MQA is Vaporware

[manueljenkin]

At this point I'm convinced no one here has any idea about wavelets. Anyway I got the answers/recommendations I was seeking in PM and hence I'll excuse myself from this discussion (unless someone has a resource on the specific topic).

 

I wish you all a happy back and forth ranting to 1000 pages and beyond, and maybe Bob stuart would plan to engage with you all. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 minute ago, manueljenkin said:

At this point I'm convinced no one here has any idea about wavelets. Anyway I got the answers/recommendations I was seeking in PM and hence I'll excuse myself from this discussion (unless someone has a resource on the specific topic).

 

I wish you all a happy back and forth ranting to 1000 pages and beyond, and maybe Bob stuart would plan to engage with you all. 

Wow.

[John Dyson]

5 minutes ago, manueljenkin said:

At this point I'm convinced no one here has any idea about wavelets. Anyway I got the answers/recommendations I was seeking in PM and hence I'll excuse myself from this discussion (unless someone has a resource on the specific topic).

 

I wish you all a happy back and forth ranting to 1000 pages and beyond, and maybe Bob stuart would plan to engage with you all. 

There are all kinds of textbooks and online info about wavelets.   They are one of a series of possible basis functions...   As basis functions, they are a math tool...   Best to get basic academic information from academic sources.  Usually, wavelets are orthogonal basis functions -- look into stuff ike DCT, KLT, etc to get started with those kinds of things.

 

Usually when working on very complex, technical things, I become somewhat of an expert in the specific area -- it takes time to learn the stuff. Once you get up to speed, there will be people who  use wavelets for things like compression, revealing various kinds of spectral information,etc - and then they can take you further into the area that you want to learn.  Sometimes, like in my area of interest, I had to start from 30+yrs engineering experience and LOTS of basic knowlege about DSP/RT software, etc....  Beyond that, I had to learn everything myself, including developing NEW technology.   No matter what one knows in the past, there are always new things to learn!!!  Learning takes work, and pushing technology is even more work -- and often very difficult.

 

There are other people like me in this group and others -- find someone who is interested in what you are interested in.  We have our own areas of interest.

If someone wants to know everything there is to know about dynamics processing, I can certainly get them started.  Maybe you can find

someone who is a local expert in 'wavelets'.   Frankly, I'd look more towards an engineering (EE/Math) forum of some kind -- maybe something like

DSP related (www.dsprelated.com)...  I lurk there also.

 

There is too much out there to know everything about everything.

 

John

 

[KeenObserver]

23 minutes ago, manueljenkin said:

At this point I'm convinced no one here has any idea about wavelets. Anyway I got the answers/recommendations I was seeking in PM and hence I'll excuse myself from this discussion (unless someone has a resource on the specific topic).

 

I wish you all a happy back and forth ranting to 1000 pages and beyond, and maybe Bob stuart would plan to engage with you all. 

 

Seems you have provoked quite a few people here over a period of time. Have you found what you are looking for?

[manueljenkin]

15 minutes ago, John Dyson said:

There are all kinds of textbooks and online info about wavelets.   They are one of a series of possible basis functions...   As basis functions, they are a math tool...   Best to get basic academic information from academic sources.  Usually, wavelets are orthogonal basis functions -- look into stuff ike DCT, KLT, etc to get started with those kinds of things.

 

Usually when working on very complex, technical things, I become somewhat of an expert in the specific area -- it takes time to learn the stuff. Once you get up to speed, there will be people who  use wavelets for things like compression, revealing various kinds of spectral information,etc - and then they can take you further into the area that you want to learn.  Sometimes, like in my area of interest, I had to start from 30+yrs engineering experience and LOTS of basic knowlege about DSP/RT software, etc....  Beyond that, I had to learn everything myself, including developing NEW technology.   No matter what one knows in the past, there are always new things to learn!!!  Learning takes work, and pushing technology is even more work -- and often very difficult.

 

There are other people like me in this group and others -- find someone who is interested in what you are interested in.  We have our own areas of interest.

If someone wants to know everything there is to know about dynamics processing, I can certainly get them started.  Maybe you can find

someone who is a local expert in 'wavelets'.   Frankly, I'd look more towards an engineering (EE/Math) forum of some kind -- maybe something like

DSP related (www.dsprelated.com)...  I lurk there also.

 

There is too much out there to know everything about everything.

 

John

 

Thank you. I went through a few youtube videos to get a basic idea of the structure of the basis functions.

