Building a DIY Music Server

[vhs]

14 minutes ago, prinz said:

Nice to be back and I am glad that this pc audio path developed in such a positive way.

Totally agree...Prinz

 

 

[vhs]

1 hour ago, Topk said:

gets audio PC closer to an analogue, fluid, full and natural sound

This is my goal too....Topk

[ASRMichael]

1 hour ago, Topk said:

I posted this. A few comments on what happened since:

- if you have a big budget and you can find inventory, the new AMD 5 series is likely even better than the 3 series 
- I’m now running my 3950x at a locked speed of 4ghz (technically, it is overclocked) and locked voltage at around 1.2V. 

- stock HDplex heatsink but Kryonaut thermal paste everywhere 

- 2.8A consumption on Keces P8 single rail

- CPU temperature is 48 degrees. Playing music right now (no upsampling)...

- I do recommend an acrylic lid with holes and/or the fans discussed above or other strategies to keep heat as low as possible

- I do recommend a LPS with strong amperage at the very least 8A and higher amperage is better (I can explain in more details why in PM if you want, happy to help)

You’ve just reminded me above the acrylic lid! Should be here on Friday. I totally forgot about it until I seen your post. 👍

[prinz]

41 minutes ago, Topk said:

Same experience here. There’s a constant battle for me against a cold and sterile sound. Any component that brings any of this, I do not include in my chain. And I didn’t want to say that publicly yet... but let’s say for now that I also use Pink Faun and I find it musical. But that’s only one piece of the puzzle. Again, personal taste, system synergy etc. I have Harbeth speakers so that says already quite a lot about my type of sound.

 

 

I also listen on Harbeth although mine are tuned to sound slightly as studio monitor

[Tatomek7]

2 hours ago, prinz said:

is that Taiko ATX already available? If not, then when and where it can be purchased?

I’m not sure, if still active pre order form 

https://forms.office.com/Pages/ResponsePage.aspx?id=wAyHaKEU5EWxi4f_4gJE6LY6WJsC4qJJgufOWga3mOJUNlZSMDhBOEs5NVBVUDFKRENINlQzOVlZOCQlQCN0PWcu

 

In coming days there should be info from Taiko on possible deliveries. 

 

[seeteeyou]

On 4/15/2021 at 2:04 AM, Nenon said:

- A Chord DAVE DAC powered by DC4 using offline upsampled files with a program called PGGB. BTW, I can't stand the stock DAVE DAC.

 

Yay, @Zaphod Beeblebrox just announced that the embargo was lifted

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/ca/reviews/reality-quest-power-and-digital-audio-with-the-sean-jacobs-dc4-and-sound-application-pgi-tt-7-part-2-of-2-r975/

On 1/21/2021 at 12:26 AM, ray-dude said:

For this review, all these tracks were off-line upsampled (using a custom software package currently in private beta) to 16fs (705/765kHz, 32 bit) to match the input pipeline of the Chord DAVE. The custom upsampling pipeline is optimized to maximize time domain accuracy in reconstruction, and minimize noise in the audio band. The result is an exquisite and natural holographic soundstage with remarkable timing accuracy, all of which is an excellent test of what a Chord DAVE is able to deliver at its best.

 

• Main site: www.remastero.com
• PGGB: www.remastero.com/pggb.html
• FAQ: www.remastero.com/faq.html
• Guide: www.remastero.com/guide.html
• Onboarding: www.remastero.com/onboarding.html

[ray-dude]

VERY excited this project is finally public.  Over 6+ months of helping tune these filters, the progress has been remarkable, and the results extraordinary.  We're really approaching some fundamental limits here on digital processing, and it has been humbling to hear what was always there in digital content, just waiting to be revealed.

 

Well done @Zaphod Beeblebrox!

 

(Disclaimer: although I'm delighted to have been helping on the project since basically day one, I have no financial interest in the project, I paid full price for my license, etc.)

 

EDIT: to not derail this topic, I started a new one for PGGB:

 

 

 

 

[ASRMichael]

18 minutes ago, ray-dude said:

VERY excited this project is finally public.  Over 6+ months of helping tune these filters, the progress has been remarkable, and the results extraordinary.  We're really approaching some fundamental limits here on digital processing, and it has been humbling to hear what was always there in digital content, just waiting to be revealed.

