MQA is Vaporware

[bambadoo]

Cookie Moreno is a MQA "fangirl". Member of the famous MQA group. 

But then again, she has many strange meanings....

 

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

We can now add Cookie Marenco to the Quack and charlatan list. The fact that a recording engineer who touts offering music at the highest possible recording and mastering quality would partner with MQA is proof positive that she is either desperately selling out or is as gullible as shit.

 

To provide music in a lossy format is my cue to never visit her site again I have bought a few recordings from her (Quilles & Cloud) and never will spend another shekel. 

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

23 minutes ago, bambadoo said:

Cookie Moreno is a MQA "fangirl". Member of the famous MQA group. 

But then again, she has many strange meanings....

 

the fact that Morenco would get in the swamp with an utter douche bag like Veth is all I need to know.

[ARQuint]

7 hours ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

We can now add Cookie Marenco to the Quack and charlatan list. The fact that a recording engineer who touts offering music at the highest possible recording and mastering quality would partner with MQA is proof positive that she is either desperately selling out or is as gullible as shit.

 

To provide music in a lossy format is my cue to never visit her site again I have bought a few recordings from her (Quilles & Cloud) and never will spend another shekel. 

 

Cookie Marenco is a respected engineer and producer with 5 Grammy nominations. She has recorded Brad Mehldau, Ladysmith Black Mambazo, and Mary Chapin Carpenter and uses her real name. It's highly doubtful that "Ishmael Slapowitz" has any qualifications as an audio professional and has exactly one criterion for who is worthy in the field and who isn't. Most, me included, recognize that Slapowitz gets his jollies by riling people up and is here for his entertainment value. But I also feel it doesn't reflect well on AS for an especially conscientious and generous member of our industry like Marenco to be subject to preadolescent name-calling.

 

It also doesn't help the case of more thoughtful critics of MQA.

 

Andy Quint

 

 

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

14 minutes ago, ARQuint said:

 

Cookie Marenco is a respected engineer and producer with 5 Grammy nominations. She has recorded Brad Mehldau, Ladysmith Black Mambazo, and Mary Chapin Carpenter and uses her real name. It's highly doubtful that "Ishmael Slapowitz" has any qualifications as an audio professional and has exactly one criterion for who is worthy in the field and who isn't. Most, me included, recognize that Slapowitz gets his jollies by riling people up and is here for his entertainment value. But I also feel it doesn't reflect well on AS for an especially conscientious and generous member of our industry like Marenco to be subject to preadolescent name-calling.

 

It also doesn't help the case of more thoughtful critics of MQA.

 

Andy Quint

 

 

I don't respect anybody who runs a business catering to audiophiles and decides to knowingly sell a scientifically proven defective product.

 

Enough of your BS. 

 

 

[GregWormald]

I've heard Dr Rod Crawford (designer of some of Linn's great speakers) say he likes it. He has given me some great help in the past. However I can't see a technical reason to want it, and given the drastically mixed reviews, I honestly don't expect to spend the time and cost to do a test.

 

Maybe it'll die before it takes hold. It wouldn't be the first time something possibly good died young.

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, GregWormald said:

Dr Rod Crawford (designer of some of Linn's great speakers)

Linn had great speakers?

 

Only joking. 😁

[Rt66indierock]

11 hours ago, ARQuint said:

 

Cookie Marenco is a respected engineer and producer with 5 Grammy nominations. She has recorded Brad Mehldau, Ladysmith Black Mambazo, and Mary Chapin Carpenter and uses her real name. It's highly doubtful that "Ishmael Slapowitz" has any qualifications as an audio professional and has exactly one criterion for who is worthy in the field and who isn't. Most, me included, recognize that Slapowitz gets his jollies by riling people up and is here for his entertainment value. But I also feel it doesn't reflect well on AS for an especially conscientious and generous member of our industry like Marenco to be subject to preadolescent name-calling.

 

It also doesn't help the case of more thoughtful critics of MQA.

