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Building a DIY Music Server


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Thanks Exocer, I have the same phSR7t with internal silver wire, ph silver cables- which hxplex ATX are you using is it the 800w. Can you say which usb cable you use to your as well please.

l have signed up for the taiko atx so wondered about the comparison.

are you streaming with roon etc? Or using local files.

I find local files stored on a nvme m2 using hqplayer sound much better than  roon-buffalo-ER-hqp.

 

 

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5 hours ago, dctom said:

which hxplex ATX are you using is it the 800w. Can you say which usb cable you use to your as well please.

The 800W HDPLEX was used. I probably should have mentioned that. 

 

USB Cable is the Sablon 2020.

 

Euphony Stylus is what I am testing with (no Roon components involved).

 

Both streaming from Tidal and local Redbook flac. Music files currently stored on Optane 800P.

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5 hours ago, Nenon said:

3. All my experiments were with two 85W TDP Xeon CPUs. Those are much harder to power than a single 65W TDP AMD Ryzen CPU or a 95W TDP I9 9900k. And that is where this power supply arrangement really shines. I am not sure how well it works on lower power CPUs. I am guessing on low powered CPUs a good LPS would work better. But this dual CPU computer is a different story. Those are some experiments people would need to make. There are specific applications in which we want to use the Taiko ATX. It's not a miracle device that would work best in every single application. 

 

4. I find the GaN Fet ATX to be extremely fast. Too fast actually. Adding some big capacitors in front of it makes it fuller, more dynamic, and more expansive. It also slows it down a little, although it is still faster than a LPS. Seems like this is one of the things @Exocer ran into. 

 

@Nenon, thanks.  Do you have any interest in testing the unregulated supply + Taiko solution with your i9 rig (if its still around)? It would be an interesting data point for those who plan on sticking with single CPU builds for a while. 

 

In the future I will test whether the unregulated linear supply + Taiko Dc-ATX will surpass the two high quality PH SR7T rails. That would not be an apples to apples comparison since my SR7T only outputs 19V DC, so considering the impact voltage has on the Taiko DC-ATX it would only serve as a way to compare what most would have on-hand (at least a single high quality 19V regulated DC rail) to a dedicated unregulated supply voiced to work with the Taiko DC-ATX/Asus Sage C621/Dual Xeon Scalable CPUs. This is still a worthwhile test to conduct for the community.

 

Another test to conduct would be powering just the CPU from the PHSR7T and ATX from the Unregulated supply + Taiko. I would think this would get a bit tricky and may introduce grounding issues if not careful. The more tests we conduct, the better.

 

With the right EPS cable perhaps Solution A (Taiko powering everything) will work better for me. I am very picky about the high frequencies. Maybe an issue elsewhere in my chain is revealed by the Taiko. There are so many variables to keep in check and to take into proper context when testing and making comparisons.

 

I have switched to Qobuz today and I will be conducting a similar test to the previous one in the near future. I will probably keep both Tidal and Qobuz since Qobuz did not have some of my favs. 

 

Cheers,

-Rob

 

 

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Have a question:

unfortunately Euphony OS meanwhile not supporting temperature monitoring of the AMD Ryzen (my MB is an Asus ROG Crosshair VII), so is here some way/trick to monitoring temperature externally(some small external display/panel that can duplicate on board status diodes)? 

To load Win OS with monitoring software this is too annoying and not comfortable of course.

Thanks

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20 hours ago, Exocer said:

The 800W HDPLEX was used. I probably should have mentioned that. 

 

USB Cable is the Sablon 2020.

 

Euphony Stylus is what I am testing with (no Roon components involved).

 

Both streaming from Tidal and local Redbook flac. Music files currently stored on Optane 800P.

 

Thank you Rob for the info.

 

Yes I use the same USB cable, performs well in my set up.

 

It would be good if you could compare the PH SR7t to the Taiko PSU, maybe powering a single CPU would give different results? After waiting so long for the PH7 seems a shame to give it up!

 

Have you compared local files and Qobuz using the Taiko?

 

From what you and Nenon have written it seems there are no predictable results with the Taiko. With the Taiko ATX being so transparent, cpu, motherboard, file source etc will all influence results in some way.

 

 

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a fan-less MB is nice, it is possible to use fan management as for the CPU on some MB;s so depending on the use case there may not be a reason to look for a fan-less MB. The Aorus MB I'm currently using has a fan-stop feature, in my usage the chipset fan never comes on, the CPU fan also hardly does.

