Dev Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 On 5/18/2020 at 6:04 AM, OAudio said: These costs and the price of this server make me smile. I say this with real insight in the area, I have been developing a C621 Intel scalable processor system >3 years now (actually 7 years if you include the research on other audio servers that lead up to this c621 development). can you provide more details on what c621 board are you using and what cpu, chassis, cooling, power supply, etc ? Link to comment
The Computer Audiophile Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 Hi Guys, just a friendly reminder that if you are in the industry, sell audio components, or have a financial interest in anything you're talking about, your company should be mentioned in your signature. jabbr 1 Founder of Audiophile Style | My Audio Systems Link to comment
OAudio Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 2 hours ago, lmitche said: Here is a two year old article discussing the difference between the Intel and AMD clock implementations. https://www.anandtech.com/show/12678/a-timely-discovery-examining-amd-2nd-gen-ryzen-results It is clear that the OS and BIOS configs have a big role in determining which clock is used. It looks like the industry is moving to TSC clocks onboard the processor chip. My AMD motherboard running Audiolinux shows the TSC clock is used, which is a clock onboard the Ryzen 7 2700 processor chip, so the PCH is not used. In my case the PCH is disabled. #cat /sys/devices/system/clocksource/clocksource0/current_clocksource tsc I'm reading up in the background to try to come up to speed a bit with the AMD stuff :-) HPET discussed in the the linked article and TSC are event timers (circa 1ms upwards) that are referenced to a physical oscillator (either PCH attached for Intel or internal to the CPU for AMD). So I get that this is CPU attached in your system. If I understand, I guess your saying that in your system PCIe attached devices (USB and Network) are direct channels to the CPU, you have no storage attached via PCH Sata as well and the TSC timer is integrated onto the processor. Very neat :-) Is there a mode that can explicitly shut down the PCH on this type of AMD system ? I'm just thinking that the PCH will still be live and there will be some traffic between it and the CPU, just not much in the case of you set up. OAudio Ltd. OAudio Supreme - music server. OAudio RealStream - digital audio components. Link to comment
taipan254 Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 2 hours ago, lmitche said: https://www.anandtech.com/show/12678/a-timely-discovery-examining-amd-2nd-gen-ryzen-results It is clear that the OS and BIOS configs have a big role in determining which clock is used. It looks like the industry is moving to TSC clocks onboard the processor chip. This was a really interesting read. In particular, I was struck by the description that HPET forced on in the OS for intel based systems increased latency but reduced errors. Is it wrong for me to extrapolate that, in the context of audio processing, that forcing HPET on in the OS would result in higher latency but less variation in latency given fewer errors? This seems to be true for both AMD and Intel (see below). If so, this would correlate with @ray-dude's findings that he presented in part two of his SGM Extreme review. Lastly, if true, this reasoning would indicate you would want HPET on. @lmitche, what am i missing here? I have an old AMD system running AL. I'll mess around tonight with my settings and see if I can spot any differences. Link to comment
lmitche Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 1 hour ago, OAudio said: Is there a mode that can explicitly shut down the PCH on this type of AMD system ? I'm just thinking that the PCH will still be live and there will be some traffic between it and the CPU, just not much in the case of you set up. Yes, some AMD motherboards have a entry in the BIOS to disable the PCH. Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio Link to comment
lmitche Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 1 hour ago, taipan254 said: This was a really interesting read. In particular, I was struck by the description that HPET forced on in the OS for intel based systems increased latency but reduced errors. Is it wrong for me to extrapolate that, in the context of audio processing, that forcing HPET on in the OS would result in higher latency but less variation in latency given fewer errors? This seems to be true for both AMD and Intel (see below). If so, this would correlate with @ray-dude's findings that he presented in part two of his SGM Extreme review. Lastly, if true, this reasoning would indicate you would want HPET on. @lmitche, what am i missing here? I have an old AMD system running AL. I'll mess around tonight with my settings and see if I can spot any differences. You are not missing a thing. Please let us know how your experiment with clocksource goes. Larry Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio Link to comment
