MQA is Vaporware

[John Dyson]

6 minutes ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

That is still a major step backwards..MQA not only truncates bits, but adds aliasing and actually worsens "time domain" performance. There is zero benefit, and zero reason to ever accept it.

The problem is that the mastering (or post mastering) is totally damaged on most recordings.

I'd do almost ANYTHING to get rid of the mastering damage -- that mastering damage is a LOT more 'bits' than just '2'.

 

Of course, it would be best to fix the post-mastering processing and avoid MQA.   I am NOT an advocate of MQA.

 

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

1 minute ago, John Dyson said:

The problem is that the mastering (or post mastering) is totally damaged on most recordings.

I'd do almost ANYTHING to get rid of the mastering damage -- that mastering damage is a LOT more 'bits' than just '2'.

 

Of course, it would be best to fix the post-mastering processing and avoid MQA.   I am NOT an advocate of MQA.

 

I agree, but we have to be careful not to paint with too broad a brush concerning mastering.

 

Oh yes, I am clear on your anti-MQA position, I did not mean to imply other wise.😊

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

7 minutes ago, Kal Rubinson said:

Skew it as you wish.

Maybe if MyTek had called it The Copernicus ADC it would sold by like wild fire. 😇

 

 

[lucretius]

1 hour ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

Not sure if it was posted here before, but that Mytek Brooklyn ADC....with "MQA Mastering" died a royal death. It is now a "legacy" product. Oh well. I am sure you can find one for pennies on the dollar now, or in a scrap heap. 😅

 

Not true.  All that happened is that Mytek Audio has severed its relationship with HEM Sp. z.o.o. (the company that was designing and manufacturing most of Mytek's current line-up).  Apparently, HEM Sp. z.o.o. intends to continue manufacturing and selling the recently "discontinued" line-up.  HEM says it will continue to keep the "Mytek" products up-to-date and will publish software updates on www.mytek-europe.com.

 

Here is what both Mytek Audio and HEM Sp. z.o.o. each have to say about the split:

 

https://mytek.audio/news

https://mytek-europe.com/contact/

 

[John Dyson]

Just now, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

I agree, but we have to be careful not to paint with too broad a brush concerning mastering.

 

Oh yes, I am clear on your anti-MQA position, I did not mean to imply other wise.😊

I admit (and agree) that a lot of 'good guys' keep control of their recordings through the entire process.   The sad thing is that the distributors are the 'bosses', and the people doing the mastering are providing a service.   To demand that the distributors do no further 'IP protection' would make the 'bosses' unhappy.

 

Frustratingly, there are probably many, VERY SUPER WELL mastered materials, but we are not allowed to hear the pure results.

 

OTOH -- again, some mastering people CAN maintain some quality control, and that is beautiful for those people who enjoy that selection of recordings.   Good, boutique stuff IS available!!!

 

Are there some normal, non-boutique commercial  recordings that aren't seriously damaged relative to the pure mix?   Sure, we have definitely found some.  I have a skeptic who does find potentially good recordings from time to time, and then I run it through my (admittedly mostly subjective) tests -- but also some objective components, and DO find properly processed recordings.   The first 'tell' is hiss -- it should usually be MUCH less than the consumer stuff that we get.

 

John

 

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

5 minutes ago, lucretius said:

 

Not true.  All that happened is that Mytek Audio has severed its relationship with HEM Sp. z.o.o. (the company that was designing and manufacturing most of Mytek's current line-up).  Apparently, HEM Sp. z.o.o. intends to continue manufacturing and selling the recently "discontinued" line-up.  HEM says it will continue to keep the "Mytek" products up-to-date and will publish software updates on www.mytek-europe.com.

 

Here is what both Mytek Audio and HEM Sp. z.o.o. each have to say about the split:

 

https://mytek.audio/news

https://mytek-europe.com/contact/

 

I'm sorry, what am I missing here? I see no information about anybody continuing to manufacture discontinued products. Forgive me if i passed over it..I saw nothing of the sort...

[lucretius]

1 minute ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

I'm sorry, what am I missing here? I see no information about anybody continuing to manufacture discontinued products. Forgive me if i passed over it..I saw nothing of the sort...

 

You missed this quote from HEM:

 

"HEM wants to reassure all its customers that they can depend on the fast delivery times of all current Mytek products, on the best possible service, on the unrivaled customer support and on the after sales. HEM will continue to keep the Mytek products up to date and will publish software updates on www.mytek-europe.com. All current Mytek products are in stock at the factory in Pruszków, Poland or at the trusted EU, UK and Far East dealers and awaiting your orders."

