Article: New Schiit Yggdrasil Blind Listening Comparison

[feelingears]

Having recently compared several DACs from Chord, Denafrips, and others at home over several weeks vs. my Yggy A2 via S/PDIF coax, I applaud the subjective comments, used in a direct comparative fashion, such as...

 

• just sounded congested to me, as if the details were lost
• Instruments seemed to pop out unnaturally
• vocal was good and the drums had good air / space around them
• extra crispy high frequencies, and harsh hammer strikes
• the steel drum was really clear at low volume and had great separation between mallet strikes
• "Yes." The sound put me at ease, relaxed me, and was absolutely right.

 

In my journey of sound, comparative listening lends tremendous weight to these concepts that sadly, neither words nor measurements can fully convey. I wish it weren't so, but 'tis so. And my listening concluded that these DACs are all excellent, all offering "flavors" as Stoddard writes in his ongoing marketing masterclass on Head-fi.org. Comments such as Chris' above helped me determine which was the right flavor, for me, for my system. My friend prefers his DAC, his system. Anyone surprised?  

 

When I play the same Keith Johnson Nojima Liszt piano track I've been listening to since it came out, among many other tracks, all the characteristics embodied in the quotes above are manifestly evident. And I've learned that for me, if I have to really try to hear it, it's probably not there. But if it's effortless, and often these things are even when trying to hear the forest over the trees, then I go with my impressions. And especially if it repeats similarly on other days, other listening sessions, other moods.

 

A tumultuous cascade of arpeggios will blow your mind if you can hear all the notes fall as they're played–solo piano, massed strings, etc. A capable DAC in a capable system in the right room makes hearing complex passages effortless, every time. My definition of nirvana. 

 

"Yes. The sound put me at ease, relaxed me, and was absolutely right."

 

YMWV - Your mileage will vary

 

[Rexp]

15 hours ago, JoeWhip said:

We all have different processors between our ears. Come on man!

Would u say 3 Michelin star French cuisine tastes better than  no Michelin star French cuisine? 

[AudioDoctor]

37 minutes ago, Rexp said:

Would u say 3 Michelin star French cuisine tastes better than  no Michelin star French cuisine? 

 

Do you know the process of acquiring a Michelin star? I have read stories about it not always being above board...

 

That said, I can see a scenario where a non Michelin star restaurant or chef could make food just as good or better. I have a friend who travels to attend cooking classes in Italy and France regularly, as well as here in town and the US. She is an amazing cook. I would go to her house before I would go to almost any restaurant confident in the knowledge that what I will eat will be outstanding. She has no Michelin stars.

[Rexp]

5 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said:

 

Do you know the process of acquiring a Michelin star? I have read stories about it not always being above board...

 

That said, I can see a scenario where a non Michelin star restaurant or chef could make food just as good or better. I have a friend who travels to attend cooking classes in Italy and France regularly, as well as here in town and the US. She is an amazing cook. I would go to her house before I would go to almost any restaurant confident in the knowledge that what I will eat will be outstanding. She has no Michelin stars.

I find I agree with the Michelin judges neally all the time. These judges are connoisseurs who have superior tasting skills to Joe Average. Its the same with audio, some have superior listening skills. 

[AudioDoctor]

3 minutes ago, Rexp said:

I find I agree with the Michelin judges neally all the time. These judges are connoisseurs who have superior tasting skills to Joe Average. Its the same with audio, some have superior listening skills. 

 

I don't doubt your experience at all. If I can find that story again I will link it for you.

[firedog]

3 hours ago, Rexp said:

Would u say 3 Michelin star French cuisine tastes better than  no Michelin star French cuisine? 

Impossible to make a general statement like that, but of course it's possible in some instances.

Also, the stars aren't awarded solely on the basis of taste.

[JoeWhip]

I have been fortunate enough to have dined at 3 star Michelin restaurants, although I prefer ones in Rome to France. Rather than comparing 3 star to no star, I would compare different entres at the same place. As an example, I would always pick beef over fish. A matter of taste or flavors if you will. Don’t forget that part of the experience at a Michelin restaurant is how the courses are presented. Btw, some of the best meals I have had around the world were at non starred restaurants although almost all of the Michelin experiences were superb.