OAudio Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 3 hours ago, Dev said: can you provide more details on what c621 board are you using and what cpu, chassis, cooling, power supply, etc ? I may start a separate thread. Neons build is following a different and interesting route so I think it would get confusing and unfair to get into detail here. OAudio Ltd. OAudio Supreme - music server. OAudio RealStream - digital audio components. Link to comment
Dev Posted May 20, 2020 Share Posted May 20, 2020 23 minutes ago, OAudio said: I may start a separate thread. perfect. Thank you. Link to comment
Popular Post Nenon Posted May 25, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted May 25, 2020 Asus SAGE / dual Xeon CPU passive cooling Below is what I did to passively cool the dual Intel Xeon Silver 4210 CPUs in the Asus SAGE motherboard. I could not find a solution to passively cool the Intel Xeon Silver 4210 CPUs. Streacom, HDPlex, and some of the other common passive computer chassis do not provide a solution for LGA3647 sockets. Also, most of them are limited to 65W TDP or 95W TDP. Cooling down two 85W TDP CPUs is quite challenging. Turemetal UP10 looks like a really nice case, but the ASUS Sage motherboard (12'' x 13'') does not fit inside according to their specs. And even if it could fit, the mounting on the LGA3647 sockets is very unique. You need very precise parts to be able to mount the CPU without damaging anything. The first thing I did to get started was to buy 2 x Noctua NH-D9 DX-3647 4U CPU coolers. Those are active CPU coolers, but I wanted to make sure everything was working properly. The motherboard posted, both CPU tested well, so I started looking for a way to do the passive cooling. The LGA3647 comes in two variations - narrow and square. The Asus SAGE motherboard uses the square version. After some research, ordering some parts, returning some, I decided to use the Dynatron B9 CPU cooler as a base. This is how it looks - top and bottom: We don't need the fan, so that can be removed. But we need the mounting mechanism for the socket. After removing the fan, we end up with a heatsink that can be used as a base. The surface area on those Xeon Silver CPUs is much larger than a typical consumer CPU such as Intel Core or AMD Ryzen. I would need two HDPlex passive cooling kits to cover one CPU. I ended up getting four HDPlex H5 chassis for this project. An explanation of the process with pictures follows below. I started removing some of the material to make space for the HDPlex cooling kit. Now we have enough space for the copper HDPlex cooling block. We need the surface to be as smooth as possible. Sanded with 400 grit sandpaper, followed by 600 grit, 1000 grit, and 2000 grit. I used wet sandpaper from an auto parts store and some soap water. Here is the result. I did a little more fine sanding and polishing to prepare the surface. It's now ready to install the 2 HDPlex copper blocks. They fit perfectly. My research time was well worth, and the Dynatron B9 looks like the perfect solution. The next big research was on thermal epoxy. I needed to glue the two HDPlex copper blocks to the B9 with glue that would transfer the heat from one material to another as efficiently as possible. I picked the MG Chemicals 834HTC-A High Thermal Conductivity Epoxy for that. Cleaned the surface with 90% alcohol, let it dry, and applied a thin layer of the epoxy. I used two heavy duty clamps and let the epoxy cure in my oven on a low temperature for a few hours. All done with that part. Here is the final result. I repeated the same process for the second CPU. With two in place, it's time to install them. Here comes the second problem. No passive cooled chassis is designed to cool two CPUs. The HDPlex H5 (and most others) has two heatsinks, and typically only one is actually used for CPU cooling. The idea is to use one heatsink for each CPU. In order to do that, I had to buy new cooling pipes, a pipe bending tool, and learn how to bend them. I had to do some reading on cooling pipes, learn how they work, learn about the different designs, different materials, etc. I did not know any of that stuff before this project. There are quite a few things to consider - the shape, the materials, the quality, how you bend them, etc. They are filled with liquid and you can't cut them. Also, you have to be careful not to crack them when you bend them. The bending radius can impact the performance. They come in different lengths and some are better quality than others. I liked the products a company called "Advanced Thermal Solutions" makes. Bending pipes is a skill that I need to practice more. Here is my first attempt - looks ugly but it worked great. The CPU on the top uses the stock HDPlex cooling pipes. The CPU on the bottom with the six longer ugly-bended pipes is what I did. To my surprise when I turned on the computer, I realized that the bottom CPU's temperature is lower than the top CPU. One was in the low 40's after a couple of days of playing music and the other was in the high 40's. That's degrees Celsius obviously. We have to be careful with a dual CPU configuration, because one CPU could be hotter because it is doing more than the other. I made sure that was not why the top CPU was a few degrees hotter. I decided to replace the stock HDPlex cooling pipes with new ones. I did much better job with the bending, but I don't have a picture handy. You will have to trust me on that one :). One problem with the HDPlex cooling kit is that the pipes are short and don't cover the entire cooling block. I'll refer to this post for more info / picture: On 2/28/2020 at 2:18 AM, StreamFidelity said: The HDPLEX package included quite valuable copper bars and blocks for passive cooling. By replacing the stock cooling pipes I had the chance to use longer pipes and cover more surface. Not sure if the cooling pipes I used are better than the stock HDPlex or it was because they covered more surface area, but I saw about 7-8 degrees lower temperature with the new pipes. I am guessing it's both - better quality pipes and more surface area. In fact, now the top CPU is about 1-2 degrees cooler than the bottom CPU. The thermal epoxy also takes about a week to 10 days to settle completely. It gets more efficient over time. Overall quite happy with the result. CPUs stay in the 40's depending on room temperature. It is 84F degrees in Chicago today, and I saw them running as hot as 49C. I'll go deal with my A/C now that I am done with this post. Dev, Blackmorec, austinpop and 21 others 6 15 3 Industry disclosure: Dealer for: Taiko Audio, Aries Cerat, Audio Mirror, Sean Jacobs https://chicagohifi.com Link to comment
adamaley Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 Good stuff. Thanks for sharing. Link to comment
Peter Avgeris Posted May 25, 2020 Share Posted May 25, 2020 Just to add my two cents. I am a mechanical engineer with too much experience in metal works. The idea of having a copper base (Dynayron) and on top two copper bases is far from ideal. You should have made two new copper bases on the milling machine with mounting mechanism for 3647 square ILM socket. It is so simple. And glueing the top two copper plates does not make sense in the engineering language. All the rest seems to be really well executed. The final judge is the final result and it seems to be good. Congrats. Design & Manufacture of High Fidelity Audio Equipment http://www.exoticaudiodesign.com/ Link to comment
Popular Post dminches Posted May 25, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 25, 2020 31 minutes ago, Peter Avgeris said: Just to add my two cents. I am a mechanical engineer with too much experience in metal works. The idea of having a copper base (Dynayron) and on top two copper bases is far from ideal. You should have made two new copper bases on the milling machine with mounting mechanism for 3647 square ILM socket. It is so simple. And glueing the top two copper plates does not make sense in the engineering language. All the rest seems to be really well executed. The final judge is the final result and it seems to be good. Congrats. Maybe I haven't kept up with the trend but who has a milling machine? Altec, auricgoldfinger and Dev 3 Speakers: Vandersteen Model 7s, 4 M&K ST-150Ts, 1 VCC-5; Amplification: 2 Vandersteen M7-HPAs, CI Audio D200 MKII, Ayre V-6xe; Preamp: Doshi Audio Line Stage v3.0; Phono Pre: Doshi Audio Phono Pre; Analog: Wave Kinetics NVS with Durand Telos composite arm; SME 3012R arm, Clearaudio Goldfinger Statement v2; Reel to Reel: Technics RS-1500; Doshi Tape Pre-Amp; Studer A810, Studer A812, Tascam BR-20; Multi-channel: Bryston SP-3; Digital: Custom PC (Sean Jacobs DC4/Euphony/Stylus)> Lampizator Pacific Link to comment
Popular Post Downtheline Posted May 25, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 25, 2020 16 minutes ago, Peter Avgeris said: It is so simple. you have a customer!!! I'll buy one you make to replace the DIY I am also trying. I think multiple people on this forum would be interested, and could help recoup development cost!! Looks like Taiko made their own - they didn't respond to a purchase request though. Nenon used epoxy to join the H5 heat sink to the dynatron vapor chamber, rather than to a simple copper base it seems. I think it is an elegant solution, short of making a new heat sink assembly for the socket. I think soldering the h5 heats sinks to the dynatron vapor chamber base would work, but one would need to be careful not to overheat the vapor chamber - this seems to take some experience and skill, different than the surgical skill I posses. I am trying to adapt a narrow ILM 3647 socket to the H5 case, it is rotated 90 degrees in orientation to the case as compared to the ASUS Sage motherboard. Peter, please keep that in mind when designing your new heat sink assembly!!! 😉 Iving and StreamFidelity 1 1 Link to comment
