Building a DIY Music Server

[MarcelNL]

heck why use Tidal, an MP3 gets you the same words

[The Computer Audiophile]

9 minutes ago, Gurkel said:

 

Leva that aside. If you send data over the internet, each data package has it's own CRC code attached, and if the packet fails the check it is transitted again (if you use TCP). No switch alters data, there is no data clenaisng of whatsoever analog side effects here. Pretty obvious but people buy it.

USB has zero error correction. 

[Mops911]

16 minutes ago, Gurkel said:

Leva that aside. If you send data over the internet, each data package has it's own CRC code attached, and if the packet fails the check it is transitted again (if you use TCP). No switch alters data, there is no data clenaisng of whatsoever analog side effects here. Pretty obvious but people buy it.

ok @Gurkel you are a hard nut lol...very Swiss...haha

 

Yeah, everybody here understands IP packages, believe me. Nobody says that they are altered by a switch or anything. BUT

 

at some point, yeah in the DAC, this analog signal of logical ones and zeroes get translated into an analog voltage signal. And the analog signal of ones and zeroes might carry noise. Yes, NOISE!! Its all sine waves dude...even in a USB transmission. At that point of singal conversion, there is LOTS going on which nobody understand in detail but respected experts HEAR. You can dismiss it, but an effect is still observed!!

 

I was at exactly the point 2 months ago where you are now. I dismissed theoretically all this snake oil. Its all ones and zeroes. I was soooo smart and everybody incl the real experts were full of it....haha....I hate experts, until they are right....haha

[auricgoldfinger]

It seems to me this thread went completely off the rails about 3 pages ago.  I suggest deleting them would keep the thread properly focused.  This discussion rapidly devolved into the usual objective/subjective arguments.

[Downtheline]

4 minutes ago, auricgoldfinger said:

  I suggest deleting them would keep the thread properly focused.

Agreed

[Anwar]

I have a question to those who built their own LPSU or purchase LPSU for use with music server/streamer:

 

The power up and power down sequences are specified here:

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/guides/power-supply-design-guide-june.pdf

 

If separate LPSU DC rails are purchased/built, and all the LPSU DC rails are always on, i.e. not truly ATX, since the LPSU does not include power supply supervisor IC (for PSON, DC rails, and POWER GOOD sequencing), and/or the voltage regulators do not have SHDN pin, are there any issues having all DC rails energized when the CPU is not running?  or issues when pressing chassis power button to power up the system since the DC rails are not following the sequence in the document above?

 

Please note the question is not for those who purchased LPSU to power ATX DC-DC converter, but for those having LPSU DC rails directly connected to ATX power connector on motherboard.

 

Thank you.

[seeteeyou]

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/58164-building-a-diy-music-server/page/77/?tab=comments#comment-1115283

On 3/7/2021 at 4:20 PM, seeteeyou said:

Did anyone give P5800X a shot yet?

 

https://newsroom.intel.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2020/12/Enable-Unprecedented-Storage-Value-with-Intel-Optane-SSD-P5800X-David-Tuhy.pdf

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/58164-building-a-diy-music-server/page/77/?tab=comments#comment-1115283

On 3/8/2021 at 3:09 AM, Nenon said:

Looks good! Not easily available yet. I will get the 400GB version for the OS at some point. 

 

Podcast #79: The Future of 3D XPoint And Optane with Chris Mellor

https://www.storagereview.com/podcast/podcast-79-the-future-of-3d-xpoint-optane-with-chris-mellor

https://www.storagereview.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/Chris-Mellor-Pod.mp3

 

Micron bought Intel’s stake in joint 3D XPoint venture in 2018 for $1.5 billion, now says it will focus instead on CXL tech for data centers

https://www.marketwatch.com/story/micron-drops-memory-tech-that-intel-gave-up-on-two-years-ago-11615931293

 

Intel teases short-ruler Optane drive with speed boost and NAND SSD to OCP

https://blocksandfiles.com/2021/04/29/intel-adds-optane-drive-speed-tweak-and-short-ruler-nand-drive/

 

Intel's director of technology initiatives was surprised by Micron's exit from 3D XPoint business and confirms company's plans to have Optane on emerging CXL interface.

https://searchstorage.techtarget.com/news/252499716/Intel-breaks-silence-on-effects-of-Microns-3D-XPoint-exit

 

CXL: Coherency, Memory, and I/O Semantics on PCIe Infrastructure

https://www.electronicdesign.com/technologies/embedded-revolution/article/21162617/cxl-coherency-memory-and-io-semantics-on-pcie-infrastructure

 

Mighty interesting options in the future.