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

6 minutes ago, lucretius said:

 

You missed this quote from HEM:

 

"HEM wants to reassure all its customers that they can depend on the fast delivery times of all current Mytek products, on the best possible service, on the unrivaled customer support and on the after sales. HEM will continue to keep the Mytek products up to date and will publish software updates on www.mytek-europe.com. All current Mytek products are in stock at the factory in Pruszków, Poland or at the trusted EU, UK and Far East dealers and awaiting your orders."

again, what am I missing. they talk about CURRENT products, not legacy products....

 

when I visit their page and hit the BUY button on the ADC just a graphic of the product comes up. No order mechanism. Of course, I have no doubt they will continue to update the firmware and offer support.

 

on top of that, there are quite a few outdated links re: MQA.

[lucretius]

9 minutes ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

again, what am I missing. they talk about CURRENT products, not legacy products....

 

when I visit their page and hit the BUY button on the ADC just a graphic of the product comes up. No order mechanism.

 

on top of that, there are quite a few outdated links re: MQA.

 

You can see HEM's current products here:  www.mytek-europe.com. These are the products that were "discontinued" by Mytek Audio, obviously because they severed the relationship with HEM.  All new products from Mytek Audio are designed and manufactured elsewhere (i.e. not at HEM).

 

To buy directly from HEM, you need to contact then via e-mail at [email protected] or call +48 22 823 72 38.

 

Here is HEM's regular website:  https://hem-e.com/

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

5 minutes ago, lucretius said:

 

You can see HEM's current products here:  www.mytek-europe.com. These are the products that were "discontinued" by Mytek Audio, obviously because they severed the relationship with HEM.  All new products from Mytek Audio are designed and manufactured elsewhere (i.e. not at HEM).

 

To buy directly from HEM, you need to contact then via e-mail at [email protected] or call +48 22 823 72 38.

 

Here is HEM's regular website:  https://hem-e.com/

I just read MyTek's statement someone posted on GearSlutz. MyTek says they have absolutely no affiliation with HEM and had a "loss of confidence" in their service and quality.

 

Thanks, but no thanks. And there is no doubt it is discontinued. Regardless of HEM still supporting the product.

[lucretius]

5 minutes ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

I just read MyTek's statement someone posted on GearSlutz. MyTek says they have absolutely no affiliation with HEM and had a "loss of confidence" in their service and quality.

 

Thanks, but no thanks. And there is no doubt it is discontinued. Regardless of HEM still supporting the product.

 

HEM designed and built the products.  Mytek Audio simply requested what kind of products that HEM should design and build and Mytek Audio marketed these products.  The relationship between Mytek Audio and HEM did not end amicably.  LOL, it goes beyond service and quality -- I believe that Mytek Audio thinks HEM was steeling its brand.  However, between Mytek Audio and HEM, it's the latter that had the engineering chops.

 

 

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

5 minutes ago, lucretius said:

 

HEM designed and built the products.  Mytek Audio simply requested what kind of products that HEM should design and build and Mytek Audio marketed these products.  The relationship between Mytek Audio and HEM did not end amicably.  LOL, it goes beyond service and quality -- I believe that Mytek Audio thinks HEM was steeling its brand.  However, between Mytek Audio and HEM, it's the latter that had the engineering chops.

 

 

Interesting. Thanks for the back ground info. Personally, this is another reason I would not touch a MyTek product with a ten foot pole. I see them as pretty much marketers, and feature whores. Yes, I might be rough on them due to their embrace of MQA as a marketable feature....guilty! But if they can't even choose their partners, why would I have any confidence in their products? Just my take.

 

But back to original point ..MQA ADCs are nonexistent unicorns, thankfully. I am almost tempted to hunt the MyTek down and send it to Archimago to give us the ugly details.

[lucretius]

15 minutes ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

But back to original point ..MQA ADCs are nonexistent unicorns, thankfully. I am almost tempted to hunt the MyTek down and send it to Archimago to give us the ugly details.

 

Sounds like an idea.  However, I believe Archimago uses only an RME ADI-2 Pro FS for measurements.  (Or perhaps you meant Amir?)

[lucretius]

47 minutes ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

Personally, this is another reason I would not touch a MyTek product with a ten foot pole. I see them as pretty much marketers, and feature whores.

