MQA is Vaporware

[Currawong]

12 hours ago, firedog said:

The amazing thing about him is he just regurgitates MQA spiel, and then accuses others of not understanding.

 

It's a religious argument, and an expression of ignorance. When you don't understand the underlying science of something, it's easy to be deceived by people who can present something that looks scientifically correct but is actually flawed.  Take the Ever Given, for example. What do you know about how it got stuck? You've probably heard about it being very windy.  There was an article on ft.com which went a little into the complex science behind steering boats through narrow canals and interviewed someone who was researching it. That was a far cry from the superficial writing of most news articles about it.

 

Likewise, because these people don't want to face the reality that they don't understand what is going on in the AES paper, they can't handle actual, factual technical discussion, so they flip between saying "Just listen to it!" when confronted with the technical, or, like PV did, just drop into "You're not an expert" arguments. They forget that the many "experts" in dozens, if not hundreds of audio companies have looked at MQA and rejected it.

[The Computer Audiophile]

14 minutes ago, Currawong said:

 

It's a religious argument, and an expression of ignorance. When you don't understand the underlying science of something, it's easy to be deceived by people who can present something that looks scientifically correct but is actually flawed.  Take the Ever Given, for example. What do you know about how it got stuck? You've probably heard about it being very windy.  There was an article on ft.com which went a little into the complex science behind steering boats through narrow canals and interviewed someone who was researching it. That was a far cry from the superficial writing of most news articles about it.

 

Likewise, because these people don't want to face the reality that they don't understand what is going on in the AES paper, they can't handle actual, factual technical discussion, so they flip between saying "Just listen to it!" when confronted with the technical, or, like PV did, just drop into "You're not an expert" arguments. They forget that the many "experts" in dozens, if not hundreds of audio companies have looked at MQA and rejected it.

P.S. I’ve always thought the Ever Given was sabotaged. Those boats all have auto pilot to keep them where they’re supposed to be. 

[charlesphoto]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

P.S. I’ve always thought the Ever Given was sabotaged. Those boats all have auto pilot to keep them where they’re supposed to be. 

More like some pilot (lets call him Bob) decides they're more clever than autopilot and tries to do it themselves. Failure. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, charlesphoto said:

More like some pilot (lets call him Bob) decides they're more clever than autopilot and tries to do it themselves. Failure. 

Ah Yes. Like the Exxon Valdez. 

[AudioDoctor]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

P.S. I’ve always thought the Ever Given was sabotaged. Those boats all have auto pilot to keep them where they’re supposed to be. 

 

I doubt they use auto pilot in a canal that tight.

 

I haven't really investigated it, but if the engine failed, as I have heard, it makes sense that it would drift/be pushed by the wind. In a canal that narrow, that can never end well.

[The Computer Audiophile]

48 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

I doubt they use auto pilot in a canal that tight.

 

I haven't really investigated it, but if the engine failed, as I have heard, it makes sense that it would drift/be pushed by the wind. In a canal that narrow, that can never end well.

The auto pilot can keep them where they are supposed to be, better than humans in tight canals I believe. 

[AudioDoctor]

14 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

The auto pilot can keep them where they are supposed to be, better than humans in tight canals I believe. 

 I don't want to contribute to more Off Topic conversation here, so unless the captain was listening to MQA tracks from TIDAL, I'll pm you.  ;-)

[Stereo]

3 hours ago, charlesphoto said:

More like some pilot (lets call him Bob) decides they're more clever than autopilot and tries to do it themselves. Failure. 

 

[Currawong]

6 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

P.S. I’ve always thought the Ever Given was sabotaged. Those boats all have auto pilot to keep them where they’re supposed to be. 

 

I'm somewhat glad you suggested this ... conspiracy theory. I've (not surprisingly!) been interacting with friends who are deep into conspiracies, and one of the most telling aspects is their ignorance of the complexities of any form of science.  It's very telling to have access to high-level doctors or scientists who actually know, in detail, about any subject that you see reported on the news. You quickly realise how incredibly ignorant people who put forth conspiracies are, as well as how painfully simplified what you read in the news is. Ignorant people can be educated, unless they simply don't want to be. Then, the best thing to do is use their arguments as an opportunity to educate others.

 

I'm dealing with someone who is equally ignorant of the science around digital sampling theory, who has taken as factual the writings of the MQA group. There seems to be a belief that because what has been put out by them has some kind of scientific basis, that it is correct. Explaining why it has issues takes time, and runs up against common, misleading arguments that have been used before (eg: the ringing around impulse responses being bad).

[firedog]

6 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

P.S. I’ve always thought the Ever Given was sabotaged. Those boats all have auto pilot to keep them where they’re supposed to be. 

Don't think so. Where I live we were in the same storm as the one at the Suez Canal that day. I can assure you the winds were very serious and I'd have to believe they had some effect.
The boats are directed inside the canal by an expert local pilot who's directing the ship's own pilot. I'm pretty sure they don't rely only on auto pilot, as that would make the above setup superfluous.
 

That boat is the max size allowed into the canal and I'd bet it takes only a very small navigation error and the added wind to cause such a situation, as a ship that size gets through only with difficulty, anyway. I'm sort of surprised it doesn't happen more often.

 

 I guess sabotage can't be ruled out, but what's the motive? Who profited? Without evidence, that's just another internet conspiracy "theory".

[manueljenkin]

22 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

This is also MQA spiel. On the phone calls with me, every time Bob would say Mans and Jussi didn’t know what they were talking about, they were using high school engineering. 

