Building a DIY Music Server

[matthias]

9 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

400W truly linear PSU can not power 2 Xeons. Hence my assumption

 

So you are publicly claiming that the info Taiko Audio is providing on their HP is false?

 

Matt

[Marcin_gps]

Just now, matthias said:

 

So you are publicly claiming that the info Taiko Audio is providing on their HP is false?

 

Matt

Yes, this is my assumption, unless they prove otherwise. 

 

I am disclosing full specs and details of the OPTIMO ATX, so everyone can judge for himself. 

 

What I see on Taiko Website and in the pictures are only renowned capaciitors and transformers. What is underneath is not disclosed as far as I know. 

[JayM]

Here is a specification sheet of our GaN based DC DC-ATX. Hopefully this provides some more insight! :)

 

This is a new development, not implemented in the SGM Extreme music servers. This was originally designed to facilitate a cheaper server model, without compromising performance. As the demand for our music servers is keeping us rather busy, and so delaying the potential launch of a smaller server. As we will not get around to this anytime soon, we’ve decided to make this available for DIY projects. This design allows you to have a high-performance power supply which can be powered from an unregulated power supply as low as 100 USD costs in parts (transformer, rectifier, filter capacitance). Everyone should feel free to experiment with the unregulated DC-rail, its make-up will largely determine total system performance and sound. We are eagerly looking forward to your experiences!

 

 

 

 

[Marcin_gps]

2 minutes ago, JayM said:

Here is a specification sheet of our GaN based DC DC-ATX. Hopefully this provides some more insight! :)

 

This is a new development, not implemented in the SGM Extreme music servers. This was originally designed to facilitate a cheaper server model, without compromising performance. As the demand for our music servers is keeping us rather busy, and so delaying the potential launch of a smaller server. As we will not get around to this anytime soon, we’ve decided to make this available for DIY projects. This design allows you to have a high-performance power supply which can be powered from an unregulated power supply as low as 100 USD costs in parts (transformer, rectifier, filter capacitance). Everyone should feel free to experiment with the unregulated DC-rail, its make-up will largely determine total system performance and sound. We are eagerly looking forward to your experiences!

 

 

@JayM

 

Thank you for posting the specification. 

 

Are you able to confirm whether the power supply in the Taiko SGM Extreme is truly linear ATX or a combination of a linear PSU and switching DC-ATX converter? 

 

Regards, 

Marcin

[MarcelNL]

1 minute ago, Marcin_gps said:

The situation on the graph is the most extreme, in real life, and for a music server, if intensive DSP is disabled, the ripple will be in µV. For a truly linear ATX power supply this is a huge achievement. 

for me there is no graph showing...

[Marcin_gps]

Just now, MarcelNL said:

for me there is no graph showing...

It is here: 

 

[MarcelNL]

https://audiophilestyle.com/uploads/monthly_2021_04/image.png.cec4ce56161f3dc3350f204d20c6320d.png isonly getting me a file not found message

[Marcin_gps]

5 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

https://audiophilestyle.com/uploads/monthly_2021_04/image.png.cec4ce56161f3dc3350f204d20c6320d.png isonly getting me a file not found message

I uploaded again. 

 

 

[Marcin_gps]

Step change of load (1A - 23A) is in microseconds and output voltage drops in few mV

That's how fast the OPTIMO ATX is

[Marcin_gps]

OPTIMO ATX - active rectifier (unique feature specifically developed for the OPTIMO ATX)

 

For the OPTIMO ATX whopping current we designed unique active rectifier. It is using MOS FET transistors instead of diodes that are switched at zero points of AC waveform by special circuit. The MOS FET in this application has forward resistance below 1 mOhm (0.001 Ohm) – this outperforms diode resulting in much better dynamic response. JCAT designed analog control circuit with so called “floating ground” which means that there is no ground connection for rectifier at any point that otherwise might be path for introducing noise into DC circuit. This further ensures best noise performance as with GHz speed of MOS FETs there is practically no switching noise.

[MarcelNL]

If I click the links I shared I'm still getting file not found.

 

So...with the revelation of the Taiko ATX we may need to add a Corsair AX1600i to the mix as might be somewhat similar (to the naked eye)

[Marcin_gps]

4 minutes ago, MarcelNL said:

If I click the links I shared I'm still getting file not found.

 

So...with the revelation of the Taiko ATX we may need to add a Corsair AX1600i to the mix as might be somewhat similar (to the naked eye)

It shows correctly, try refreshing the page

 

[Marcin_gps]

I will wait for @JayM reply to the question in the post above before I descrbe other technological advantages in the OPTIMO ATX.     

[ray-dude]

1 hour ago, Marcin_gps said:

I will wait for @JayM reply to the question in the post above before I descrbe other technological advantages in the OPTIMO ATX.     

 

Perhaps best to wait until both products are in the hands of real people?   With listening impressions, a discussion of technological advantages and how they impact listening impressions would make a lot more sense.

 

I'm very much looking forward to both products being in the wild, and hearing what people hear.  