Popular Post Nenon Posted May 26, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted May 26, 2020 2 hours ago, Peter Avgeris said: Just to add my two cents. I am a mechanical engineer with too much experience in metal works. The idea of having a copper base (Dynayron) and on top two copper bases is far from ideal. You should have made two new copper bases on the milling machine with mounting mechanism for 3647 square ILM socket. It is so simple. And glueing the top two copper plates does not make sense in the engineering language. All the rest seems to be really well executed. The final judge is the final result and it seems to be good. Congrats. It did not feel like I could detach the mounting mechanism from the Dynatron and attach it to another copper base. I was looking to do something like that originally. But it looked quite complex, and I did not want to ruin CPUs and motherboard for $2200. It did look simple at first, but the devil is in the details... The thermal epoxy was a crazy idea of mine, really a shot in the dark... I thought it would be a piece of crap at the end but it turned out pretty good. The Taiko Extreme CPUs with their much more sophisticated cooling mechanism are running at low 40s. Their heatsink is giant compared to the HDPlex. It's also made from pure copper. And if you look carefully at the chassis design, the whole chassis acts like a big heatsink. That's not the case with the HDPlex case, but I get some benefit of utilizing the heatsinks on both sides. Having my server running just a couple degrees hotter than the Taiko Extreme with this primitive, almost no tools required, DIY method is a pretty good achievement. I am sure there are many ways to make this better. But since it was that simple, I decided to share as other people may want to try it. I thought the thermal epoxy and the connection between the two copper pieces would be a huge bottleneck. But it seems like the epoxy does a pretty good job. It almost feels like the HDPlex case is the bottleneck at this point. Having said all that, if anyone has a better solution to offer, please let me know. The cooler we can keep our servers, the better. So even if something would bring down the CPU temperature by a couple degrees, I would be willing to try it. I am also considering a DIY chassis with better (bigger) heatsinks that can dissipate more heat. Not ready to go there yet and not sure if it's even needed. But it's probably not that complex to take a pre-made (i.e. power amp) chassis and mill a few grooves for the cooling pipes. Iving, beautiful music, motberg and 1 other 4 Industry disclosure: Dealer for: Taiko Audio, Aries Cerat, Audio Mirror, Sean Jacobs https://chicagohifi.com Link to comment
Dev Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 @Nenon what is your base clock freq the Xeons are running at ? What TDP ? I would say you got a pretty good core temp with DIY - it's not easy feet. My 8 core Xeon hovers in their higher 40's in H5. The HDPlex (and Streacom) side panels _only_ acts like a heat sink. Not the whole chassis unlike Extreme and other professional servers. I got a H5 last week and to my surprise the core temp runs couple of degrees (higher 40's) higher than the Streacom FC9 (lower 40's) I was using earlier, though I have a bigger ATX motherboard but the processor is the same in both case and the same applications running Euphony/Roon. The FC9 has only 4 heat pipes, the H5 has 8 of them. Yes, the 3647 mounts directly on the socket, unlike the 115x but it should not be harder for HDplex (and others) to make the 3647 compatible mount. I forwarded the reference thermal design guide to Lary couple of days earlier and he will be looking into it. https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/guides/xeon-scalable-thermal-guide.pdf Also most of the 3647 boards are bigger than ATX (as you have also noted). Even though some will fit the H5, there is no space for a 400w or 800w DC-DC ATX. So there is a need for bigger chassis as well - more surface area, better cooling, etc. Link to comment