[dminches]

18 hours ago, Gurkel said:

 

 

I stumbled across the description of one of these prebuild HQ servers (Takio? Taiko?), had a look at the product details and was a bit amused to see that someone really gets away with this and actually sells these computers.

 

 

So, why spend thousands of dollars if it's not required?

 

Have you ever heard one?  You seem to have an opinion about something without ever listening to one.  I guess you think they just built a computer in a nice case and are selling it as something special when it is not.

 

[Nenon]

Hey guys - I am on vacation until mid-May but have been getting a bunch of messages. Some of them alerting me that I need to start moderating this thread and others asking about the unregulated LPS.

 

Please get back on track here. If someone has questions about why high-end servers (or anything upstream from the DAC) matter, please open another topic. This thread is for those who want to improve their source upstream from the DAC. There is a lot of useful info on these pages but it's getting harder and harder to find between the rest of the posts (some of which are completely useless). When you post something think whether your post is on topic and whether it would be beneficial for the readers here. If not, perhaps you should not post. If you open another thread and need my attention, just tag my name, and I will get notification. Or you can always send me a private message. 

BTW, @The Computer Audiophile - can you please give me access to delete messages here?

 

I've seen some questions here I have not answered yet. Give me some time, and I will go back and catch up when I get back from vacation. 

 

I've heard that Taiko has shipped most of the ATX pre-orders. And I've had a bunch of questions about the unregulated LPS and the DIY recipe. I am waiting for the Noratel transformers Taiko ordered to arrive to built a finished unregulated LPS unit. Until we get those, there isn't too much I can do. I have posted details about the unregulated LPS here - 

On 3/22/2021 at 6:30 PM, Nenon said:

Some updates from me on the Taiko DIY project.

 

1. The Taiko ATX was delayed and scheduled for the end of April now.

2. The Chassis is still work in progress. Emile has been super busy, but I was assured today that rendering and pricing is coming up ASAP.

3. Taiko USB card - that unfortunately would remain exclusive to Extreme users. We, the DIY community, would not have access to the Taiko USB card for now. It's quite disappointing, and I am starting to think if I need to buy an Extreme. It's still unlikely for me to go that route, but even if I do, that would be a good thing, as I would have a reference to compare this DIY build to.

4. TAS - that is also exclusive to Extreme owners for now. 

5. Unregulated LPS to feed the Taiko ATX - see the rest of this message below.

 

Here is a quick update on the unregulated LPS.

 

It looks something like this:

IEC Inlet / Fuse --> Soft start module --> Transformer --> Rectifier --> Choke --> 3 x Mundorf HC caps (each bypassed with a VCAP ODAM Film Cap)

 

1 pcs.

IEC/Fuse

TBD

$20 - $90 range

 

1 pcs.

Transformer

Emile has these on order

Don't know the price yet.

 

1 pcs.

Soft start module

https://www.hypex.nl/product/softstart-module/38

~$50 

 

1 pcs.

Rectifier

Taiko will provide an active mosfet rectifier.

 

1 pcs.

Hammond 159ZJ choke. 

Mouser.com part #546-159ZJ

$26.71

 

3 pcs.

Mundorf Capacitor 22000uF 80Vdc MLytic HC

https://www.partsconnexion.com/MUNDORF-70412.html

$100.41 each ($301.23)

 

3 pcs.