 

Andy Quint

 

 

Andy what about the thoughtless supporters of MQA? And as far as who is an audio professional I stand by my two sentence review of the Okto stereo DAC in Stereophile. COVID hurt my recording activities in 2020. I’m hopeful later this year I can get a new favorite in a studio. 

[lucretius]

33 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Linn had great speakers?

 

Only joking. 😁

 

I note your use of the past tense. 🙂

[The Computer Audiophile]

1 hour ago, Rt66indierock said:

Andy what about the thoughtless supporters of MQA? And as far as who is an audio professional I stand by my two sentence review of the Okto stereo DAC in Stereophile. COVID hurt my recording activities in 2020. I’m hopeful later this year I can get a new favorite in a studio. 

What have you recorded in the past?

[Dr Tone]

The special facebook MQA advertising group is branching out and still spewing disinformation.

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/comparison-of-pcm-and-mqa/149787/277?u=drtone

 

 

 

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

10 minutes ago, Dr Tone said:

The special facebook MQA advertising group is branching out and still spewing disinformation.

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/comparison-of-pcm-and-mqa/149787/277?u=drtone

 

 

 

 

 

Ha! Second and third unfolds. 

[FredericV]

10 hours ago, Dr Tone said:

The special facebook MQA advertising group is branching out and still spewing disinformation.

 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/comparison-of-pcm-and-mqa/149787/277?u=drtone

Why is PV on every forum / blog / FB group which mentions MQA?
Why does he never learn and keep talking about second and third unfolds?

[UkPhil]

2 hours ago, FredericV said:

Why is PV on every forum / blog / FB group which mentions MQA?
Why does he never learn and keep talking about second and third unfolds?

He must never sleep 

[the_bat]

This may have been covered before, but the current statement on approval on a number of MQA enabled products says

 

" This indicates you are playing an MQA Studio file, which has either been approved in the studio by the artist or producer, or has been verified by the copyright owner"

 

In many cases now (e.g. Bob Dylan, Paul Simon) Sony, Warners or Universal Music are the copyright owners. I wonder who in that company is responsible for the verification and what rigorous verification processes they implement. 

[firedog]

22 minutes ago, the_bat said:

This may have been covered before, but the current statement on approval on a number of MQA enabled products says

 

" This indicates you are playing an MQA Studio file, which has either been approved in the studio by the artist or producer, or has been verified by the copyright owner"

 

In many cases now (e.g. Bob Dylan, Paul Simon) Sony, Warners or Universal Music are the copyright owners. I wonder who in that company is responsible for the verification and what rigorous verification processes they implement. 

The copyrights you refer to are music publishing rights. They are related to royalty payments when the song is played publicly or sold. They aren't rights to the songs/music themselves or the production and sales of records, discs, and files for download. So nothing directly to do with MQA.

 

We know from various sources that the "authentication" for MQA can be anyone from a clerk in a tape archive to someone higher up the chain, including producers, engineers and artists.  Clearly for records for which the principals are dead the "artists" aren't approving.

Note Neil Young's successful recent withdrawal of his Tidal "Masters" (MQA) from Tidal as he said he owns the actual masters and the MQA versions had zero to do with him and were done without his knowledge or approval. 

 

 

[the_bat]

Thanks for the clarification.

 

According to copyright..org

 

"The ownership of the sound recording copyright rests with the ‘author’ of the recording. But this is not necessarily a human author in the usual sense of the word. In UK law the author of a sound recording is the ‘producer’, a legal term usually taken to be the record company that paid for the recording to be made".

 

US law may be different.

[Samuel T Cogley]

On 4/2/2021 at 7:34 PM, ARQuint said:

 

Cookie Marenco is a respected engineer and producer with 5 Grammy nominations. She has recorded Brad Mehldau, Ladysmith Black Mambazo, and Mary Chapin Carpenter and uses her real name. It's highly doubtful that "Ishmael Slapowitz" has any qualifications as an audio professional and has exactly one criterion for who is worthy in the field and who isn't. Most, me included, recognize that Slapowitz gets his jollies by riling people up and is here for his entertainment value. But I also feel it doesn't reflect well on AS for an especially conscientious and generous member of our industry like Marenco to be subject to preadolescent name-calling.

