have) without losing very much of the tonal richness, but could I, for example, get close to the sound of a Curious cable if I wanted to?

[BigAlMc]

6 hours ago, austinpop said:

Resistance is futile. Lush^2 ordered.  ? 

 

It was always just a matter of time! ?

[lmitche]

Lush^1.5 - Yesterday, I managed to get the seeming favorite A: B-W-Y-R  B: B-W-R  configuration working today with my Lush 1 cable and two layers of tinned copper braid. Easy to do and it indeed delivers a nice SQ improvement. We will see what happens after break-in if anything.

[sig8]

Deleted.

[sig8]

 You start from the red dot, but what is to say if pins are shorted or left open? Thanks.

[elcorso]

4 minutes ago, sig8 said:

 You start from the red dot, but what is to say if pins are shorted or left open? Thanks.

 

Red dot is the reference to make connections. The closer to Pin 1.

 

Pins 1, 2, 3, 4 are shorted in the connector.

 

Pin 5 & 6 are shorted in the connector.

 

It's easy to follow pictures posted in this thread to make the pinout you want to try.

 

Roch

 

 

[PeterSt]

Just notifying everyone that from of today (Monday Oct 1, 2018) all Lush^2 go out with 

 

A: B-W-Y-R, B: B-W-R

 

until further notice of course.

 

Peter

[sig8]

3 hours ago, PeterSt said:

Just notifying everyone that from of today (Monday Oct 1, 2018) all Lush^2 go out with 

 

A: B-W-Y-R, B: B-W-R

 

until further notice of course.

 

Peter

 

Does this mean on A connector; starting from pin with red dot connect Black(pin 1 with red dot)-White(pin 2)-Yellow(pin 3)-Red(pin 4) and short pin 5 and 6 (they are shorted anyway?

 

Is this different than B-W & Y-R, where starting from pin with red dot, Black(1)-White(2), Short pin 3 and 4, Yellow(5)-Red(6)?

[AB835]

Peter 

Lush 2  - A: B-W-Y-R, B: B-W-R  replaced what I considered my reference Cable between Iso Regen and Ayre QX-5 20.. Been listening to this configuration for 6 days now. " "Unbelievable Improvement"", Thanks Peter.

 

[tims]

12 hours ago, lmitche said:

Lush^1.5 - Yesterday, I managed to get the seeming favorite A: B-W-Y-R  B: B-W-R  configuration working today with my Lush 1 cable and two layers of tinned copper braid. Easy to do and it indeed delivers a nice SQ improvement. We will see what happens after break-in if anything.

Hi @lmitche

I want to try this on my Lush^1.  To make use of the Lush^1 inner shield (W) did you run/solder a wire from the  USB plug metal outer shell (B) to the 360 braids (Y&R)?

Thanks

[lmitche]

1 hour ago, tims said:

Hi @lmitche

I want to try this on my Lush^1.  To make use of the Lush^1 inner shield (W) did you run/solder a wire from the  USB plug metal outer shell (B) to the 360 braids (Y&R)?

 

Thanks

Hi Tim's,

 

Yes, that's the way on A side, not the B side. On the B side join the wire to the outside shield only and ensure the middle shield isn't touching anything.

[bluebeat]

9 hours ago, AB835 said:

Peter 

Lush 2  - A: B-W-Y-R, B: B-W-R  replaced what I considered my reference Cable between Iso Regen and Ayre QX-5 20.. Been listening to this configuration for 6 days now. " "Unbelievable Improvement"", Thanks Peter.

 

Hi AB835

As another QX-5/20 owner I'm very curious... What was your reference cable? And in what way(s) did the Lush^2 bring improvement?

Thanks!

[PeterSt]

14 hours ago, sig8 said:

Does this mean on A connector; starting from pin with red dot connect Black(pin 1 with red dot)-White(pin 2)-Yellow(pin 3)-Red(pin 4) and short pin 5 and 6 (they are shorted anyway?

 

Hi - Yes. The "short" of pin 5-6 it not about shorting as such but to put a jumper on it to prevent shortcutting with something else, which could be one of the wires (not in this case because they are all connected but it is just good behavior).

 

14 hours ago, sig8 said:

Is this different than B-W & Y-R, where starting from pin with red dot, Black(1)-White(2), Short pin 3 and 4, Yellow(5)-Red(6)?

 

Yes that is different than the former; the former connects all together, while this one connects the connector to White and separately from that Yellow and Red are connected to each other (so these now do not connect to the connector).

[xxx1313]

I have to add something to the configuration:

 

A: B-W-Y-R, B: B-W-R, F-A: N-T, A: S-T-I-C ??

[sig8]

7 hours ago, PeterSt said:

 

Hi - Yes. The "short" of pin 5-6 it not about shorting as such but to put a jumper on it to prevent shortcutting with something else, which could be one of the wires (not in this case because they are all connected but it is just good behavior).

 

 

Yes that is different than the former; the former connects all together, while this one connects the connector to White and separately from that Yellow and Red are connected to each other (so these now do not connect to the connector).