Brianfromspace Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 On 4/15/2020 at 8:56 AM, Nenon said: My new build is: - ASUS ROG Crosshair VII Hero full size ATX motherboard - AMD Ryzen 7 3700X CPU - Apacer ECC RAM - Upgraded motherboard clock with PinkFaun ultraOCXO clock - The new JCAT XE USB card - JCAT NET Femto card - PinkFaun I2S Bridge with ultraOCXO clock - Optane card for the OS - HDPlex H5 Case - HDPlex 800W DC to DC ATX Convertor - Gaia feet - Mundorf Silver Gold DC wire all around - Euphony OS Hi @Nenon, thx for this great thread. It made me stop buying a Innuos server and after reading all 17 pages of this thread yesterday night, I'd like to clone this setup of yours excluding the OCXO clock. I am not experienced with soldering, so this will be a bad idea. I have a couple of questions before I dare to try it out myself: -I understand the other soldering you did was to be able to power the clock/CPU and the 800W from the DC3 unit you have. Are the cables you use also available on the market pre build? If not: are you willing to build and sell me a similar setup (without the one for the clock? It looks awesome and again I don't dare to start soldering on this server myself. (The only option I see w/o soldering is the HDplex 400W ATW LPS, I see a separate connector for the CPU, but I don't know if that means it's powered separately. If your answer to the last question is: no can do, what would you advise me as a power supply for the board/CPU/JcatUSBcard) -Could you tell us the specs on the DC3 unit that makes it ready for this setup? Or should I just contact Custom Hifi Cables as soon as I know what is in my server? -Why didn't you use a fibre PCI card instead of the Jcat Ethernet to eliminate noise from ethernet cables? I will only stream from tidal/roon/EuphonicOS, i'm wondering also how much it matters making the internet input clean. -Why do you use only 8gb or RAM? When booting Euphony from RAM, is this enough? (it says on the Euphony forum, but just checking. Thanks again for all the heavy lifting for us. It would be so cool to build my first ever PC and also a kick-ass one! Greetz, Brian. Link to comment
Peter Avgeris Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 14 hours ago, Downtheline said: you have a customer!!! I'll buy one you make to replace the DIY I am also trying. I think multiple people on this forum would be interested, and could help recoup development cost!! Designing and manufacturing such heat sinks made out from pure copper is nothing that difficult, if you have the right staff to cooperate with. I have this staff here in Athens, so they can make miracles. I have been designing parts like this for decades. Have been designing exotic HiFi amplifiers with much more 'extreme' chassis work than the ones from Taiko Audio. The chassis I now manufacture take years to collect the know how of how to do them properly, it is a combination of extreme machine work and even more extreme man work with one's own hands. But all this is still toyz for little boyz, compared to the craftsmanship, knowledge, design, manufacture and testing required to make parts for Rafale jets and particle accelerator machines (cyclotrons). I have been through these later projects, so guys, please trust me, all this metalwork presented here is nothing. Absolutely nothing. I have no intention to underestimate the work presented here, on the contrary if somebody wants to have the most extreme copper accessories for cooling 3647 sockets, I can surely assist him. It's really nothing that difficult to accomplish. Design & Manufacture of High Fidelity Audio Equipment http://www.exoticaudiodesign.com/ Link to comment
LTG2010 Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 13 minutes ago, Peter Avgeris said: I have no intention to underestimate the work presented here, on the contrary if somebody wants to have the most extreme copper accessories for cooling 3647 sockets, I can surely assist him. It's really nothing that difficult to accomplish. I'm stuck here looking at 2 giant Noctua 14 inch fan coolers, so if you could provide us with a solution you'll have a customer here. The good thing about Nenons solution is that it used the hdplex coolers to raise the pipes above the heatsink (1 side) on the Asus c621 Sage motherboard. I'm not sure that Larry of HDPlex will sell the coolers seperately, meaning the need to buy another 3 cases. Also you can adjust the heat pipes horizontally which make bending them easier, if you are a few mm out you can move the pipes to suit your case before clamping the top on. The Taiko extreme cooler seems designed for that specific case. Link to comment