VCAP ODAM - 0.1 uF

https://www.v-cap.com/odam-capacitors.php

$53.74 each ($161.22)

 

I am trying these as well now - https://www.mundorf.com/audio/en/shop/cables/mconnect_clg/Presskabelschuh-M6-Ring-Kupfer/?card=4081

 

All that stuff can be made in a way that does not require soldering. For example, the capacitors look like this with screws on top:

With the right pre-terminated cables you can just use a screwdriver to connect it.

We can pick an IEC inlet that looks like this (and does not require soldering):

 

I think we can design this whole thing so even people who can't solder anything can put it together. Obviously, there will be a lot of pictures, explanations, and disclaimers. You would need the connecting wires (with pre soldered connectors).

BTW, I did not pick these components with the agenda to make a solder-less unit. They just sounded best, and the screw connections were a bonus.

 

I've picked the wiring too. But it's a wire that is not available on the consumer market, so I'll have to figure out how to make it more accessible. The Mundorf silver/gold wire is also an option for cost no object units/

 

If I were you, I would not be in a rush to get all the parts now. We may arrange a group order with some discounts. I am looking at that. I may even provide the entire kit with everything needed and detailed instructions. Or get someone else to do that. Also, there is a small chance that I may replace some parts in the last minute (be aware of that!), especially with the plan "B" rectification. I also have a plan Z in mind to test - tube rectification :). Yes, I am serious, but that's not a priority. 

 

All in all, I think we are looking at around $1,000 for the unregulated LPS. Not bad at all for how good this thing sounds with the Taiko ATX. Keep in mind this is designed and voiced with the Taiko ATX. You can try it on a HDPlex DC to DC ATX if you like but it's not a regulated LPS and you can't feed your computer directly with this.

 

 

If you are in North America or Europe, don't jump on buying all the parts. I am trying to arrange a group buy with hopefully some discounts from the retail price. There are also a couple of people who are willing to build an unregulated LPS (for a fee no more than $500 - that was my condition) for those who prefer not to do it themselves. I will also build a few units myself to kick this off and will make plenty of pictures and descriptions. In other words, wait until I get some transformers and parts and will get the DIY unregulated LPS documented. 

 

@Exocer is helping me with some CAD drawings. We'll try to get some custom cases produced to host the unregulated LPS as a standalone unit. And we are still waiting for the Taiko chassis, which will have space to build the unregulated LPS inside. 

 

In the meantime, the Taiko ATX is a good replacement for the HDplex 400W and 800W DC to DC ATX and it's definitely a step up. How much better it is would depend on how resolving your system is. It's a pretty significant upgrade if you have a good resolving system. Keep in mind that it takes a few days to settle. It might be a little bright and lean in the beginning. But once it settles it sounds really good.

 

I have to go now, but give me some more time, and I will post everything you need to know about the unregulated LPS and more.

 

 

 

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, Nenon said:

BTW, @The Computer Audiophile - can you please give me access to delete messages here?

 

Sorry it's come to this, but speaking from, ahem, experience, it's unfortunately necessary. Hopefully things will get back on track once the "bad apples" realize they're wasting their time on keystrokes that are destined for the bit bucket.

[The Computer Audiophile]

23 hours ago, Nenon said:

can you please give me access to delete messages here?

You now can hide posts from view. 

[mrkoven]

Is there a list of Z390 mobos (ATX) that support ECC apacer? i was planning to get the gigabyte designare but doesnt look in stock anywhere at MSRP

[Dev]

Taiko is action 😄

 

[ASRMichael]

7 minutes ago, Dev said:

Taiko is action 😄

 

Early opinion? 

[Dev]

Just now, ASRMichael said:

Early opinion? 

 

Got the package only couple of minutes back. It was fairly straightforward to replace the Hdplex 800w in my current system. Just got one song to play before I had to leave the system. With what I heard, it sounded a bit more relaxed "I think". I wasn't expecting this since the CPU is not powered by Taiko at this time. Hdplex has a very slight buzz with PS_ON, no buzz with Taiko.

 

More to follow.... 