 

It also doesn't help the case of more thoughtful critics of MQA.

 

Andy Quint

 

 

 

Any recording professional that puts forth the notion that "DRM sounds great" should be ashamed.  You would be ashamed of your MQA support as well.

[KeenObserver]

1 hour ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

Any recording professional that puts forth the notion that "DRM sounds great" should be ashamed.  You would be ashamed of your MQA support as well.

 

Those publications that shamelessly promote MQA should be ashamed.

And to promote MQA as simply being another choice is just so phony when in truth MQA and the supporting studios want MQA to be the sole distribution method.

Have these people no sense of decency?

These failing publications trying to remain relevant by promoting MQA is just so pathetic.

[lucretius]

4 hours ago, KeenObserver said:

 

Those publications that shamelessly promote MQA should be ashamed.

And to promote MQA as simply being another choice is just so phony when in truth MQA and the supporting studios want MQA to be the sole distribution method.

Have these people no sense of decency?

These failing publications trying to remain relevant by promoting MQA is just so pathetic.

 

I guess it has something to do with throwing shit at the wall and hoping some of it will stick?  But with MQA, one should stand back from the wall to avoid getting one's shoes dirty.

[MikeyFresh]

Bye bye MQA phone:

 

https://www.theverge.com/2021/4/4/22346084/lg-exits-smartphone-business

[Currawong]

21 hours ago, FredericV said:

Why does he never learn and keep talking about second and third unfolds?

 

"I want to believe" factor? He failed to consider that the file Jim was given at Stereophile had not been "folded" at all, but had been processed in whatever other way the MQA group desired. They obviously handed out carefully DSP'ed files to the press, which I don't doubt sounded more impressive than the originals, and, because the "origami" hadn't stripped the frequencies higher than 48k, still had the ADC noise visible.  Unless I'm mistaken, the amount of ADC noise in there would require a 32-bit file to encode, if they wanted to shove those bits underneath the noise floor of a 24-bit file.

 

It's worth noting that the AES paper they keep linking to has a demo file with a much higher noise floor. This makes me wonder if, with those lower-noise-floor files if compression IS necessary to make MQA "work" with them regardless.

[GregWormald]

Unfortunately making money can be the main focus, rather than the music. At that point anything that raises profits is adopted.

[Currawong]

In a chat someone told me that they felt that the MQA versions of music they'd tried sounded better. So, as usual, I asked them for a list of tracks. I tried three -- it was all I needed.

 

Kacey Musgraves - Slow Burn

Jack Johnson - Big Sur

Jack Johnson - Better Together

 

All are available either on Qobuz as 24/96 or as MQA "24/96" (quote marks intentional). MQA was set to unfold in Roon. The set-up is a Soundaware D300REF feeding a Schiit Yggdrasil and going to an ALO Audio Studio Six and Final D8000 headphones. I think my set-up is a bit better than Peter Veth's. 

 

The Qobuz tracks are quite well recorded. Crisp and clear, if not Decca, Chesky, Native DSD or similar-level extraordinary.  I alternately played back the Qobuz and TIDAL MQA versions of the same track a few times. 

 

Consistently, the MQA tracks had a weird "sucked out" sound to them, as if they had been put through a 3D effect plug-in on low settings. The vocals are pushed back, and the effect was actual disorientating, making me feel odd listening to them -- almost dizzy. Returning to the Qobuz version was something of a relief. It was very odd though, but explains why people feel that MQA music (at least what appears to be actual MQA processing, and not the awful batch-murdering of old pop, jazz and classical) is more spacious-sounding.

 

I guess there are many people out there who have not experienced an actual soundstage, or a DAC like a Chord Qutest or better, that can reproduce one properly. If they did, they'd quickly notice how artificial the "spaciousness" of the MQA tracks is. 

[UkPhil]

It seems PV is firing on all cylinders again on the Roon Community Site 

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/comparison-of-pcm-and-mqa/149787/435