audiobomber Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 45 minutes ago, PeterG said: Chris's original review on the Yggy (best DAC unless you can spend 10X) Really? That would be a silly thing for anyone to say, present company included. Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. Crown XLi 1500 powering AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. Link to comment
PeterG Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 23 minutes ago, hopkins said: I don't think you understand my point, and your example is not relevant here. I find Schitt's approach suspect, and a bit of a scam, to be honest. I expect a DAC manufacturer committing to offering the best product at a given price point. But whatever. I do not think it's a scam--they are not scam-type guys. Pretty much the opposite. But I take your point in general. If they had a traditional marketing department, the guys there would be going bonkers because it is kind of confusing to have 3 to choose from without an apparent hierarchy Link to comment
audiobomber Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 12 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said: Not really, they have 2 great sounding options and 1 for the people over at Audio Science Review... ;-) I don't know about that. Jason and one of the others present preferred the MiL, no? From the sonic descriptions, I suspect I might too. I tend to go for highly resolving, and accommodate with complementary cables. How something sounds in my system does not define how it will sound in others'. Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. Crown XLi 1500 powering AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, audiobomber said: I don't know about that. Jason and one of the others present preferred the MiL, no? From the sonic descriptions, I suspect I might too. I tend to go for highly resolving, and accommodate with complementary cables. How something sounds in my system does not define how it will sound in others'. Not sure, I read the article late last night and must have missed the part about others preferences. I'll re-read it. I was, as I am positive you are aware, just trying to be funny. No electron left behind. Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted September 9, 2021 Author Share Posted September 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, audiobomber said: I don't know about that. Jason and one of the others present preferred the MiL, no? From the sonic descriptions, I suspect I might too. I tend to go for highly resolving, and accommodate with complementary cables. How something sounds in my system does not define how it will sound in others'. In my opinion, LiM is the most resolving. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 5 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: In my opinion, LiM is the most resolving. I just re-read the article. I noticed you mentioned the OG has great tone and I sat back, closed my eyes, and listened as it is playing right now through the McIntosh. Yes, tone, that's what I love about this DAC. I prefer 24/192 through it to high rate DSD through the DA2 in the McIntosh. No electron left behind. Link to comment
Iving Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 Creative marketing, and gearing to build/sell as Demand starts to queue is not equal to scam. Good luck to them. I think they were taking a bit of a risk - the downside possibility that people who are technically thick or risk-averse might experience distress making a decision (not kidding) and lose confidence in the company ... vs, the upside of getting everyone to talk about the launch - er - like this. Link to comment
audiobomber Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 46 minutes ago, AudioDoctor said: Not sure, I read the article late last night and must have missed the part about others preferences. I'll re-read it. There were two other articles linked earlier in this Comments section. Main System: QNAP TS-451+ NAS > Silent Angel Bonn N8 > Sonore opticalModule Deluxe v2 > Corning SMF with Finisar FTLF1318P3BTL SFPs > Uptone EtherREGEN > exaSound PlayPoint and e32 Mk-II DAC > Meitner MTR-101 Plus monoblocks > Bamberg S5-MTM sealed standmount speakers. Crown XLi 1500 powering AV123 Rocket UFW10 stereo subwoofers Upgraded power on all switches, renderer and DAC. Link to comment
Popular Post Superdad Posted September 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 9, 2021 1 hour ago, hopkins said: Options are great as long as more expensive equates greater value. Here they are saying: we provide different DACs at different price points but we are not going to tell you which is better. That's just stupid... IMO. That being said, the review is interesting, but I would be very confused as a prospective Schitt customer. What folks seem to be overlooking here is that DAC chip cost and availability varies greatly. As a direct-to-consumer manufacturer--with a ton of stuff packed into the big Yggy box--Schiit prices their products VERY closely. Let's take a quick look: The TI DAC8812--which the LIM version uses 4 of per Yggy--costs (assuming the better spec'd 'C' version) is $12.45 each (at 1K/pcs.) direct from T.I. So that's $49.80. The TI DAC100001--which the MIL version uses 4 of per Yggy--costs $37.28 each (again, assuming 1K pricing direct from T.I.). That's $149.12. So that's $100 more and accounts for the $150 retail price differential. Frankly it's surprising that it's only a $150 bump as even the most lean direct-sale manufacturer (like myself) will at least double parts cost. Then there is the original AD5791 version of the Yggy, the "OG." That part is now completely unavailable anywhere, and when it was it ran from $61 to $100+ per piece(!)--again at 1K/pc. pricing. I suspect that Schiit had made some big buys of that part over the past few years and those are what are being used in the OG version. I bet when their supply is gone that model will go away. We are in the midst of a worldwide chip shortage--owing to a wide range of factors (geopolitical, weather catastrophes, pandemic bust/boom cycle, limited fab line capacity)--and this is a VERY challenging time to design and produce sophisticated electronic components. Especially for small manufacturers who have near-zero leverage with the big chip companies. An example is our EtherREGEN: There are a bunch of specialized, non-substitutable parts on the board, and while I was wise enough earlier in the year to make large forward-buys of a number of the often-short-supply items (to the tune of $80K+) for future runs, there is one tiny little 3mm square clock-buffer we use (4 per board) that is nowhere to be found and I have zero stock. Our back-order with Mouser--placed months ago--keeps moving the estimate shipping date out. Started at January 2022, now it April! Normally we pay about $1.68 each for them and buy 1,000 at a time to do a run of 250 boards. Last night I was begging a Hong Kong spot-market source to find us some. If I am lucky they will come back with some at $15 or $20 each--ouch! [Though that would be nothing compared to the $259 each quoted for the normally $7.50 small Intel/Altera FPGA used on the UltraCap LPS-1.2. That forced us to discontinue the LPS-1.2. Good luck to anyone designing with Intel/Altera FPGAs as there is nearly no stock in the world up and down their whole product line!] Sorry. End of rant. It is just that there are many hidden factors which go into development and production of an audio component. And most consumers are naturally not aware of such considerations. pas, firedog, feelingears and 7 others 2 3 5 UpTone Audio LLC Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 58 minutes ago, PeterG said: I do not think it's a scam--they are not scam-type guys. Pretty much the opposite. But I take your point in general. If they had a traditional marketing department, the guys there would be going bonkers because it is kind of confusing to have 3 to choose from without an apparent hierarchy For those who read this article, and follow Chris' opinion, it's all good as the best option is the cheapest ones. For others I do not see how they could make a choice. Not my problem anyway. Link to comment