[Darryl R]

35 minutes ago, Dev said:

Taiko is action 😄

 

 

Just got mine too.  Couldn't believe the weight.  Certainly the copper backplate ...

 

How are you securing that?  My DC-ATX is currently in the same place, for my short ATX cable, but I had to hack some screws in from the bottom which I'm not doing with this.

[Dev]

7 minutes ago, Darryl R said:

How are you securing that? 

 

 

I tapped 3xM3 and used an existing one for the 4th.

[Exocer]

I used this as a stopgap (seriously) for mounting the Taiko DC-ATX:

https://www.amazon.com/Command-Picture-Hanging-Strips-17206-ES/dp/B00404YKZI/ref=asc_df_B00404YKZI/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=416671023321&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6444278770499751207&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9073501&hvtargid=pla-340383477275&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=90730998621&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=416671023321&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6444278770499751207&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9073501&hvtargid=pla-340383477275

[di-fi]

On 5/2/2021 at 1:25 PM, The Computer Audiophile said:

You now can hide posts from view. 

@NenonWhile you have an "eraser" could you also use it for the way too long last April 15th discussion that led to a separate post from Marcin? No hard feelings but it seemed it made many feel uncomfortable, having no place here. Disagreement is ok but THIS could have been discussed in private. Enjoy your holidays, I love reading this thread.

[genvirt]

7 hours ago, Exocer said:

I used this as a stopgap (seriously) for mounting the Taiko DC-ATX:

https://www.amazon.com/Command-Picture-Hanging-Strips-17206-ES/dp/B00404YKZI/ref=asc_df_B00404YKZI/?tag=hyprod-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=416671023321&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6444278770499751207&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9073501&hvtargid=pla-340383477275&psc=1&tag=&ref=&adgrpid=90730998621&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvadid=416671023321&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6444278770499751207&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9073501&hvtargid=pla-340383477275

When I asked Larry (HDPlex) about ATX mounting, he said that it's better secure ATX module straight on the chassis surface for better heat release,   

[Dev]

Doubled sided tape also works. I know some who has been using it for a while now but I rather prefer to mount it straight to the chassis for better heat dissipation as well. I have been running the server with Taiko for couple of hrs now and it does get warm (not hot) and mounting it to the bottom helps a bit. We also have to note that too much heat on the bottom plate of the hdplex chassis, which is quiet thin, is also not good since this might affect the motherboard performance. I was initially thinking of applying some thermal paste to the copper heat plate but then rejected it. The best way to mount it would be vertically on the back of the front panel in the h5 case but you have to get a bit creative with this.

[seeteeyou]

Who said that Intel Optane SSD DC P5800X is not for PC? Review and test of the fastest drive in the world

https://4youdaily.com/technology-and-it-market-news/who-said-that-intel-optane-ssd-dc-p5800x-is-not-for-pc-review-and-test-of-the-fastest-drive-in-the-world/

Quote

The second generation of 3D Xpoint together with the SLNBF controller has even lower latency, as a result of which Optane SSD DC P5800X is ahead of Optane SSD 905P test scenarios and increases superiority over Samsung 980 Pro and WD Black SN850.

 

Intel Optane SSD P5800X Review

https://www.storagereview.com/review/intel-optane-ssd-p5800x-review

Quote

The Intel Optane SSD P5800X is the most impressive storage class memory SSD we have yet to see in our testing. Not only did it hit the top of all of our tests it had latency as low as 28µs.

 

Quote

In our first VDBench Workload Analysis, Random 4K Read, the P5800X flat out dusted the other drives and peaked at 1,416,092 IOPS and a latency of just 85.5µs.

 

Quote

4K random write showed another impressing display of performance and stayed under 100µs throughout with a peak of 1,328,538 IOPS with a latency of just 90.3µs.