 

Well done @Zaphod Beeblebrox!

 

(Disclaimer: although I'm delighted to have been helping on the project since basically day one, I have no financial interest in the project, I paid full price for my license, etc.)

Is this effectively another HQPlayer? What are the benefits? 

[ted_b]

14 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

Is this effectively another HQPlayer? What are the benefits? 

It is offline and PCM result only, so DSD files will not be upsampled, only converted to PCM.  The offline process means that your cpu, during playback, will have less heavy lifting (all that is done during offline resampling)...and therefore you may well be able to play very high (i.e 32fs) PCM with much less effort.  The downside: lots more storage needs.  🙂

 

I will let the PGGB beta guys talk about the filter/dither choices, etc. 

Edit: I see there is another thread so discuss over there. 

[Marcin_gps]

On 4/15/2021 at 6:03 PM, Nenon said:

While I am always interested in those technical discussions, can we move this discussion to another thread please?

The last few pages here have been overwhelmed with the OPTIMO and why it's better than this and that.

 

The Sean Jacobs DC4 blows away the OPTIMO 3 DUO in every aspect (confirmed by me and several users), but I never publicly said that, because I find it inappropriate. Every power supply I have heard that uses LT3045 regulators has the same sound signature, and I don't like that sound signature. They have amazing specs but don't sound good. I don't go to other people's threads to keep telling them all that. @Marcin_gps - you should not do that either. 

 

Let's have people try the different products and decide for themselves. I would like to go back on topic and discuss DIY here. 

 

@Nenon Jay from audiobacon.net has finished his review of OPTIMO 3 DUO today with a comparison to Paul Hynes SR7 (I already know the outcome). I kindly asked him to postpone the publication and extend the review with a comparison to Sean Jacobs DC4 - you will hear from him soon regarding a review sample of the DC4. Are you OK to put it up against the OPTIMO 3 DUO? 

 

[ray-dude]

8 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

Are you OK to put it up against the OPTIMO 3 DUO? 

 

FWIW, when I wanted to do a review of the DC4, I approached Sean Jacobs and Sean was very supportive. Perhaps suggest to Jay that he do the same?

Nenon was kind enough to build the demo unit, based on Sean's request, but the DC4 is Sean's product.

[Marcin_gps]

19 minutes ago, ray-dude said:

 

FWIW, when I wanted to do a review of the DC4, I approached Sean Jacobs and Sean was very supportive. Perhaps suggest to Jay that he do the same?

Nenon was kind enough to build the demo unit, based on Sean's request, but the DC4 is Sean's product.

I will ask Jay to contact Sean directly. I agree that It is better that he PSU comes directly from the manufacturer. It’s just I thought that Nenon is responsible for US market.

 

Regardless of the outcome, I’m looking forward to the shoutout.

 

Regards,

Marcin

[ray-dude]

1 minute ago, Marcin_gps said:

Regardless of the outcome, I’m looking forward to the shoutout.

 

 

Me as well.  Very much looking forward to reading Jay's review of the Optimo 3 Duo, and definite icing on the cake to read how he thinks it compares to the DC4

[ASRMichael]

1 hour ago, Marcin_gps said:

 

@Nenon Jay from audiobacon.net has finished his review of OPTIMO 3 DUO today with a comparison to Paul Hynes SR7 (I already know the outcome). I kindly asked him to postpone the publication and extend the review with a comparison to Sean Jacobs DC4 - you will hear from him soon regarding a review sample of the DC4. Are you OK to put it up against the OPTIMO 3 DUO? 

 

You can send one to me & I’ll compare to my SJ DC3? 👍 probably a fairer test. A DC4 can be 3x the price of a Optimo 3 Duo. I appreciate cost doesn’t come into it. 

[Marcin_gps]

9 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

You can send one to me & I’ll compare to my SJ DC3? 👍 probably a fairer test. A DC4 can be 3x the price of a Optimo 3 Duo. I appreciate cost doesn’t come into it. 

It's OK. I am aware of the price difference. I still want to pursue with the comparison to the DC4. (dual-rail) even though Jay warned me he will be brutally honest and that he will go over the good and the bad. There will a sound demo in the video review on YouTube with the different power supplies so the visitors can judge for themselves other than rely on the reviewer's taste alone.