firedog Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 Schiit has done similar things before - build multiple versions of a product. Give people choice. Then drop some units. My guess is that they will drop one of the models after a few months if it doesn't sell well. Probably - the More is Less. That will leave them with 2 "high end" DACs with a significantly different price point. That will be less confusing to consumers. And as Superdad mentioned, the chip shortage could dictate what models they make and sell. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: Better is a subjective term. You seem to be advocating for the old school HiFi approach discussed in Jason's post about the new Yggys. P. S. Better is only subjective when it's not really "better" but different. opus101 1 Link to comment
Popular Post AudioDoctor Posted September 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 9, 2021 I want to make my own choice!!!!! DAC maker gives choices... How dare they not make one DAC that's the BEST! Summed up. Superdad and The Computer Audiophile 1 1 No electron left behind. Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted September 9, 2021 Author Share Posted September 9, 2021 23 minutes ago, hopkins said: P. S. Better is only subjective when it's not really "better" but different. We speak different languages. I think LiM is better. Jason Stoddard thinks MiL is better. 100% subjective. Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Qhwoeprktiyns Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said: We speak different languages. I think LiM is better. Jason Stoddard thinks MiL is better. 100% subjective. I'd conclude that neither product is very accurate! Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted September 9, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 9, 2021 23 minutes ago, hopkins said: I'd conclude that neither product is very accurate! I conclude we use two very different schools of logic. JTS, austinpop and Josh Mound 2 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
Popular Post JoeWhip Posted September 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 9, 2021 My lord Hopkins, there is no one perfect anything. This entire hobby is about subjective opinions. It would be like how could company x make another flavor of ice cream when as far as I am concerned, the one they made before is perfect. Schiit offers choices for the Yggy. I am sure they realized that the DAC chip for the Yggy would become impossible to get so they had to make alternative arrangements. Kudos to them for forward thinking. I look at the three choices like tube rolling. I am not into tubes but have no issues with those that are, even if I can’t fathom all the effort involved with tube rolling. Choices are good. I just don’t see how anyone can spin this into a negative. Qhwoeprktiyns, econaut, The Computer Audiophile and 1 other 2 1 1 Link to comment
Popular Post PeterG Posted September 9, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 9, 2021 1 hour ago, Superdad said: Then there is the original AD5791 version of the Yggy, the "OG." That part is now completely unavailable anywhere, and when it was it ran from $61 to $100+ per piece(!)--again at 1K/pc. pricing. I suspect that Schiit had made some big buys of that part over the past few years and those are what are being used in the OG version. I bet when their supply is gone that model will go away. THANKS! This explains--from a knowledgeable expert, not some hack at home (like me)--the whole thing. This is not a long term strategic plan to offer three flavors. The Schiits realize the OG's days are numbered (it's probably sold more than they hoped), and they're smart, so they do not want to be beholden to one chip set again. They are positioning themselves to maintain the marque. We are now in a transition period with 3 excellent mid priced DACs. We'll be down to one or two as the long term plan. R1200CL and The Computer Audiophile 2 Link to comment
AudioDoctor Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 I think this is a great idea from Schiit. They know that not everyone listens the same, or hears the same, or has the same system, or wants the same thing, so they give people choices. It even costs LESS money! If you agree that this is all subjective, then you have to agree that 3 different DAC choices is good and may appeal to 3 different type of people. My ears were perked up when Chris mentioned the tone of the OG. That's one of my favorite things about it and considering the descriptions of the other two it would require some listening on my own, in my system, to decide if I wanted to change. Notice, I did not say upgrade... No electron left behind. Link to comment
Popular Post The Computer Audiophile Posted September 9, 2021 Author Popular Post Share Posted September 9, 2021 I talked to Schiit this afternoon. I asked for the board(s) to be sent so I could just do the upgrade myself. I’ll have the OG board here if I want to switch back for testing. AudioDoctor and R1200CL 1 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
fas42 Posted September 9, 2021 Share Posted September 9, 2021 It's quite obvious, to me, from Chris's description that the LiM is the most accurate, by far, when used in that particular system. The signature of what you hear should be set by what's on the recording, rather than by a particular component in the chain - unless, of course, your interest is in editoralising, using the rig. Qhwoeprktiyns 1 Link to comment
Gavin1977 Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 Too much choice for my liking - they should have just taken one “prototype” forward for production. Link to comment
Rexp Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 8 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said: We speak different languages. I think LiM is better. Jason Stoddard thinks MiL is better. 100% subjective. Or one of you hears better than the other. Link to comment
Popular Post JoeWhip Posted September 10, 2021 Popular Post Share Posted September 10, 2021 We all have different processors between our ears. Come on man! R1200CL and The Computer Audiophile 1 1 Link to comment
mr_bill Posted September 10, 2021 Share Posted September 10, 2021 Maybe this plan will turn out like they did with the Freya Preamps thunderdome and after a while they will just the least popular selling options (models) of Yggy Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now