ISP, cat8.1, Zylix switch, Finisar <1321>Solarflare 8522, AMD 9, Aorus X570 Elite, Corsair AX1200i, 8Gb Apacer Ram, Pink Faun I2S OCXO on LPS, home grown RJ45 I2S cable, Metrum Amethyst (modded to accept I2S), Klangfilm 204a, Klangfilm Trionor (3Tesla 835, JBL2402)

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15 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

And then the OS / software player etc. would also play an important role, some of them could actually reap the benefits by scaling right up to the performance provided by a (much) higher clock speed.

 

I sometimes wonder if high clock speeds = much more likely to disable the CPU's C-State (power saving) transitions which means hopefully a more steady state power consumption leading to better SQ potentially.  No doubt about it, disabling C-States for me results in a very noticeable uptick.  This can be done in software (Linux Kernel has an option to simply disable sleep states).

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that should be easy to check for someone, enable and disable C states while overclocking and listen. For me the improved SQ is noticeable with C states disabled (in Bios and in Daphile-Linux)

ISP, cat8.1, Zylix switch, Finisar <1321>Solarflare 8522, AMD 9, Aorus X570 Elite, Corsair AX1200i, 8Gb Apacer Ram, Pink Faun I2S OCXO on LPS, home grown RJ45 I2S cable, Metrum Amethyst (modded to accept I2S), Klangfilm 204a, Klangfilm Trionor (3Tesla 835, JBL2402)

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3 hours ago, dctom said:

It would be good if you could compare the PH SR7t to the Taiko PSU, maybe powering a single CPU would give different results? After waiting so long for the PH7 seems a shame to give it up!

Sure. I will conduct this test. I do not think you will need to give it up if you are sticking with a single CPU. The Taiko DC-ATX + PH SR7T is fantastic. You have the option to keep it and I think you will be pleased going that route. I think the Unregulated supply is more of a necessity for the Dual CPU build per Nenons tests. Will keep you posted.

 

  

3 hours ago, dctom said:

Have you compared local files and Qobuz using the Taiko?

No, I have not. I can test and report back my findings. Porting over my favorites to Qobuz as we speak :)

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FYI - for those of us who aren't interested in running both HQP and NAA on the same dual-socket Xeon Scalable motherboard, we could find specific single-socket ones (i.e. Skylake-SP and Cascade Lake-SP) with Sub-NUMA Clustering that's supported by relevant BIOS options

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/page/616/?tab=comments#comment-1014096

On 12/16/2019 at 7:37 AM, romaz said:

"Well RAM is a topic on its own, to start with, the 2 cpu’s are split into domains (NUMA / SNC), so you really have 2 x 6 dimms, 6 for each CPU, they are not shared. Music services have their own cpu/dimms and the OS has its own cpu/dims. So its sort of a core and endpoint into a single machine going beyond just core allocations for individual processes.

 

https://software.intel.com/content/www/us/en/develop/articles/intel-xeon-processor-scalable-family-technical-overview.html

Quote

SNC mode has to be enabled by BIOS to expose two SNC domains per socket and set up resource affinity and latency parameters for use with NUMA primitives.

 

I just DAFS on Google and only found motherboards from maybe a dozen vendors with such BIOS options

  • Cisco
  • Dell
  • EVGA
  • Fujitsu
  • H3C
  • HPE
  • Huawei
  • Intel
  • Lenovo
  • NEC
  • Oracle
  • Supermicro

The vast majority of them could only be purchased as a complete server system (usually the form factor itself ain't even close to SSI-EEB / E-ATX / ATX) instead of a standalone motherboard, therefore I just narrowed them down to these guys

  • EVGA SR-3 Dark
  • Supermicro X11SPL-F
  • Supermicro X11SPD-F
  • Supermicro X11SPA-T
  • Supermicro X11SPA-TF
  • Supermicro X11SPG-TF
  • Supermicro X11SPi-TF
  • Supermicro X11SPW-TF
  • Supermicro X11SPW-CTF
  • Supermicro X11SPH-NCTF
  • Supermicro X11SPH-NCTPF

IMHO it would be quite interesting to try SNC with a single 20-core Xeon Gold 6138 (125W TDP might not need any fans if we weren't upsampling with HQP?) and see if that were getting anywhere close to a pair of 10-core Xeon Silver

