Popular Post Nenon Posted May 30, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted May 30, 2020 1 hour ago, ASRMichael said: @Nenon I see you are using HDPlex 800w card again in your build. What benefits are you hearing versus direct connection from SJ LPS? I keep going back and forth. But I mostly use the Hdplex for convenience. My builds typically need 6 rails: - 3 rails for the ATX - 1 rail (high current) for the CPU/EPS - 1 rail the JCAT Net Femto NIC - 1 rail for the digital cart (PinkFain or JCAT) You can either go 6 rails or you can do 4 high quality rails (like @adamaley did with his DC4) that would be: - 1 rail (high voltage) for the HDplex 800W DC-ATX --> feeds the 24-pin ATX connector only - 1 rail (high current) for the CPU/EPS - 1 rail the JCAT Net Femto NIC - 1 rail for the digital cart (PinkFain or JCAT) I can go either way, and I enjoy both. There is something that I like about the 800W DC-ATX when fed by really really good LPS (otherwise I don't). For the ultimate system I would go with 6 high-quality rails. But the 4-rail system is nearly as enjoyable as well. The biggest difference makes the power on the EPS connector and the USB card. Obviously if you feed a Hdplex that feeds 3 rails, you want to have very clean power there as well. beautiful music, austinpop, dminches and 3 others 4 2 Industry disclosure: https://chicagohifi.com Dealer for: Taiko Audio, Conrad Johnson, Audio Mirror, and Sean Jacobs Link to comment
novaca Posted May 31, 2020 Share Posted May 31, 2020 23 hours ago, Nenon said: - 1 rail (high voltage) for the HDplex 800W DC-ATX --> feeds the 24-pin ATX connector only - 1 rail (high current) for the CPU/EPS Do you think that PH SR4(T)-19 (2A) for the HDplex 800W DC-ATX and PH SR5(T)-12 (6A) for CPU/EPS (Xeon E-2136) would suffice? Or should (I have to) think of PH SR7? :( Link to comment
Nenon Posted May 31, 2020 Author Share Posted May 31, 2020 1 hour ago, novaca said: Do you think that PH SR4(T)-19 (2A) for the HDplex 800W DC-ATX and PH SR5(T)-12 (6A) for CPU/EPS (Xeon E-2136) would suffice? Or should (I have to) think of PH SR7? 38 Watts for the ATX and 72 Watts for the EPS would probably work. Around 30W is what most of my motherboards needed to power up (that is 30W feeding the Hdplex 800W DC-ATX). 38W would not give you much headroom for things to power up through the motherboard (i.e. PCIe cards without external power supply, NVME storage, SATA devices, etc.). But it would work with most barebone motherboards from my experience. 72W for the EPS would also probably work if you are not using a lot of processing power. But CPUs are very fast in current demand. Your average current may be something like 30-40W but CPUs tend to create those microburst of power demand that may be higher than double what this LPS can provide. While it would still work, you might be restricting the dynamics. I tend to go with heavily oversized power supplies, especially for the EPS, and that has always sounded better in my system. Industry disclosure: https://chicagohifi.com Dealer for: Taiko Audio, Conrad Johnson, Audio Mirror, and Sean Jacobs Link to comment
novaca Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 Thanks, I get it. It will probably be better to stay with a well-powered NUC for now. Link to comment
MagnusH Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 If you only need ethernet for your audio needs, and use a JCat NET Femto card with external power, will you still get better sound from all the other tweaks? Link to comment
lmitche Posted June 1, 2020 Share Posted June 1, 2020 1 hour ago, MagnusH said: If you only need ethernet for your audio needs, and use a JCat NET Femto card with external power, will you still get better sound from all the other tweaks? Yes, most of the tweaks suggested here are additive. Pareto Audio aka nuckleheadaudio Link to comment