[PeterG]

These Michelin star critiques are kind of nit picky to the extent of missing the point, in a way similar to others that challenge our ability to rank art.  No doubt that stars are awarded for more that food's taste alone.  No doubt that each of us could find a chef a zero stars that we would prefer to a starred restaurant.

 

But if any one of us who enjoyed fine dining visited 10 starred places and 10 randomly chosen other restaurants at similar price points, and then ranked them all, it's a good bet that the top 5 or 10 would be disproportionately starred.

 

Rankings may not be perfect, but that does not mean they do not exist at all

[FIndingit]

In three starred restaurants you may not always agree with the taste of the chef but you can never deny their genius. Having dined in many, this is my view. 

[gebeege1]

Ok Chris, Yggy LIM or Terminator II? :-)

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

12 minutes ago, gebeege1 said:

Ok Chris, Yggy LIM or Terminator II? :-)

 

Very different animals :~)

[57gold]

Over decades have been lucky to dine a starred Michelin places.  FWIW, the difference I have observed in food quality/preparation between 2 and 3 stars is not very distinct.  The third star seems to be awarded based upon quality/ambiance of the venue, service level, quality of china and glassware, depth of wine cellar...all playing a role in the quality of the experience, but not what's on the plate.  

 

As of late, when traveling abroad, we have decided to focus on the 1 star places, particularly newly awarded ones, and those that focus on very regional cuisine.  If in Italy or Spain, it kind of makes no sense to be eating dishes with Asian influences or Frenched out Italian or Spanish food, when real Italian and Spanish foods well prepared are amazing.  Many of the 2 and 3 star places trend towards "international" food or overworked dishes that look like art on the plate but to me do not deliver.  An example, Alinea in Chicago; my son and a foodie friend at end of the tasting menu at this 3 star restaurant took a walk back to our hotel and when I asked my son for his take on the experience, he said it was "cool", the I asked him if he returned "which dish would he order again?" The answer was "none".  I felt the same way...all contrived, over thought out dishes, short on flavor.  My foodie buddy said he was thinking about getting a slice or a burger after that meal, because he felt unsatisfied.

 

Loved my Theta Gen Va for years.  Still do not understand why the guys who invented the DAC Pre do not produce a DAC with a variable attenuator when it makes so much sense in a digital audio world.  So I'll sit it out until they do.

 

[audiobomber]

Just now, 57gold said:

Loved my Theta Gen Va for years.  Still do not understand why the guys who invented the DAC Pre do not produce a DAC with a variable attenuator when it makes so much sense in a digital audio world.  So I'll sit it out until they do.

 

Yes, the lack of preamp capability is the reason the Yggdrasil was dropped from consideration when I was shopping last year. (Nevertheless, I'm very happy with my exaSound E32).

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, 57gold said:

Still do not understand why the guys who invented the DAC Pre do not produce a DAC with a variable attenuator when it makes so much sense in a digital audio world.

I’ve asked so many times!

[R1200CL]

2 hours ago, 57gold said:

Loved my Theta Gen Va for years.  Still do not understand why the guys who invented the DAC Pre do not produce a DAC with a variable attenuator when it makes so much sense in a digital audio world.

Isn’t Theta Generation VIII exactly that ?

https://www.stereophile.com/digitalprocessors/204theta/index.html

I guess you know who that guy was, that invented the Theta DAC’s ?

 

If anyone has compared the Theta G8 S3 with any other modern DAC, I like to hear.

 

[57gold]

No, the DS Pre was introduced in 1988 by Theta, the first DAC with a built in preamp.

 

The Schitt guys were on that team.  

 

Link to photo below.

 

https://images.hifido.co.jp/06/832/83276/a.jpg

 

 

[skikirkwood]

On 9/9/2021 at 5:34 AM, manisandher said:

Hats off to Schiit for doing this. But if they'd have included one of their cheaper non-multibit DACs, that really would have been something.

 

Mani.