 

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/120476/intel-xeon-gold-6138-processor-27-5m-cache-2-00-ghz.html

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Xeon-Scalable-Gold-6138-SkyLake-20-Core-2-0-GHz-3-7-GHz-Turbo-LGA-3647-SR3B5-b/254921475866

 


 

I have no idea if this seller in China were legit or otherwise, though 20-core Xeon Gold 6222V @ 115W TDP could be found below for 4,300 RMB / 660 bucks

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=641024936013

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/193962/intel-xeon-gold-6222v-processor-27-5m-cache-1-80-ghz.html

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14 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

Supermicro X11SPL-F

I have this motherboard and the silver xeon 4210. I'm also waiting for a taiko dc/atx and I have a 2 rail ph sr7t. 

 

I just received 4gb x 12 ecc wt ram from Apacer for my upcoming dual cpu build... I could try these with my current server and use these bios customizations... but I'm a noob on these things. I'm open to instructions! 

 

 

@Nenon, with the latest info from extreme-land regarding improved player software and usb connection decreasing need for network upgrades, do you think that delta between dual cpu and single cpu systems might decrease?

 

Since the dual cpu system is designed to decrease cpu use of network resources for the "endpoint cpu", perhaps most of that could be taken care of with software. 

 

Either way, this is somewhat testable but a big investment. 

 

 

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9 minutes ago, Downtheline said:
1 hour ago, seeteeyou said:

Supermicro X11SPL-F

I have this motherboard and the silver xeon 4210. I'm also waiting for a taiko dc/atx and I have a 2 rail ph sr7t. 

Would be interesting if you tried it with the Xeon Silver. You'll have less cores overall but there may still be benefits to doing what@seeteeyou suggested. This would be a great data point.

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Part 1 is BIOS setup as shown on page 80 of the Supermicro X11SPL-F manual

 

https://www.supermicro.com/manuals/motherboard/C620/MNL-1950.pdf#page=80

Quote

Chipset Configuration → North Bridge → UPI Configuration → SNC → Enable

 

Part 2 is the OS setup and Windows 10 should look like this

 

https://www.windowsdigitals.com/how-to-set-process-cpu-affinity-priority-permanently-in-windows-10/

 

Process Lasso and dAffinity could also handle something like that but not all features seemed to be free, though the freebies could already cover the basics

 

https://bitsum.com/howfree/

https://www.d7xtech.com/daffinity/

 

However, we're talking about 2 clusters on the same 10-core Xeon Silver 4210 processor and therefore I dunno if the primary one were occupying CPU 0 through CPU 4 and secondary one were occupying CPU 5 through CPU 9 respectively.

 

It doesn't hurt to try different combos and compare the results, though.

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2 hours ago, Nenon said:

 

6 hours ago, MarcelNL said:

the CPU fan also hardly does

Ugh, I would stay away from any computer fans. But that's me. 

 

I definitelyy plan to get rid of the fan, so far I haven't found a solution that I trust for passive cooling but the fan does not kick on until 55'C core temp which I hardly reach....current temp with a FLAC playing is 48'C, the Xilinx card runs hotter!

 

ISP, cat8.1, Zylix switch, Finisar <1321>Solarflare 8522, AMD 9, Aorus X570 Elite, Corsair AX1200i, 8Gb Apacer Ram, Pink Faun I2S OCXO on LPS, home grown RJ45 I2S cable, Metrum Amethyst (modded to accept I2S), Klangfilm 204a, Klangfilm Trionor (3Tesla 835, JBL2402)

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15 hours ago, Exocer said:

Sure. I will conduct this test. I do not think you will need to give it up if you are sticking with a single CPU. The Taiko DC-ATX + PH SR7T is fantastic. You have the option to keep it and I think you will be pleased going that route. I think the Unregulated supply is more of a necessity for the Dual CPU build per Nenons tests. Will keep you posted.

 

  

No, I have not. I can test and report back my findings. Porting over my favorites to Qobuz as we speak :)

 

Thanks, look forward to seeing your results.

 

Do you know if Taiko are contacting prospective purchasers yet. I did submit one of their contact forms.

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8 hours ago, dctom said:

Do you know if Taiko are contacting prospective purchasers yet. I did submit one of their contact forms.

Hi dctom,

This is a better question for @JayM who is here representing the Taiko brand and providing updates.

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