Nenon Posted May 26, 2020 Author Share Posted May 26, 2020 3 hours ago, Brianfromspace said: It made me stop buying a Innuos server and after reading all 17 pages of this thread yesterday night, Innuos is a great option if you are not into DIY. 2 hours ago, Brianfromspace said: -I understand the other soldering you did was to be able to power the clock/CPU and the 800W from the DC3 unit you have. Are the cables you use also available on the market pre build? If not: are you willing to build and sell me a similar setup (without the one for the clock? It looks awesome and again I don't dare to start soldering on this server myself. (The only option I see w/o soldering is the HDplex 400W ATW LPS, I see a separate connector for the CPU, but I don't know if that means it's powered separately. If your answer to the last question is: no can do, what would you advise me as a power supply for the board/CPU/JcatUSBcard) Ping me on PM on that. I occasionally do some DC cables for members here but don't always have the time. 2 hours ago, Brianfromspace said: -Could you tell us the specs on the DC3 unit that makes it ready for this setup? 21V - 5A for the HDPlex 800W DC to DC ATX 12V - 10A for the CPU / EPS 5V - 3A for the JCAT USB XE 5V - 3A for the JCAT Net Femto 5V - 3A for PinkFaun ultra OCXO clock 2 hours ago, Brianfromspace said: Why didn't you use a fibre PCI card instead of the Jcat Ethernet to eliminate noise from ethernet cables? I will only stream from tidal/roon/EuphonicOS, i'm wondering also how much it matters making the internet input clean. I prefer the JCAT Net Femto in this build. If has better clock and external power. Fiber NICs, such as the Startech PEX1000SFP2 card draw power from the PCIe slot, which generates more electrical noise than an externally powered JCAT NICs. I have found that tweaking my network and adding fiber elsewhere is a better approach and works better for me. Tweaking the network is a whole other topic. 2 hours ago, Brianfromspace said: -Why do you use only 8gb or RAM? When booting Euphony from RAM, is this enough? Yes, it's more than enough in my case. Even 4GB works, but you are too close to the edge. Industry disclosure: Dealer for: Taiko Audio, Aries Cerat, Audio Mirror, Sean Jacobs https://chicagohifi.com Link to comment
Popular Post Peter Avgeris Posted May 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 26, 2020 27 minutes ago, LTG2010 said: I'm stuck here looking at 2 giant Noctua 14 inch fan coolers, so if you could provide us with a solution you'll have a customer here. The good thing about Nenons solution is that it used the hdplex coolers to raise the pipes above the heatsink (1 side) on the Asus c621 Sage motherboard. I'm not sure that Larry of HDPlex will sell the coolers seperately, meaning the need to buy another 3 cases. Also you can adjust the heat pipes horizontally which make bending them easier, if you are a few mm out you can move the pipes to suit your case before clamping the top on. The Taiko extreme cooler seems designed for that specific case. Glad to receive your response. I will assist you as much as I can. I have been using HDPlex chassis for years now. They might not be the absolute best in terms of aesthetics but IMHO they are the best overall by far, above all. First of all, I really can't see any reason for building such monsters for music playback. Music always sounds better with lower power machines, provided the computational power is adequate. Exceptions? Of course: ROON playback software. During the years, it requires more and more power to work properly. More cores but this comes at an expense for sound quality. With an Euphony system, or even JPlay server, I really can't see any point for going that extreme. My Euphony systems never sounded better than what they do now, with only 2 Xeon cores for server and another 2 for the Endpoint (4-core machines, no hyperthreading, no turbo boost, 2 cores suspended from BIOS, no VGA, no SATA/SAS). 8GB of RAM per machine. Roon is another story. But again, if you want that much computational power, you can go for it. Each side of HDplex chassis is more than enough for 1x Xeon 3647 CPU, so a chassis of this type is enough. Taiko audio uses bigger copper heat sink for 2x Xeons, so it might be OK for sure. I do not have in front of me any 2x Xeon 3647 Motherboard. Of course I would need this MoBo physically present into my hands because several other aspects are of paramount importance, eg the capacitors around, the RAM chips, the distance from the heat sinks, etc. If you live in Europe, it is a piece of cake to do all this stuff. If you are located in USA, I am afraid that I can't help you. I can provide you with any pieces you want, specially made for HDPlex chassis and Advanced Thermal Solutions 10mm copper heat pipes design, specially made for HDPlex chassis. If you have manufacturing facilities, then no need to make for you the copper covers, I can send you the drawings if you want. But again, IMHO going that extreme does not really make sense. This is only a personal opinion, don't blame me for this 🙂 Iving, thuandb, jabbr and 2 others 4 1 Design & Manufacture of High Fidelity Audio Equipment http://www.exoticaudiodesign.com/ Link to comment