 

I agree. I have two Schiit Modi's (Modi 3 + multi-bit) and their Freya pre-amp. I also just got a Topping D10s and have an Allo Boss 2 on one of my Raspberry Pi's. Would love to know if I could hear a significant improvement in my main sound system with one of these new Yggy's, but I don't want to spend the time and possible expense of a restocking fee to find out.

[PeterG]

On 9/9/2021 at 8:34 AM, manisandher said:

Hats off to Schiit for doing this. But if they'd have included one of their cheaper non-multibit DACs, that really would have been something.

 

Mani.

I have a Bifrost on a second system.  It's a good DAC for the money, but the Yggy crushes it.  They aren't really comparable products

[PeterG]

1 hour ago, skikirkwood said:

Would love to know if I could hear a significant improvement in my main sound system with one of these new Yggy's, but I don't want to spend the time and possible expense of a restocking fee to find out.

Agreed.  I readily upgraded to the Gen 2 for about the same price as this swap, but they pushed that as an unambiguous improvement.  Plus, I am the kind of guy they are warning not to try the board swap at home, haha

[skikirkwood]

7 minutes ago, PeterG said:

I have a Bifrost on a second system.  It's a good DAC for the money, but the Yggy crushes it.  They aren't really comparable products

 

I am planning on driving down the California coast from San Francisco to L.A. next month. If I do, I will most certainly stop at the Schiitr and do some comparative listening!

[Phil C]

Thanks Chris for your quick turnaround review, I always value your opinion. Yggdrasil (current model) is on my DAC purchase short list, so your comparison of it to the two new models could not have come at a better time. And kudos to the Schiiters for setting up a quality double blind test.  

[baldr]

Hey there – just a couple of comments. Can’t resist it.

The boards were all made with my best efforts. None were gimped or boosted. It was an exercise in making a better Yggy. The DACs were initially picked for an apparently better attribute (better specs below minus 100db, loooooooooooow INL and DNL). Even after I found out the prevalent irrelevance of specs to sound like it is in the wild, the surviving DACs to all have “good” specs for those who listen with their eyes distracted with graphs.

I realize that I cannot please all – the variety of boards offer options. I build gear to recreate a musical experience which is a major source of near spiritual pleasure/emotion in my life. I have heard everyone from Joplin to Hendrix to Mahler to Wagner live in multiple venues. I do this because I fucking love it. I am not an evangelist – this is not the only way. Many can be happy with a Modi or what my many competitors build. I sell what sounds good to me, even if it a hundred bucks.

I do have a creed; my orthodoxy is multibit for best audio pleasure. So much so that I almost believe my worst multibit is better than the best delta sigma. Therefore, I am now working on better software based delta sigma DACs in an attempt to prove myself wrong. We’ll see what happens - I still have a lot to do.

Meanwhile, I am still skeptical of measurements below about minus 70db or so. I can’t believe in mosquito farts’ audibility in the context of jet engines. Seems like a hand job to me. Seems to me that common sense trumps bad science.

I’ll sign off with a word of appreciation to all those who support this industry – I’d be hungry without it.

[Stin]

49 minutes ago, baldr said:

The boards were all made with my best efforts. None were gimped or boosted. It was an exercise in making a better Yggy. 

Really appreciate your comment as well as all of your contributions, Mike!

 

I placed an order for the LiM, and can't wait for it to arrive. Tho, I'm curious if you think there's more untapped potential to make the MiL chip truly sing through firmware updates given it's a newer chip design?

 

And it'd be super interesting to hear your thoughts on why you think it may be the case that the LiM ends up being your preferred choice?

 

Take care of yourself!

[R1200CL]

2 hours ago, baldr said:

I realize that I cannot please all – the variety of boards offer options.

Is a RJ45 or a SPF with NAA and/or RAAT support a future possibility, and if not, why ?

 

 

[firedog]

20 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

Is a RJ45 or a SPF with NAA and/or RAAT support a future possibility, and if not, why ?

 

 

My guess: no. Schiit doesn't seem interested in doing any software support - especially if it involves outsiders. Smart approach, especially for a small company.