Building a DIY Music Server

[Nenon]

17 hours ago, Soul Analogue said:

200w is enough if you consider it is only the cpu(s) that draws power…

but in fact many user, like my friend vhs here, on top of having dual xeon, also use dual optane Pcie, and other add on cards….300w is just barely enough… not to mention we need dynamics swing for music to sound good

 

Just did some measurements on my dual CPU server, which also has a PCIe Optane 900P card, a USB PCIe card, and an Asus Hyper card with two Intel 665p SSDs installed. 

It draws 65 Watts from the wall when idle.

It draws 95 Watts from the wall when playing music.

 

I saw it close to 200 Watts on a couple of occasions while booting... pretty sure that choke was saturated at those times. If that was what I was seeing while playing music, I would be very concerned about the choke I am using. But at 65/95 Watts, I am not concerned at all. 

 

That's not to say the more power, the better. I like everything overkill in audio :). The problem is that every choke has a different sound. If we change it with a more powerful one, we'll get more power but the sound will change. The question is will that give us a net positive result? I am quite happy with the two versions of the unregulated LPS. I spent quite a few months testing and listening. There were a lot of problems to solve (i.e. ringing, overshooting, etc.) and a lot of parts to test. And the best part - all shared for people to do as a DIY project. 

 

I remember that dual Xeon server drawing 250-270W from the wall when I was using a regulated linear power supply and running Euphony. Talk about efficiency improvement! 

 

5 hours ago, Soul Analogue said:

Yes
send me a message if anyone is interested… 

I would be interested to try your design too. Quite like the idea of building a custom choke for this. 

 

[MarcelNL]

At least the heat pipes I have are filled with fluid ( I assume water) and are sealed, filling with sand is no option yet the copper is very soft ( and I assume pretty pure  based on that and its color)

Will try bending them around a core for a coil I'm making good to hear how others managed!

 

 

I now have 2 300W heatsinks waiting to be mounted , next step will be my PSU...there are some plans for an unregulated Choke filtered design to provide 12V...the tricky bit is going to be keeping the voltage stable under peak load.

 

From what I hear that first cap before the choke is equally important for sound as the choke, well everything matters as mentioned before by others.

 

 

 

 

[Downtheline]

1 hour ago, Raypok said:

From what I understand the heat pipes for CPU cooling is airtight and they have sealed both end to protect chemical inside from leaking.

Agreed on this. They are filled with a fluid that boils, then moves to the cool side and condenses, this is how heat is transferred. The base of cpu cooler that neon designed is also not solid copper but also filled with fluid, this greatly improves the efficiency of heat transfer and is why it could not be soldered to the cpu cooler portion that fits the cooling pipes.

[rico25]

19 hours ago, Exocer said:

You could perhaps use it to power the JCAT Femto USB card down the line.

... and could perhaps use the other rail to power the CPU :)

[NanoSword]

19 hours ago, ASRMichael said:

I think this answered the question 50 posts ago. 
 

https://audiobacon.net/2021/08/06/the-worlds-best-audiophile-linear-power-supplies/2/?amp=1

 

DC4 is technicaly superior – by a large margin. Imaging, depth, soundstage, contouring, detail. The Optimo 3 has more of a “coating” for easy listening.

He seems to prefer Fidelizer Nikola2 I've never heard about it .

[ASRMichael]

31 minutes ago, NanoSword said:

He seems to prefer Fidelizer Nikola2 I've never heard about it .

Also DC4 technically superior against Fidelizer. What technically superior means in terms of SQ who know, could just be construed as specification. Who knows?

[NanoSword]

https://audiobacon.net/best-audiophile-power-supplies/

 

[Peter Avgeris]

Hi there!

I see that a lot of discussion still goes on, regarding the sound of the P/S chokes.

What I would like to state is that chokes DO have a major influence on sound, besides of course the electrical characteristics.

It is not possible for the end user to judge whether a choke has been properly designed or not.

Contrary to what everybody here thinks, the influence has little to do with the current/amperage requirements/capabilities. Vast majority of its contribution relates to a myriad of parameters that are taken into consideration at an early stage, when the choke is designed.