[Nenon]

1 hour ago, MarcelNL said:

So...with the revelation of the Taiko ATX we may need to add a Corsair AX1600i to the mix as might be somewhat similar (to the naked eye)

There is just no comparison. I've tried it. The AC to DC is pretty bad on the Corsair AX1600i. It was quite disappointing experience. 

 

1 hour ago, Marcin_gps said:

I will wait for @JayM reply to the question in the post above before I descrbe other technological advantages in the OPTIMO ATX.     

While I am always interested in those technical discussions, can we move this discussion to another thread please?

The last few pages here have been overwhelmed with the OPTIMO and why it's better than this and that.

 

The Sean Jacobs DC4 blows away the OPTIMO 3 DUO in every aspect (confirmed by me and several users), but I never publicly said that, because I find it inappropriate. Every power supply I have heard that uses LT3045 regulators has the same sound signature, and I don't like that sound signature. They have amazing specs but don't sound good. I don't go to other people's threads to keep telling them all that. @Marcin_gps - you should not do that either. 

 

Let's have people try the different products and decide for themselves. I would like to go back on topic and discuss DIY here. 

[Nenon]

1 hour ago, Nenon said:

I would like to go back on topic and discuss DIY here. 

 

Speaking of DIY, I have managed to make the active MOSFET rectifier I was testing available to us to use in the unregulated LPS. It is designed by Taiko. More details on that to follow.

 

There are a total of 3 options I am considering. 

The first one is super simple and cheap - Transformer --> MOSFET rectifier. That's it.

The second option is what I previously shared - Transformer --> MOSFET rectifier --> Choke --> 3 x Mundorf HC caps (each bypassed with a VCAP ODAM Film Cap)

On 3/22/2021 at 6:30 PM, Nenon said:

Some updates from me on the Taiko DIY project.

 

1. The Taiko ATX was delayed and scheduled for the end of April now.

2. The Chassis is still work in progress. Emile has been super busy, but I was assured today that rendering and pricing is coming up ASAP.

3. Taiko USB card - that unfortunately would remain exclusive to Extreme users. We, the DIY community, would not have access to the Taiko USB card for now. It's quite disappointing, and I am starting to think if I need to buy an Extreme. It's still unlikely for me to go that route, but even if I do, that would be a good thing, as I would have a reference to compare this DIY build to.

4. TAS - that is also exclusive to Extreme owners for now. 

5. Unregulated LPS to feed the Taiko ATX - see the rest of this message below.

 

Here is a quick update on the unregulated LPS.

 

It looks something like this:

IEC Inlet / Fuse --> Soft start module --> Transformer --> Rectifier --> Choke --> 3 x Mundorf HC caps (each bypassed with a VCAP ODAM Film Cap)

 

1 pcs.

IEC/Fuse

TBD

$20 - $90 range

 

1 pcs.

Transformer

Emile has these on order

Don't know the price yet.

 

1 pcs.

Soft start module

link: TBD

~$50 

 

1 pcs.

Rectifier - that's TBD. There is something that I am using at the moment and I like a lot. But it's an intellectual property that I may not be able to share. I have tested a few and working on a plan B.

 

1 pcs.

Hammond 159ZJ choke. 

Mouser.com part #546-159ZJ

$26.71

 

3 pcs.

Mundorf Capacitor 22000uF 80Vdc MLytic HC

https://www.partsconnexion.com/MUNDORF-70412.html

$100.41 each ($301.23)

 

3 pcs.

VCAP ODAM - 0.1 uF

https://www.v-cap.com/odam-capacitors.php

$53.74 each ($161.22)

 

I am trying these as well now - https://www.mundorf.com/audio/en/shop/cables/mconnect_clg/Presskabelschuh-M6-Ring-Kupfer/?card=4081

 

All that stuff can be made in a way that does not require soldering. For example, the capacitors look like this with screws on top:

With the right pre-terminated cables you can just use a screwdriver to connect it.

We can pick an IEC inlet that looks like this (and does not require soldering):

 

I think we can design this whole thing so even people who can't solder anything can put it together. Obviously, there will be a lot of pictures, explanations, and disclaimers. You would need the connecting wires (with pre soldered connectors).

BTW, I did not pick these components with the agenda to make a solder-less unit. They just sounded best, and the screw connections were a bonus.

 

I've picked the wiring too. But it's a wire that is not available on the consumer market, so I'll have to figure out how to make it more accessible. The Mundorf silver/gold wire is also an option for cost no object units/

 

If I were you, I would not be in a rush to get all the parts now. We may arrange a group order with some discounts. I am looking at that. I may even provide the entire kit with everything needed and detailed instructions. Or get someone else to do that. Also, there is a small chance that I may replace some parts in the last minute (be aware of that!), especially with the plan "B" rectification. I also have a plan Z in mind to test - tube rectification :). Yes, I am serious, but that's not a priority. 

 

All in all, I think we are looking at around $1,000 for the unregulated LPS. Not bad at all for how good this thing sounds with the Taiko ATX. Keep in mind this is designed and voiced with the Taiko ATX. You can try it on a HDPlex DC to DC ATX if you like but it's not a regulated LPS and you can't feed your computer directly with this.

 

I am also testing a 3rd option that would be a cost no object solution. More to follow on that. 