I would be happy if I got the opportunity to talk to Bob (I'm also open minded about this topic at present). Any possibility?

[Confused]

10 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

P.S. I’ve always thought the Ever Given was sabotaged. Those boats all have auto pilot to keep them where they’re supposed to be. 

Maybe Bob can find a way to fold these big ships into smaller ships, then losslessly unfold them when they have made it through the canal?

[John Dyson]

2 minutes ago, Confused said:

Maybe Bob can find a way to fold these big ships into smaller ships, then losslessly unfold them when they have made it through the canal?

Well, his unfolding won't really be lossless, but will have lots of crinkles and missing pieces of metal all over the place.  Also,  leakage of contents.  On the other hand, the extra 'crinkles' (damaged high frequencies from no-where good) will make those incompetent to understand measurements very happy to see bigger numbers, mostly in bad places.

[botrytis]

5 hours ago, Currawong said:

 

I'm somewhat glad you suggested this ... conspiracy theory. I've (not surprisingly!) been interacting with friends who are deep into conspiracies, and one of the most telling aspects is their ignorance of the complexities of any form of science.  It's very telling to have access to high-level doctors or scientists who actually know, in detail, about any subject that you see reported on the news. You quickly realise how incredibly ignorant people who put forth conspiracies are, as well as how painfully simplified what you read in the news is. Ignorant people can be educated, unless they simply don't want to be. Then, the best thing to do is use their arguments as an opportunity to educate others.

 

I'm dealing with someone who is equally ignorant of the science around digital sampling theory, who has taken as factual the writings of the MQA group. There seems to be a belief that because what has been put out by them has some kind of scientific basis, that it is correct. Explaining why it has issues takes time, and runs up against common, misleading arguments that have been used before (eg: the ringing around impulse responses being bad).

 

Well, like anti-vaxxers - once the info is out on the internet, it can never be erased.

[Cebolla]

On 4/2/2021 at 1:09 AM, Currawong said:

 

I'll be happy if they stream 24/96.  I understand that it's a difficult situation for Bill to keep RP running, given that he relies on donations. That means getting RP more well known. Doing so through a manufacturer makes sense. Sadly that has to involve MQA.

 

Looks like you/we are going to be happy:

https://radioparadise.com/community/forum/post/3901944

Quote

When we're ready to launch a hi-res stream, it will be available as straight FLAC as well as MQA. 

Due to the nature of how we deliver our audio, it will never be a mix of different sample rates & bit depths. Everything needs to be standardized to the same rate, probably 24/96. Even if the only master we have is 16/44.1 it will be upsampled to 24/96 and will read out as such on your DAC. 

Because we mix songs together into a continuous flow, there is absolutely no way around that. 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

I interviewed Bill Tuesday afternoon for a podcast episode coming out in a few weeks. He is a genuinely nice guy who loves music and provides a fantastic service. I hope everyone supports him regardless of the fact there is a Radio Paradise MQA stream on BlueOS. 

[DuckToller]

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I interviewed Bill Tuesday afternoon for a podcast episode coming out in a few weeks. He is a genuinely nice guy who loves music and provides a fantastic service. I hope everyone supports him regardless of the fact there is a Radio Paradise MQA stream on BlueOS. 

Perhaps Bill Tuesday will be someone who could provide meaningful data once about the usage of mqa vs. FLAC for his service.

Otoh, he may have signed an NDA with them as well ...

[botrytis]

More than likely the NDA is not enforceable either. 

[bambadoo]

New MQA kid on the block. THX this time

https://www.thx.com/onyx

 

 

 

876 pages here and we are all wrong. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

21 minutes ago, bambadoo said:

New MQA kid on the block. THX this time

https://www.thx.com/onyx

 

 

 

876 pages here and we are all wrong. 

 

Such a joke. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Wow, I didn't know THX had fallen this far -> THX "is now owned by the prolific gaming peripherals company, Razer."

[KeenObserver]

29 minutes ago, bambadoo said:

New MQA kid on the block. THX this time

https://www.thx.com/onyx

 

 

 

876 pages here and we are all wrong. 

 

Shows what value you can put on a THX endorsement!

[FredericV]

45 minutes ago, bambadoo said:

New MQA kid on the block. THX this time

https://www.thx.com/onyx

 

 

 

876 pages here and we are all wrong. 

This simplistic color scheme is amusing.

I have a fully treated 11.2 home cinema room and I am often amazed how good music in soundtracks sounds, which is "only" 48 kHz .....
Remember that THX processing in pre-pro's usually runs on decoded multichannel 24/48 content.

Why did digital cinema not jump to 24/96 or higher? Probably because it does not matter.

The only blu-ray movie in 24/96 I know is Samsara:
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Samsara-Blu-ray/51257/

There is some music also, but these disks are rare compared to the total number of blu-ray disks:
https://www.naxos.com/blu-ray_audio.asp


 

Probably as rare as MQA-CD, but at least the 24/88.2 and 24/96 blu-rays do have the channel capacity for this, while MQA-CD is not even redbook.

[JoeWhip]

Back in the day of the dawn of HD DVD and Blu-Ray when I did on line reviews of them, I seem to recall that the audio in commercial movies was recorded, mixed and rendered at 24/48.

[Kal Rubinson]

1 hour ago, FredericV said:

There is some music also, but these disks are rare compared to the total number of blu-ray disks:
https://www.naxos.com/blu-ray_audio.asp

There are other sources of 24/96 (or 24/192) BluRayAudio.  2L is a substantial source but there are others.