 

There were a few subjects I read books to understand only to find that they miss out on specific information or convolute simple things too much, and then have to run through online to really fill in the gaps (this can be frustrating if you're a beginner in the domain, especially if a better alternative is present). Hence I was seeking specific advice on books that I felt someone else here would have been through this topic already.

[manueljenkin]

8 minutes ago, KeenObserver said:

 

Seems you have provoked quite a few people here over a period of time. Have you found what you are looking for?

If a person asking for recommendations for books on a topic gets someone provoked I think they must have got serious issues.

[KeenObserver]

1 minute ago, manueljenkin said:

If someone asking for recommendations for books on a topic gets someone provoked I think they must have got serious issues.

 

Well then, many people here must have serious issues because reading all your past posts, many people have been provoked by you.

Good luck.

[John Dyson]

Just now, manueljenkin said:

Thank you. I went through a few youtube videos to get a basic idea of the structure of the basis functions.

 

There were a few subjects I read books to understand only to find that they miss out on specific information or convolute simple things too much, and then have to run through online to really fill in the gaps (this can be frustrating if you're a beginner in the domain, especially if a better alternative is present). Hence I was seeking specific advice on books that I felt someone else here would have been through this topic already.

Kind and respectul suggestion for the future -- it might have been better to join in with a new topic (perhaps in the objective section.)   You started into a controversial subject, and there is a certain mindset that each of us has when addressing that subject.

If starting into a more tecnical forum topic (or starting one) (from the beginning), your impression of the availability of help would be much more positive.

 

Everyone here (well most of us)  have a very strong sense of doing something positive.  MQA advocacy is not a well received agenda.  Sometimes, people like you, just have an innocent interest.   Again, I would have probably started a new topic asking for help.

 

Dont feel too bad about joining in with a new topic.   I am pretty sure that as long as it has some technical/audio interest, even if about highly technical matters or detailed math -- people will not generally be offended.  In the very very very very worst case, the topic might be deleted (super unlikely.)

 

Just my 2cents.

 

John

 

[KeenObserver]

Now, getting back to MQA.  Can anyone tell me what the February 16, 2021 posting on Companies House for MQA LTD. means.  Have they obtained new financing to continue their business?

[fas42]

Just found a rather neat summing up, which I don't think has been linked to before, https://ask.audio/articles/mqa-is-this-codec-masquerading-as-high-quality-audio

[MikeyFresh]

Bloomberg is reporting LG Electronics is considering the shuttering of their mobile phone business after talks to sell it in January seemingly broke down. 

 

Looks like no more MQA enabled phones.

[UkPhil]

Looks like we have a poll on the go on social media 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Radio Paradise MQA Audio Coming Exclusively to BluOS Players

BluOS, Radio Paradise and MQA collaborate to add an MQA audio option to popular global internet radio station catering to serious music listeners PICKERING, ONTARIO, CANADA, MARCH 30, 2021 – Radio Paradise, Lenbrook International and MQA today announced a new hifi internet radio service exclusive to the BluOS platform. Radio Paradise, a listener-supported internet radio station known for its high quality audio streams, is now providing MQA-encoded audio on all four of its mix channels, utilizing high-resolution 24-bit masters where available. Lenbrook International, the owner and developer of the market-leading BluOS high-resolution multi-room platform, has announced that all BluOS devices will receive an update in April 2021 to enable Radio Paradise MQA as a native music streaming option. It will be included in all current and future BluOS Enabled devices from leading audio brands like Bluesound, NAD Electronics, DALI Loudspeakers, Monitor Audio, Roksan, Peachtree and PSB Speakers. The collaboration marks the first time an internet radio station will carry MQA-encoded content. “As music lovers and audiophiles ourselves it was a revelation to hear the performance difference in music when encoded into MQA, even when only 16 bit/44 kHz masters are available,” explained Bill Goldsmith, long-time radio personality and founder of Radio Paradise. “It’s a unique opportunity for us to provide improved audio performance to our BluOS listeners who are very serious about their content quality. The team at BluOS has been 100% committed to delivering high-res audio direct to the listening room and has long supported our work at Radio Paradise. Our shared values for best-in-class audio make this collaboration a totally natural evolution.” “Radio Paradise MQA is the perfect vehicle for the musical curation of Bill and the Radio Paradise team," says Mike Jbara, CEO of MQA. "We are proud to play a part in helping showcase their talent and expertise alongside our long-time collaborators on the BluOS platform team. The world's best sounding entertainment is what customers of BluOS have come to expect following their years of leadership and innovation In high-resolution audio."   “The BluOS ecosystem has the largest selection of MQA enabled players in the world,” states Gord Simmonds, President & CEO of The Lenbrook Group, the company developing the BluOS platform. “We wanted to offer our discerning customers something they cannot get anywhere else. Now our BluOS family of brands and their global customers have an exclusive 24/7 mix of MQA content at their fingertips. To partner with Bill and Radio Paradise and our MQA friends to offer this great sounding music to our customers, for whom high resolution audio and hifi are paramount, is an outstanding alignment of our shared visions.”