 

Regards, 
Marcin

[exeric2]

12 hours ago, Topk said:

I posted this. A few comments on what happened since:

- if you have a big budget and you can find inventory, the new AMD 5 series is likely even better than the 3 series 
- I’m now running my 3950x at a locked speed of 4ghz (technically, it is overclocked) and locked voltage at around 1.2V. 

- stock HDplex heatsink but Kryonaut thermal paste everywhere 

- 2.8A consumption on Keces P8 single rail

- CPU temperature is 48 degrees. Playing music right now (no upsampling)...

- I do recommend an acrylic lid with holes and/or the fans discussed above or other strategies to keep heat as low as possible

- I do recommend a LPS with strong amperage at the very least 8A and higher amperage is better (I can explain in more details why in PM if you want, happy to help)

Hi, I knew it wasn't Nenon that posted that info. I really did appreciate it though. I have a "sleeper" audio system because I have a relatively small home, 1000 sf, and I didn't want the system to dominate my space. I installed a bookshelf spanning a long wall with cabinets with glass fronts below it. The cabinets are 24"deep and house all my system components but the bookshelf above it has a false back that is covered with acoustic fabric. Behind that fabric are 3 bass tube traps which are hidden by the fabric.  Also behind the fabric is an insulated flexible duct that has an 80 cfm fan in the attic on one end. On the other end it connects to the top of the cabinets. There are cutouts in the toe kick of the cabinet that allows air to move through the cabinet with the fan on. The air moves from bottom to top.

 

It works really well to cool the components that are in there right now. The fan sound isn't any louder than air moving through air conditioning ducts. It's pretty quiet. I've made a cut out in the shelves in the cabinet to accommodate the location of the heat sink on all component and also the HDPlex chassis so it will essentially be doing what you are doing with external fans. It's a very clean looking setup. It took a while to get everything right and still look good and camouflage the odd bits.

[exeric2]

I currently have a PH SR-7 with 12 and 19 volt rails to power the motherboard and CPU. I'm pretty sure it can handle the load. I haven't actually installed it yet but I expect it to sound excellent. I still think a voltage regulator is kind of a brute force method and don't like the energy inefficiency of that brute force method on a high load computer. If I could get something that is comparable in sound, preferably even better, that is also very efficient that would be great. I think most of us aren't that conscious of the high carbon footprint that our hobby has.

[Nenon]

On 4/17/2021 at 2:04 PM, Marcin_gps said:

 

@Nenon Jay from audiobacon.net has finished his review of OPTIMO 3 DUO today with a comparison to Paul Hynes SR7 (I already know the outcome). I kindly asked him to postpone the publication and extend the review with a comparison to Sean Jacobs DC4 - you will hear from him soon regarding a review sample of the DC4. 

 

I have done a DC4 vs. OPTIMO 3 DUO (a well burned-in unit lended by a friend) comparison. There is no comparison, Marcin. The DC4 is better on every level. Completely different class devices. It takes 5 seconds to hear that. Completely different prices too - and that's what everyone would expect at this price point. I know a few people who own or owned both at some point in time. Their feedback was the same. 
Even the DC3 (the way it is built today, not the ancient unit Terry from Pursuit Perfect System has) is better than the OPTIMO 3 DUO IMO. Although, here someone (typically systems with small bookshelf speakers) may prefer the sound signature of the LT3045 regulators, which I personally don't like. That would indeed be a more fair comparison IMO. 

 

On 4/17/2021 at 2:04 PM, Marcin_gps said:

Are you OK to put it up against the OPTIMO 3 DUO? 

Absolutely! I am a hard core DIY guy and love these types of comparisons. This particular one is not useful to me as I've already done it, but other people would benefit from it. I've also compared the DC4 to a standard SR7 (and other people have posted about that too). What I have not managed to do is to compare the DC4 to the Paul Hynes custom dual regulated SR7 XLR power supply (which is way better than the standard single regulated SR7). That's the only test I am personally interested in. 

But go ahead with the OPTIMO 3 DUO vs. DC4.  It would be great to arrange that. You guys need to contact Sean Jacobs directly for this.