 

Still belonging to the "unobtainium" category at the moment

 

https://www.pc-canada.com/item/SSDPF21Q400GB01.html

https://www.dihuni.com/product/intel-ssdpf21q400gb01-optane-dc-p5800x-400-gb-solid-state-drive-2-5-internal-pci-express-nvme-pci-express-nvme-4-0-x4/

 

Lead time in China should be around 3 to 4 weeks

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=643140908202

 

---

 

Intel Optane P5801X and D7-P5520 SSDs Launched

https://www.servethehome.com/intel-optane-p5801x-and-d7-p5520-ssds-launched/

Quote

The Intel Optane P5801X is going to be available in the 400GB and 800GB capacities for E1.S.

 

Funtin PCIe NVMe Ruler 1U EDSFF Short SSD Adapter

https://www.amazon.com/Funtin-Ruler-EDSFF-Short-Adapter/dp/B07QN3JXZ4

 

PCIe x4 Gen4 with ReDriver to Gen-Z 1C (EDSFF) Adapter

https://www.amazon.com/PCIe-ReDriver-Gen-Z-EDSFF-Adapter/dp/B08WNVNTFX

https://www.microsatacables.com/pcie-gen4-x-4-with-redriver-to-edsff-gen-z-1c-adapter

Externally powering Optane P5801X via 2×3 pin header should be fairly easy then.

[Ben-M]

10 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

Who said that Intel Optane SSD DC P5800X is not for PC? Review and test of the fastest drive in the world

https://4youdaily.com/technology-and-it-market-news/who-said-that-intel-optane-ssd-dc-p5800x-is-not-for-pc-review-and-test-of-the-fastest-drive-in-the-world/

 

Intel Optane SSD P5800X Review

https://www.storagereview.com/review/intel-optane-ssd-p5800x-review

 

 

 

Still belonging to the "unobtainium" category at the moment

 

https://www.pc-canada.com/item/SSDPF21Q400GB01.html

https://www.dihuni.com/product/intel-ssdpf21q400gb01-optane-dc-p5800x-400-gb-solid-state-drive-2-5-internal-pci-express-nvme-pci-express-nvme-4-0-x4/

 

Lead time in China should be around 3 to 4 weeks

 

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=643140908202

 

---

 

Intel Optane P5801X and D7-P5520 SSDs Launched

https://www.servethehome.com/intel-optane-p5801x-and-d7-p5520-ssds-launched/

 

Funtin PCIe NVMe Ruler 1U EDSFF Short SSD Adapter

https://www.amazon.com/Funtin-Ruler-EDSFF-Short-Adapter/dp/B07QN3JXZ4

 

PCIe x4 Gen4 with ReDriver to Gen-Z 1C (EDSFF) Adapter

https://www.amazon.com/PCIe-ReDriver-Gen-Z-EDSFF-Adapter/dp/B08WNVNTFX

https://www.microsatacables.com/pcie-gen4-x-4-with-redriver-to-edsff-gen-z-1c-adapter

Externally powering Optane P5801X via 2×3 pin header should be fairly easy then.

I never heard anyone say these weren't for PC. I'm totally eyeing one for my upcoming HQPlayer Upsampling computer and also considering how I might add one to an Intel NUC11i7 via a m.2-u.2 adapter since I put my NUCs in bigger, silent aluminum cases anyway, and the u.2 drive would fit. 

[dminches]

16 hours ago, Dev said:

Doubled sided tape also works. I know some who has been using it for a while now but I rather prefer to mount it straight to the chassis for better heat dissipation as well. I have been running the server with Taiko for couple of hrs now and it does get warm (not hot) and mounting it to the bottom helps a bit. We also have to note that too much heat on the bottom plate of the hdplex chassis, which is quiet thin, is also not good since this might affect the motherboard performance. I was initially thinking of applying some thermal paste to the copper heat plate but then rejected it. The best way to mount it would be vertically on the back of the front panel in the h5 case but you have to get a bit creative with this.

 

I have used that.  I have also used Velcro pads which stick on both sides.  It may not be perfect for heat dissipation but it makes it very easy to remove the unit if you have to do something to it or adjust its position.

 

[MarcelNL]

My current favorite is nano tape, somehow it does dampen vibrations AND it does not stick like crazy and leaves no residue!