[The Computer Audiophile]

On one hand this sucks because I love Radio Paradise and I hate to see them sucked into this. On the other hand, at least it's exclusive to Bluesound devices. 

[MikeyFresh]

34 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

On one hand this sucks because I love Radio Paradise and I hate to see them sucked into this. On the other hand, at least it's exclusive to Bluesound devices. 

It does suck, and I'd like to understand it better. Does this mean non-BluOS users will be hearing MQA encoded tracks on Radio Paradise at something akin to 14-bit quality, due to their hardware not being Bluesound brand?

 

In other words, is Radio Paradise going to be replacing the standard Redbook tracks they would have typically streamed in the past with MQA encoded versions, or will there perhaps be a fully separate stream that is a different URL, for the MQA crap and BluOS users?

[firedog]

Quote

BluOS devices will receive an update in April 2021 to enable Radio Paradise MQA as a native music streaming option

Sounds like a separate stream with MQA. In any case, will only affect BlueOS users running RP. You can always stream RP another way.

[Cebolla]

Separate parallel streams, so with the same playlist - one sourced from MQA material; the other from non-MQA, Really?

 

Unlikely. It'll be far easier to source both streams from the same MQA material and just run a bit depth reducing downsampling (where necessary) hi-res MQA mangler to produce the 16bit/44.1kHz 'non-MQA'  stream - similar to what TIDAL already does on its HiFi quality connection (as opposed to its Masters quality connection). Don't be surprised if some MQA-CD tracks start 'appearing' on the 'non-MQA' stream. 

[MikeyFresh]

1 hour ago, Cebolla said:

Separate parallel streams, so with the same playlist - one sourced from MQA material; the other from non-MQA, Really?

 

Unlikely. It'll be far easier to source both streams from the same MQA material and just run a bit depth reducing downsampling (where necessary) hi-res MQA mangler to produce the 16bit/44.1kHz 'non-MQA'  stream - similar to what TIDAL already does on its HiFi quality connection (as opposed to its Masters quality connection). Don't be surprised if some MQA-CD tracks start 'appearing' on the 'non-MQA' stream. 

Definitely thats what I am concerned will happen, seems likely, and when it does, I'll delete their streams entirely which is really too bad. 

 

I've always really liked RP, but once they are aiding and abetting this rip-off scheme, then I bid them adieu.

[KeenObserver]

8 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Radio Paradise MQA Audio Coming Exclusively to BluOS Players

BluOS, Radio Paradise and MQA collaborate to add an MQA audio option to popular global internet radio station catering to serious music listeners PICKERING, ONTARIO, CANADA, MARCH 30, 2021 – Radio Paradise, Lenbrook International and MQA today announced a new hifi internet radio service exclusive to the BluOS platform. Radio Paradise, a listener-supported internet radio station known for its high quality audio streams, is now providing MQA-encoded audio on all four of its mix channels, utilizing high-resolution 24-bit masters where available. Lenbrook International, the owner and developer of the market-leading BluOS high-resolution multi-room platform, has announced that all BluOS devices will receive an update in April 2021 to enable Radio Paradise MQA as a native music streaming option. It will be included in all current and future BluOS Enabled devices from leading audio brands like Bluesound, NAD Electronics, DALI Loudspeakers, Monitor Audio, Roksan, Peachtree and PSB Speakers. The collaboration marks the first time an internet radio station will carry MQA-encoded content. “As music lovers and audiophiles ourselves it was a revelation to hear the performance difference in music when encoded into MQA, even when only 16 bit/44 kHz masters are available,” explained Bill Goldsmith, long-time radio personality and founder of Radio Paradise. “It’s a unique opportunity for us to provide improved audio performance to our BluOS listeners who are very serious about their content quality. The team at BluOS has been 100% committed to delivering high-res audio direct to the listening room and has long supported our work at Radio Paradise. Our shared values for best-in-class audio make this collaboration a totally natural evolution.” “Radio Paradise MQA is the perfect vehicle for the musical curation of Bill and the Radio Paradise team," says Mike Jbara, CEO of MQA. "We are proud to play a part in helping showcase their talent and expertise alongside our long-time collaborators on the BluOS platform team. The world's best sounding entertainment is what customers of BluOS have come to expect following their years of leadership and innovation In high-resolution audio."   “The BluOS ecosystem has the largest selection of MQA enabled players in the world,” states Gord Simmonds, President & CEO of The Lenbrook Group, the company developing the BluOS platform. “We wanted to offer our discerning customers something they cannot get anywhere else. Now our BluOS family of brands and their global customers have an exclusive 24/7 mix of MQA content at their fingertips. To partner with Bill and Radio Paradise and our MQA friends to offer this great sounding music to our customers, for whom high resolution audio and hifi are paramount, is an outstanding alignment of our shared visions.”