 

The cool thing about these 3 options is that they share the same parts and one can start with option 1 then go to option 2 and then to option 3 with. No wasted parts in the upgrade process, we are just adding more parts as we go up the ladder. Option 2 uses all the parts from option 1 and adds some more parts. Option 3 would use all the parts from option 2 and add some more. 

 

Give me a little bit more time to finish testing and I will share the final configs. As usual, it's DIY so feel free to experiment. No need to stick to my recipe, but it might be a good start. 

[matthias]

On 1/11/2021 at 9:00 PM, Nenon said:

On the dual Xeon, I tested two 600VA transformers and some 300VA - 400VA ones. When it comes to audio I like to overbuild everything. It came as a big surprise to me that a smaller transformer sounded better. I found the sweet spot to be between 300VA and 400VA - a bit more than 300VA but less than 400VA. The transformer quality matters a lot as well, so in some cases I did not compare apples to apples. It actually took some extra work to make the big transformers sound good. Go figure...

Emile is trying to supply the transformer I liked. It would work really well on the dual Xeon build. 

 

Nenon,

 

did you find the perfect transformer wattage for the unregulated PS with the Taiko ATX?

 

Thanks

 

Matt

[Nenon]

8 minutes ago, matthias said:

did you find the perfect transformer wattage for the unregulated PS with the Taiko ATX?

 

Yes, I tested many transformers and picked the one I liked the best. Emile placed a large order of them (there was a significant minimum order he had to do), and they are due soon. 

[Marcin_gps]

@Nenon 

 

Last 30 pages where overwhelmed by Taiko DC-ATX.  And AS being a public forum and place for discussion, I do not see anything inaproprate to inform users about the features of a new product such as OPTIMO ATX in this thread. 

 

I don't know how did you get the OPTIMO 3 DUO in your hands as you have not bought one and I have not shipped one to you for testing. I can't vouch for 2nd hand units. 

 

Regarding the power supply used in Taiko SGM Extreme and the lack of Taiko response, plus the fact that Taiko removed @matthias question in the official Taiko Extreme thread is enough for me to draw conclusions. 

 

I attach 2 screenshots from Taiko Extreme official thread for everyone to see.  1st screen shows @matthias question and Taiko reply. After a  while @matthias  question was removed from the Taiko Etreme official thread  which is proven by 2nd screenshot. 

 

Best regards,
Marcin Ostapowicz
JPLAY & JCAT Founder

 

 

1.

 

2.

[auricgoldfinger]

@Marcin_gps My observation is there are better ways to advertise and market your products than the way you have been carrying on here.  These last few pages are really a bad look for you.

[Marcin_gps]

I am an enthusiast similar to @Nenon and my affiliations are clear. I also pay advertisement fee. 

 

I will start my own topic where everyone is welcomed to discuss any products. 

[MarcelNL]

@Nenon Are you drawing conclusions based on comparing off the shelve transformers or custom wound transformers?

No criticism, just trying to understand, I'm working with a transformer winder (if that is a name at all) who has a wealth of knowledge and seems capable of hitting the right spot when I tell him what the transformer is needed for. 

I don't have the picture but he wound me some (400H) chokes for my tube amp that likely will run using mercury filled rectifiers, he used paper between each layer, custom anti vibration frame etc etc. Bottom line is, he know how to make a transformer for a specific purpose.

[dminches]

59 minutes ago, Marcin_gps said:

@Nenon 

 

Last 30 pages where overwhelmed by Taiko DC-ATX.  And AS being a public forum and place for discussion, I do not see anything inaproprate to inform users about the features of a new product such as OPTIMO ATX in this thread. 

 

 

The difference is that Taiko Audio was not posting here.  DIYers are.  In addition, you called out one of your competitors by saying what they are saying on their website is false, which is not appropriate especially since you don’t really know.

 

[matthias]

1 hour ago, Marcin_gps said:

Regarding the power supply used in Taiko SGM Extreme and the lack of Taiko response, plus the fact that Taiko removed @matthias question in the official Taiko Extreme thread is enough for me to draw conclusions. 

 

I attach 2 screenshots from Taiko Extreme official thread for everyone to see.  1st screen shows @matthias question and Taiko reply. After a  while @matthias  question was removed from the Taiko Etreme official thread  which is proven by 2nd screenshot. 

 

I want to confirm that I myself removed this post and NOT Taiko Audio.

Taiko Audio was in no way involved in my decision to remove it.

@Marcin_gps please stop to spread false assumptions.

 

Matt

 

 

 

[Exocer]

Getting back on track:

 

I have decided to give this setup a few days to settle in before providing detailed thoughts.

 

What I will say is this certainly does sound different than 19v + 12v (to EPS) and I do not know how much of that difference comes from the use of the Ghent cable. This is an apples to oranges comparison so take from it what you will :). Is it a good or bad difference? I do not think it is fair to say just yet.

 

One thing is for sure, the 19v 10A SR7T can peacefully provide stable power to a full ATX motherboard, CPU, Optane drive, NIC, USB card without a hitch.

 

Will share more details in the coming days.

 

Cheers,

-Rob