 

With Mytek Audio severing the relationship with HEM, they (Mytek Audio) gave up on supporting their entire line-up and instead promise a new line-up.  This is unprecedented. What company cuts off support for its entire line-up?  But Mytek did keep its golf ball aesthetic, LOL.

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

16 hours ago, lucretius said:

 

Sounds like an idea.  However, I believe Archimago uses only an RME ADI-2 Pro FS for measurements.  (Or perhaps you meant Amir?)

Amir? LOL. No I think we are all done with charlatans and sociopaths.

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

15 hours ago, lucretius said:

 

With Mytek Audio severing the relationship with HEM, they (Mytek Audio) gave up on supporting their entire line-up and instead promise a new line-up.  This is unprecedented. What company cuts off support for its entire line-up?  But Mytek did keep its golf ball aesthetic, LOL.

They will never get a shekel from me, that is for sure.

[Currawong]

On 3/9/2021 at 10:42 AM, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

Either Atkinson has no integrity, or he is obsessed with giving MQA as many mentions as he possibly can before he rides off into the sunset.  Pathetic, and sad. I would not buy a box of paperclips based on his recommendation.

 

While it is fair enough to take issue with some of the things posted on Stereophile in the past, regarding MQA, I think that this is unreasonable, especially given that they altered how they described MQA to be more technically correct after discussion in this thread. Irrespective of anything, there are people who will ask about particular functions of a DAC, including MQA. It was reasonable of him to ask the manufacturer how it is handled and report that. It isn't a statement for or against the format.

[KeenObserver]

It's quiet. Too quiet.

Last time it was this quiet I thought that maybe MQA was dying a quiet death. Then the Tidal situation and Warner trying to ram MQA down the throats of the music consumer.

I have to wonder if the studios backing MQA have the arrogance to believe that they can ram MQA down the throats of the music consumer whether they like it or not.  If such happens, I think the music community, even those that backed MQA, will realize that MQA was a colossal mistake. The HDCD thread makes me think of this.  Where will we be if there is only MQA music and players and people realize what a monstrous mistake MQA is?

[Currawong]

6 hours ago, KeenObserver said:

It's quiet. Too quiet.

 

TIDAL marking everything as MQA, even if it's bit-for-bit identical to the 44.1 music, then suddenly selling themselves to Stripe days after Spotify announces that lossless is coming, could be the writing on the wall. It smacks of desperation.  They can't claim to be doing anything special if most of the music is just a flag and has nothing different about it. They seemed to be having enough trouble as it is convincing people as it is, and they just shot themselves in the foot with their latest move.

[mevdinc]

It's mainly quiet over here because everyone's busy over there at the ASR thread. :)

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

If anything MQA served one purpose...to show how little the Old Guard audio press really thinks of it's readers and audiophiles in general. And it showed that many, but thankfully not all, manufacturers in the industry operate from a position of fear. There are very, very few of them with cutting edge ideas. Followers not leaders.

 

My solution was to stop all purchases from companies that embraced MQA in the audio market.  And I know many others who followed suit. There more than enough to choose from that did not. Hopefully, facts and science will yet again reign supreme.

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

13 hours ago, mevdinc said:

It's mainly quiet over here because everyone's busy over there at the ASR thread. :)

Yes, the virtual equivalent of the foulest excrement...🤑

[The Computer Audiophile]

3 minutes ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

Hopefully, facts and science will yet again reign supreme.

I also hope this is true. I know many companies who hated MQA technically, but felt they had to implement it. I have loads of emails and I wish these people would come out in the open and speak up. 

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

Just now, The Computer Audiophile said:

I also hope this is true. I know many companies who hated MQA technically, but felt they had to implement it. I have loads of emails and I wish these people would come out in the open and speak up. 

Well said. This to my point about operating from a position of fear and weakness. Schiit, Bryston, Benchmark, and loads of other digital manufacturers told MQA to shove it and many of their products are actually on back order. Those who trust in their designs, and rely on engineering had nothing to worry about.

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

On 3/14/2021 at 10:04 PM, Currawong said:

 

While it is fair enough to take issue with some of the things posted on Stereophile in the past, regarding MQA, I think that this is unreasonable, especially given that they altered how they described MQA to be more technically correct after discussion in this thread. Irrespective of anything, there are people who will ask about particular functions of a DAC, including MQA. It was reasonable of him to ask the manufacturer how it is handled and report that. It isn't a statement for or against the format.

With all due respect, I repeat, it could have been summed up in one sentence..."No MQA support"...