You cannot infer anything by just plugging and measuring.

E.g. the behavior in the frequency domain is so critical, the behavior under different loading conditions, the excitation of the ferromagnetic material, the composition of the ferromagnetic material itself, the tempering of the alloy... I have been designing and manufacturing chokes (and amps in general) for the most demanding audio aficionados and know very well what I'm writing here. Try not to spend a fortune on chokes like this, as they are mostly badly designed/executed. Just plain 'n cheap solutions is the safest all-around way to go.

Just my two cents...

 

[Mags]

"From what I hear that first cap before the choke is equally important for sound as the choke, well everything matters as mentioned before by others."

 

Even better is putting the choke first after the rectifier. I use choke input supplies everywhere, much smoother power delivery than cap input. Try it some time.

[Mags]

This is the separate power supply for my DAC/Preamp. All choke input. High voltage transformer and 274B rectifier tube not shown as they are on the top plate.

 

[Mags]

Here's the DAC/Preamp with the lid off. 

 

[Mags]

Here's why choke input supplies sound better. Look at the current from the rectifier in a choke input supply (left) versus cap input (right) and remember, sharp changes in current produce high frequency noise. Choke input supplies also have better voltage regulation than cap input. The drawbacks of course are size, weight and cost, but we're after the "best" sound, right?

[Peter Avgeris]

Without any intention to conflict your statements, it would be good to know that the choke input solution for designing power supplies is the most simple path you can follow on order to absolutely ruin the sound of your active stage. It may take you one minute, hour, day, year or whatever in order to realize that choke input design is your warranty to sound devastation. 

[auricgoldfinger]

6 minutes ago, Peter Avgeris said:

Without any intention to conflict your statements, it would be good to know that the choke input solution for designing power supplies is the most simple path you can follow on order to absolutely ruin the sound of your active stage. It may take you one minute, hour, day, year or whatever in order to realize that choke input design is your warranty to sound devastation. 

 

Is there a problem with your website?  The link in your signature doesn't work for me.

[Mags]

6 minutes ago, Peter Avgeris said:

Without any intention to conflict your statements, it would be good to know that the choke input solution for designing power supplies is the most simple path you can follow on order to absolutely ruin the sound of your active stage. It may take you one minute, hour, day, year or whatever in order to realize that choke input design is your warranty to sound devastation. 

Thanks, Peter. I invite you to come listen to the devastation I have wrought in my system if you're ever in New Jersey. Such devastatingly beautiful sound.

My amps are also all choke input, two stage, direct-coupled, SET. 2.3kV on the big output tube plate. Have a look:

 

[Exocer]

26 minutes ago, Mags said:

Thanks, Peter. I invite you to come listen to the devastation I have wrought in my system if you're ever in New Jersey. Such devastatingly beautiful sound.

My amps are also all choke input, two stage, direct-coupled, SET. 2.3kV on the big output tube plate. Have a look:

 

Happy to find an Audiophile in the tri-state area! Nice setup 😎

[Mags]

4 minutes ago, Exocer said:

Happy to find an Audiophile in the tri-state area! Nice setup 😎

Thanks! I'm usually on DIYAudio in the TubeDIY forum but I'm interested in upgrading my source to a SOTA music server, so I'm here browsing and learning. 

I'm in Central NJ in the Somerville/Bridgewater area.

[Exocer]

9 minutes ago, Mags said:

Thanks! I'm usually on DIYAudio in the TubeDIY forum but I'm interested in upgrading my source to a SOTA music server, so I'm here browsing and learning. 

I'm in Central NJ in the Somerville/Bridgewater area.

Youre certainly in the right place! It truly is astonishing how much improvement can be obtained by upgrading one's source. I'm Manhattan based.

 

Cheers,

-Rob

[realDHT]

13 hours ago, Mags said:

Thanks, Peter. I invite you to come listen to the devastation I have wrought in my system if you're ever in New Jersey. Such devastatingly beautiful sound.