 

Another product I'm going to avoid like the plague.

MQA is apparently still pushing hard. MQA and the studios really, really, really want to ram this down the consumers throats. I think their egos have been bruised. They are not going to let the consumer tell them, they are going to tell the consumer what they will get.

[KeenObserver]

Have to wonder if these people that buy into the MQA scheme are being strong-armed into it. Seems like that would be in restraint of free trade. Judging from past history of the studios, I wouldn't put it past them.

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

"Promises was officially released a few days ago so I streamed it on both Qobuz and Tidal, where it’s available on both services as 44.1kHz/24 bit FLAC streams. Firstly, having acclimated to the vinyl, hearing either stream was disappointing, but especially the Qobuz stream. Often (but not always), the Qobuz stream bests the Tidal stream when Tidal isn’t an MQA file but this time the Tidal stream was fuller, sweeter and more expansive, like the vinyl, but still not quite as “wall-to-wall” or enveloping. If “digital is digital”, what happened? Whatever it was, get the vinyl!"

 

More utter nonsense from Stereophile's 75 year old fossils. Qobuz only wins when the Master Quack lossy, distorted special sauce isn't applied. What a hoot.

 

https://www.analogplanet.com/content/floating-points-pharoah-sanders-lso-offer-promises-they-keep

[KeenObserver]

2 hours ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

"Promises was officially released a few days ago so I streamed it on both Qobuz and Tidal, where it’s available on both services as 44.1kHz/24 bit FLAC streams. Firstly, having acclimated to the vinyl, hearing either stream was disappointing, but especially the Qobuz stream. Often (but not always), the Qobuz stream bests the Tidal stream when Tidal isn’t an MQA file but this time the Tidal stream was fuller, sweeter and more expansive, like the vinyl, but still not quite as “wall-to-wall” or enveloping. If “digital is digital”, what happened? Whatever it was, get the vinyl!"

 

More utter nonsense from Stereophile's 75 year old fossils. Qobuz only wins when the Master Quack lossy, distorted special sauce isn't applied. What a hoot.

 

https://www.analogplanet.com/content/floating-points-pharoah-sanders-lso-offer-promises-they-keep

 

I have to wonder what is in it for those publications to be hyping this scheme the way they are. I suppose they are trying to prop up their dignity after being exposed for what they are.

I also have to wonder at the people that are buying this load of BS. Do they really buy this BS? Eventually, most people realize a load of BS is BS. But, apparently, if you keep feeding some people a line of BS, they keep believing the line of BS.

[UkPhil]

10 hours ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

"Promises was officially released a few days ago so I streamed it on both Qobuz and Tidal, where it’s available on both services as 44.1kHz/24 bit FLAC streams. Firstly, having acclimated to the vinyl, hearing either stream was disappointing, but especially the Qobuz stream. Often (but not always), the Qobuz stream bests the Tidal stream when Tidal isn’t an MQA file but this time the Tidal stream was fuller, sweeter and more expansive, like the vinyl, but still not quite as “wall-to-wall” or enveloping. If “digital is digital”, what happened? Whatever it was, get the vinyl!"

 

More utter nonsense from Stereophile's 75 year old fossils. Qobuz only wins when the Master Quack lossy, distorted special sauce isn't applied. What a hoot.

 

https://www.analogplanet.com/content/floating-points-pharoah-sanders-lso-offer-promises-they-keep

My god it’ll be the same source file on both if it hasn’t been “quacked” jeez stop the world I need to get off 

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, UkPhil said:

My god it’ll be the same source file on both if it hasn’t been “quacked” jeez stop the world I need to get off 

Yeah, the pure PCM source versus the same source minus a bunch of data, add in some noise, and mandate leaky filters. 

[R1200CL]

Probably totally wrong tread to ask this objective question:
 

Has Tidal made Redbook available again ?

 

Maybe it’s my music I’m playing, but there isn’t almost none MQA showing up anymore.