[MarkusBarkus]

38 minutes ago, exeric2 said:

 

It works really well to cool the components that are in there right now.

@exeric2 that is a creative, thoughtful solution. Well done.

 

Do you run it seasonally to dissipate heat, or any time you're running?

[Marcin_gps]

1 minute ago, Nenon said:

I have done a DC4 vs. OPTIMO 3 DUO (a well burned-in unit lended by a friend) comparison. There is no comparison, Marcin. The DC4 is better on every level. Completely different class devices. It takes 5 seconds to hear that. Completely different prices too - and that's what everyone would expect at this price point. I know a few people who own or owned both at some point in time. Their feedback was the same. 
Even the DC3 (the way it is built today, not the ancient unit Terry from Pursuit Perfect System has) is better than the OPTIMO 3 DUO IMO. Although, here someone (typically systems with small bookshelf speakers) may prefer the sound signature of the LT3045 regulators, which I personally don't like. That would indeed be a more fair comparison IMO. 

 

Absolutely! I am a hard core DIY guy and love these types of comparisons. This particular one is not useful to me as I've already done it, but other people would benefit from it. I've also compared the DC4 to a standard SR7 (and other people have posted about that too). What I have not managed to do is to compare the DC4 to the unobtainable Paul Hynes custom dual regulated SR7 XLR power supply (which is way better than the standard single regulated SR7). That's the only test I am personally interested in. 

But go ahead with the OPTIMO 3 DUO vs. DC4.  It would be great to arrange that. You guys need to contact Sean Jacobs directly for this.

OK!

 

Would you mind telling me who lend you the OPTIMO 3 DUO? City and first letter of the name will do if the person who lend you the unit prefers to stay anonymous. 

 

No offense, but you are biased and so am I - an independent comparison and live demo A/B would be nice. 

 

Cheers,

Marcin

[exeric2]

11 minutes ago, MarkusBarkus said:

@exeric2 that is a creative, thoughtful solution. Well done.

 

Do you run it seasonally to dissipate heat, or any time you're running?

Thanks. I run it whenever the system is running. Sometimes I forget to turn the fan on and things warm up quickly!

[Nenon]

6 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

Would you mind telling me who lend you the OPTIMO 3 DUO? City and first letter of the name will do if the person who lend you the unit prefers to stay anonymous. 

Feels like you are questioning my integrity again! This would be the third time this week. This would also be the last time I respond to messages of that sort. Going forward messages from you questioning my integrity will be ignored. 

 

This was the first time:

On 4/14/2021 at 5:59 AM, Marcin_gps said:

@Nenon has a great experience, I have zero doubts about this. But the fact that he got the Taiko USB card as a non-SGM Extreme owner should ring a bell. As you all probably know, the Taiko USB Card is not available to purchase for anyone but Taiko SGM Extreme owners. I trust that this special treatment did not impact his objective opininion about the Taiko DC-ATX, but I'd like to see more reviews and comparisons before calling Taiko DC-ATX superior to all products on the martket. 

 

 

This was the second time:

On 4/14/2021 at 6:47 AM, Marcin_gps said:

I'd like to believe he's doing this purely as an enthusiast. But the fact that the Taiko DC-ATX order form is not available on Taiko website nor in the official Taiko sticky thread on whatsbestforum and was first posted here by @Nenon does not make him objective and this can't be debated. 

 

I've built a big network of audiophone friends here and get a lot of stuff to try. The Taiko USB card was the most difficult one to get, but I got that too. I am very mindful of what I post, how much I share, and what people I get involved in my posts. Given your crazy behaviour lately I am hesitant to drop any names. I'd not be surprised if you void their warranty because they sent it to me :). 

BUT... I've had the OPTIMO on two occasions. I didn't take any photos, because it was not something I was planning to post about. I've even replaced the DC connectors on a customer of yours, because the DC 2.5 mm connector you use doesn't make good contact on some devices with DC 2.1 mm connectors. I did find a picture of that:

 

1 hour ago, Marcin_gps said:

No offense, but you are biased and so am I - an independent comparison and live demo A/B would be nice. 

Understood. And I already commented on that. 