I think I know how it works, but honestly, I have not seen any clear instructions. I have the cable, i have the paper which came with it with ten diagrams, but it does not correlate to the language we are talking here. It would be nice if you added A:B-Y-R-W......, etc. to that page. At this point does not matter how it works internally, I only want to know when someone says A:B-Y & W-R..., etc. what that means. Seems like a simple thing to explain. There are four jumper wires, and six pins, so when to connect what is the question. 

[tims]

8 minutes ago, sig8 said:

I think I know how it works, but honestly, I have not seen any clear instructions. I have the cable, i have the paper which came with it with ten diagrams, but it does not correlate to the language we are talking here. It would be nice if you added A:B-Y-R-W......, etc. to that page. At this point does not matter how it works internally, I only want to know when someone says A:B-Y & W-R..., etc. what that means. Seems like a simple thing to explain. There are four jumper wires, and six pins, so when to connect what is the question. 

A-B & W-R means A and B are connected together and W and R are connected together. On the diagram below (bottom left box) A and B would be connected to pins 1 & 2 or pins 2 & 3 etc etc and W and R would be connected to pins 5 and 6 only.

 

 

 

 

[PeterSt]

It honestly is as difficult for me as for many.  

 

5 hours ago, sig8 said:

I only want to know when someone says A:B-Y & W-R..., etc. what that means.

 

It is already quite hard to see how a mistake sneaked in, in this phrase :

 

5 hours ago, tims said:

A-B & W-R means A and B are connected together and W and R are connected together.

 

... Because A does not exist as a connection as such. So I will try to rephrase without error :

 

B-W & Y-R means B and W are connected together and Y and R are connected together.

or

B-W & Y-R means B(lack) and W(white) are connected together and Y(ellow) and R(ed) are connected together.

(and believe it or not, but I already did the above wrongly myself, at first)

 

The color notations come from this : 

 

And the B(lack) is always the connector : 

 

We have three schields (screens). From the inner to the outer these are connected respectively to the White, Yellow and Red wires.

 

So if we want to connect the connector to the outer shield, we say B-R.

 

If we'd like to connect the middle shield to the outer shield, we say Y-R.

 

If we want to connect the connector to the middle shield and to the outer shield : B-Y-R.

 

If we want to connect the connector to the inner shield and apart from that the middle shield to the outer shield : B-W & Y-R.

That is the same as what we said here :

Quote

B-W & Y-R means B and W are connected together and Y and R are connected together.

 

If we want the latter in connector A (which is the USB A connector) : A: B-W & Y-R.

 

Would we like to apply that to connector B, then : B: B-W & Y-R.

 

Supposed we want to have this at both ends of the cable the same : A: B-W & Y-R, B: B-W & Y-R.

 

The same but the B connector only connected to the middle shield : A: B-W & Y-R, B: B-Y.

 

Same again, but in the B connector also the inner and outer shield connected, not connected to the connector : A: B-W & Y-R, B: B-Y & W-R

  

Same again but in the B connector all shields connected to it : A: B-W & Y-R, B: B-Y-W-R   

which would for logic reasons better be noted as this but which is the very same :  A: B-W & Y-R, B: B-W-Y-R

 

 

[AB835]

bluebeat

 

I used a Wireworld Platinum starlight with my Ayre QX-5 20 and was extremely happy. I have tried 2 configurations on the Lush 2 that were not really any better, The third        A: B-Y & W-R , B:  B-Y  was as Peter described earlier and lasted for 4 days. I then changed to A: B-W-Y-R , B: B-W-R, now 7 day ago. When i listen to Channel Classics CCS SA19503  “ La Stravaganza”, which I have many times, as best I can describe, it now “feels and sounds” as if  Rachel Podger and Arte Dei Suonatori are in the room with me.

[bluebeat]

Hi @AB835

 

That helps! Great, thanks!

 

Would you describe the sound with the Lush^2 A: B-W-Y-R , B: B-W-R significantly warmer? How about detail - same level as the Wireworld Platinum Starlight, or more or less? 

 

Do you also use the Ayre AX-5/20?

 

Sorry about all the questions - I've narrowed my choice down to two cables, the Lush^2 and the (much more expensive) Habst Ultra III. And I'm trying to decide...

 

Marc

[sig8]

Peter: Thanks for long explanation, but it is missing a key point; how it all relates to pins, we are certainly not saying to expose red and white wire and twist them together when we say R-W. I think I know but just trying to make sure, don't need to know how it connects to what shield and all, or A means A-type connector and color scheme, etc. Let's try one more time:

 

How A: B-R & W-Y different than A:B-R-W-Y (I am just using it as an example, and interested in knowing the pin position for B, R, W, and Y cables, and the use of jumpers in each case).

 

or just confirm:

 

A: B-R & W-Y means connect B(1), R(2), 3(open nothing connected), 4 (open nothing connected), W(5), Y(6)

A:B-R-W-Y means connect B(1), R(2), W(3), Y(4), short 5 and 6 with a jumper

 

Pin 1 is the one with red dot.

[PeterSt]

7 minutes ago, sig8 said:

A: B-R & W-Y means connect B(1), R(2), 3(open nothing connected), 4 (open nothing connected), W(5), Y(6)

 

Correct

 

8 minutes ago, sig8 said:

A:B-R-W-Y means connect B(1), R(2), W(3), Y(4), short 5 and 6 with a jumper

 

and correct.