My amps are also all choke input, two stage, direct-coupled, SET. 2.3kV on the big output tube plate. Have a look:

 

Looks like tube DIY on the highest level, impressive :)

 

The power tubes are beasts😮 , what tubes are those, and what output transformes do you use, are they custom-wound? 

 

BTW I agree 100% that choke input is generally better, because of the reasons you posted. Me too have used chokes this way in almost all my designs and builds for the last 20-25 years or so.    

[Mags]

36 minutes ago, realDHT said:

Looks like tube DIY on the highest level, impressive :)

 

The power tubes are beasts😮 , what tubes are those, and what output transformes do you use, are they custom-wound? 

 

BTW I agree 100% that choke input is generally better, because of the reasons you posted. Me too have used chokes this way in almost all my designs and builds for the last 20-25 years or so.    

Thanks.

Those are 833C transmitter tubes, run at 2.3kV plate voltage and 160mA plate current. I get about 200 watts per channel at the onset of clipping, from an SET. I get the SET sound but with the ability to drive big old Infinity RSIIb speakers. The driver tubes are Russian 6E5P tetrodes run as triodes, direct-coupled to the 833C grid. The 833C is a DHT, by the way, as are the UX-201A tubes in my DAC/preamp.

 

The output transformers are amorphous double-C core S-833 units from Monolith Magnetics. Each OPT alone weighs 62lbs. Fine craftsmanship on those OPTs, with virgin teflon interwinding insulation.

Monolith sent me a picture of the OPTs under construction, with an ECC83 tube for reference, before they were potted in their cans:

[RickyV]

This is all beautiful tube amplifier stuff but does any of you DIY amplifier builders have a good stating point idea for a choke first supply for the Taiko?

Choke values, choke manufacturers, capacitance etc. 

[Mags]

18 minutes ago, RickyV said:

This is all beautiful tube amplifier stuff but does any of you DIY amplifier builders have a good stating point idea for a choke first supply for the Taiko?

Choke values, choke manufacturers, capacitance etc. 

Certainly. Download a program called PSUDII (Power Supply Unit Designer II) from Duncan Amps. It is a simple to use simulator (much simpler than Spice, for example) that is invaluable in designing power supplies. You can swap in different values of caps, chokes, resistors, rectifiers, current draw, etc. and see which give you the best response to current steps without ringing or sagging.

I wouldn't design a supply without it.

 

http://www.duncanamps.com/psud2/

 

[RickyV]

15 minutes ago, Mags said:

Certainly. Download a program called PSUDII (Power Supply Unit Designer II) from Duncan Amps. It is a simple to use simulator (much simpler than Spice, for example) that is invaluable in designing power supplies. You can swap in different values of caps, chokes, resistors, rectifiers, current draw, etc. and see which give you the best response to current steps without ringing or sagging.

I wouldn't design a supply without it.

 

http://www.duncanamps.com/psud2/

 

i already had that s.w. but kept getting some sort of error so I left it.

I’ll give it another go, thanks.

[realDHT]

1 hour ago, RickyV said:

This is all beautiful tube amplifier stuff but does any of you DIY amplifier builders have a good stating point idea for a choke first supply for the Taiko?

Choke values, choke manufacturers, capacitance etc. 

I second Mags recommendation for using PSUD2. One important consideration when designing choke input supplies is that a low current condition gives much higher voltage out, than a high current condition.  So for dynamic loads like computer components you need to make sure that your capacitor(s) and regulator(s) etc. can handle the voltage in the whole voltage range.  

 

You might want to take a look at Hammonds sortiment of high current chokes. I bought the 196M4 and used with both coils in parallel (8A) for my CPU (3700x) power supply. 

https://www.hammfg.com/electronics/transformers/choke/195-196

 

For starting example values for L and C, I attach simulation schematic for my CPU supply (before the regulator) 

 

In this simulation I put a current step from 1A to 8A at time 0.4s in PSUD2. Very useful as you can get some info on the dynamic behaviour. I attach the simulation graphs on the output voltage and the current out from the diode bridge.  

 

 

[realDHT]

The PSU box for my music server (although the CPU choke isn't really visible in this image (it's hidden below the softstart board in back righthand side)