 

This is supposed to be a fun hobby! Instead, I have to defend myself from the attacks of manufacturers, because they are not happy about what I have found in my experiments. Let me be clear about this - I put a lot of time, effort, and money into all these experiments I am doing - and they are done purely from passion. I share the things I like and stay away from advertising Sean's products. In fact, this is the first time I've even mentioned that I've done some of these LPS comparisons. I've done many others, but it's not appropriate to share, and I won't. Now let's cut all the drama and get back on topic. As a reminder, since probably that got forgotten, the topic is: "Building a DIY Music Server". 

 

[exeric2]

1 hour ago, Nenon said:

I've also compared the DC4 to a standard SR7 (and other people have posted about that too). What I have not managed to do is to compare the DC4 to the unobtainable Paul Hynes custom dual regulated SR7 XLR power supply (which is way better than the standard single regulated SR7). That's the only test I am personally interested in. 

I misspoke earlier to Topk when I said that I had an SR7. I looked back at my records and I have the SR7T twin regulated PS. I also have the SR5T double 5 volt rail double regulated version to run my JCAT net card and usb card.

[NanoSword]

@Marcin_gps I didn't test any power and I've read a lot of reviews for the DC4 and DR7. My reading concluded that they are the best in the market even SR7  not in the level of DR7, for DC3 many upgraded to DC4 all this reading before Nenon  share in public his comparisons Many comments from Romaz and austinpop and Fourlegs about this powers.

[Exocer]

Back to Taiko DC-ATX testing with PHSR7T.

 

Let's label the configurations A and B. Where:

 

A. Taiko feeding entire server, fed Paul Hynes SR7T 19v 10a rated single rail. Ghent Gotham JSSG360 from Taiko Dc-ATX to EPS on motherboard.

B. Taiko feeding ATX only. EPS powered directly from a Paul Hynes SR7t 12v 12a rated rail. All using the best of Paul Hynes best silver DC cables. No JSSG.

 

Solution A:

 

Pros

1. Amazing transparency.

2. Sense of space is more open.

3. New microdetails are heard and are surprisingly at the forefront. These details cannot be unheard when switching back but did not draw attention to themselves in the same way.

4. The sense of more information retrieval. There will be moments in your listening where you are shocked to re-listen to a very familiar song and will hear a series of notes in the background that you did not know existed! It is something to experience for sure.

 

Cons

1. The sound is a bit leaner and i'm a sucker for a "full bodied" sound. (my preference)

2. More noticeable sibilance over time. I am convinced this has more to do with the EPS cable than the Taiko DC-ATX.

3. Not as much sense of ease. Perhaps I was approaching the 10A limit or not staying within a comfortable range.

4. Down a few notches in slam/impact.

 

Solution B:

 

Pros

1. The sense of ease you get with a dedicated clean 12v rail is apparent.

2. More slam and visceral effect in hard hitting songs.

3. Sibilance is completely not an issue, especially with female vocals and sharper sounding songs.

4. Fuller bodied sound with no obvious loss of speed.

 

Cons

1. The sound does not have the same openness as Solution A although I would not consider the soundstage smaller or closed in.

2. Ultra fine details are not as audible and do not draw as much attention to themselves although they are present (after they jump out at you with Solution A and you cannot unhear them).

3. You kind of miss the magic of solution A depending on the song

 

Summary

In terms of musicality it is a toss-up. Please keep in mind that the cables are not entirely equal and I have had sibilance issues with the Ghent cable in my system before. With the cables I have on-hand I would prefer Solution B for longer sessions, but Solution A has a Lot of potential and it has this way of drawing you into songs you know very well. I would be curious to see how Solution A would work out with a higher capacity rail and/or an equal quality EPS cable.

 

Is the Taiko DC-ATX worth it as an upgrade from the HDPlex? In my particular setup I took a risk and ordered it not knowing what to expect...and it was a major step in the right direction. The HDPlex is good, the Taiko is astounding in comparison, even for ATX alone I feel it is a worthwhile upgrade.

 

Follow-up: In the near future I will be building another EPS cable made from the same wire we will use for our unregulated linear power supplies. This cable is known to be very neutral so the hope is that I can conduct a fairer comparison between solutions A and B. 

 

Hopefully you all find this useful!