ASRMichael Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 53 minutes ago, Peter Avgeris said: Designing and manufacturing such heat sinks made out from pure copper is nothing that difficult, if you have the right staff to cooperate with. I have this staff here in Athens, so they can make miracles. I have been designing parts like this for decades. Have been designing exotic HiFi amplifiers with much more 'extreme' chassis work than the ones from Taiko Audio. The chassis I now manufacture take years to collect the know how of how to do them properly, it is a combination of extreme machine work and even more extreme man work with one's own hands. But all this is still toyz for little boyz, compared to the craftsmanship, knowledge, design, manufacture and testing required to make parts for Rafale jets and particle accelerator machines (cyclotrons). I have been through these later projects, so guys, please trust me, all this metalwork presented here is nothing. Absolutely nothing. I have no intention to underestimate the work presented here, on the contrary if somebody wants to have the most extreme copper accessories for cooling 3647 sockets, I can surely assist him. It's really nothing that difficult to accomplish. Peter, sounds like you'd be happy to make custom passive server cases for us? that caters for high heat CPU's? Link to comment
Popular Post Peter Avgeris Posted May 26, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted May 26, 2020 This is my latest machine work for custom copper encasing boxes, with copper plates. They are used inside my 'extreme' tubed phono preamplifier machines. Guys, let's not hyper-emphasing things like these. These are really piece of cake. There exist much more difficult things to make. E.g, the contour shape of the faceplate of my 211 power amplifiers can't be compared to this copper project. You can have a look at the pics attached. jabbr and motberg 2 Design & Manufacture of High Fidelity Audio Equipment http://www.exoticaudiodesign.com/ Link to comment
Peter Avgeris Posted May 26, 2020 Share Posted May 26, 2020 4 minutes ago, ASRMichael said: Peter, sounds like you'd be happy to make custom passive server cases for us? that caters for high heat CPU's? Yes and No. Yes if you are located in Europe. No if you are in USA. I don't want to be drawn into such a terrible trouble with all customs related issues for overseas shipments. For European affairs, yes, I can do it. It is a piece of cake, don't forget this! adamaley 1 Design & Manufacture of High Fidelity Audio Equipment http://www.exoticaudiodesign.com/ Link to comment
Nenon Posted May 26, 2020 Author Share Posted May 26, 2020 32 minutes ago, Peter Avgeris said: First of all, I really can't see any reason for building such monsters for music playback. Music always sounds better with lower power machines, provided the computational power is adequate. Exceptions? Of course: ROON playback software. During the years, it requires more and more power to work properly. More cores but this comes at an expense for sound quality. With an Euphony system, or even JPlay server, I really can't see any point for going that extreme. My Euphony systems never sounded better than what they do now, with only 2 Xeon cores for server and another 2 for the Endpoint (4-core machines, no hyperthreading, no turbo boost, 2 cores suspended from BIOS, no VGA, no SATA/SAS). 8GB of RAM per machine. Roon is another story. But again, if you want that much computational power, you can go for it. @Peter Avgeris It seems like you have no idea how much you are missing and how much better your digital source can be, but I don't have time or the desire to argue about this. If you are happy with your source that is all that matters. 9 minutes ago, Peter Avgeris said: Yes if you are located in Europe. No if you are in USA. I don't want to be drawn into such a terrible trouble with all customs related issues for overseas shipments. For European affairs, yes, I can do it. It is a piece of cake, don't forget this! Some members here (including me) can definitely use your mechanical engineering skills and take you on this offer. I suggest we start a new thread to discuss the options. There are a couple of people in Europe that already have the Sage motherboard and are looking for a passive cooling solution. I will refer them to the new thread. Perhaps someone can send you a motherboard, you can do a prototype, and we can do a group buy from you. Thank you for offering this. It's really good that someone can do a more professional heatsink than my ugly mockup. For those of us in the US, I am sure our European friends will help us. You can ship to them, and they can handle the rest (distribute to the US). 32 minutes ago, Peter Avgeris said: I can provide you with any pieces you want, specially made for HDPlex chassis and Advanced Thermal Solutions 10mm copper heat pipes design, specially made for HDPlex chassis. BTW, the Hdplex uses 6mm pipes. adamaley 1 Industry disclosure: Dealer for: Taiko Audio, Aries Cerat, Audio Mirror, Sean Jacobs https://chicagohifi.com Link to comment
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