bobfa Posted June 5, 2020 Share Posted June 5, 2020 On 1/16/2020 at 11:46 AM, Nenon said: The server powered up just fine. I had some issues with a defective AsRock motherboard, which I replaced, but I ended up switching to the ASUS as mentioned in one of my previous posts. The ASUS is rock solid. I like it a lot. I did some quick BIOS tweaks for now but will go back there later to dive a little deeper. Basically I disabled everything that is not necessary - Wifi, Bluetooth, audio card, onboard NIC, LED lighting, etc. etc. I made sure the memory is running at 2666, made some tweaks of the CPU performance, disabled fan monitoring and so on. The 32 GB Optane card is mounted on the M.2 slot on the bottom of the motherboard. The BIOS saw it without a problem. I will be using it for the OS later. I booted Euphony from a USB drive. All good! It started playing right away. The CPU temperatures are not bad after playing for several hours: I did not want to transfer the Euphony license yet as it is used somewhere else currently. Plus I needed to contact Euphony support for that. Euphony does not let you install the OS on a hard drive (or Optane card in my case) if you don't have a license. But there is a trick I used. I have described it here: I booted to Audio Linux since I had this USB handy and needed root access. Downloaded the Euphony image and installed it on the Optane card per the instructions from the quoted post above. Removed the USB, rebooted, and all good - Euphony booted from the Optane card. The things I configure in Euphony that make an audible sound quality difference are: Disable the software volume control on the DAC Buffer before play = 100% Use cache Enable ramroot I will go back later and configure CPU isolation, but not now… I configured Qobuz and access to my NAS-based music library and let it play. This computer would have a long burn-in process and will continue to improve in the next 3 months. But I am not done with it. Some finishing touches and more pictures next. Stay tuned. I just booted up my Euphony Optane stick in my newly build AMD Box. IT is up and running and I need to get it license moved. I have only turned off the WifFi and Bluetooth so far. The Apacer RAM seems to be fine. I have an old graphics card I am using that causes a post error and it gets hot. I new cheap one coming to put in for debug and setup. I am sure there is a lot of BIOS tuning and updates to do. I like the LED's. (for now) Asus ROG Chrossair VIII Formula with a Ryzen 3700i. Here is my test bed box. Nenon 1 My Audio Systems Link to comment
Popular Post Nenon Posted June 9, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 9, 2020 Some updates from me below. 1. I completed my tube SET monoblocks a couple of weeks ago. They sound amazing! Even better than they look. The Duelund Cast tinned copper caps are still breaking-in as well as all the Mundorf MTube and MLytic AG capacitors I used but they are 99% there. Add to that, the custom silver wires used throughout, Mundorf silver/gold wire for the power supply, custom transformers, custom chokes, Z-foil resistors, WBT silver connectors, NCF IEC inlets, Grade A Sophia Electric tubes, Grade A Shuguang WE6SN7 PLUS tubes, SR Orange fuses, etc. I used to love my Lundahl output transformers but those beat the shit out of the Lundahls! These monoblocks are something special. They really are a piece of art, and I am very proud of the end result. Sorry for the ugly photo, but that's the best I have at the moment. 2. I am still playing with the Asus Sage build, trying different Optane cards and NVME storage (in RAID0 VROC configuration). It seems like no NAS will be used for this build. It's interesting because the NAS sounded best in my previous builds but not here. 3. The custom Apacer RDIMM memory should be ready next week. Looking forward to try it on the Asus Sage motherboard. Speaking of Apacer, they discontinued the new RAM models that used the 2666MHz Samsung chips as Samsung stopped manufacturing some parts. That's quite unfortunate, as that was the best sounding memory. Here is a list of the older Apacer models (still using the top grade Samsung RAM and still wide range temperature but 2400MHz): ECC DDR4 DIMM 4GB: 75.B93GZ.G000B (recommended for most server builds) ECC DDR4 DIMM 8GB: 75.CA4GZ.G000B NUC DDR4 SODIMM: 75.B93GJ.G010B Hope that helps to those who have not upgraded to Apacer RAM yet. If you can still find it somewhere the ECC DDR4 DIMM 4GB model # D31.23185S.001 is in my opinion the best sounding RAM. Mouser still shows some on backorder, but I highly doubt those backorders would be fulfilled at all. Last note: I did not list non-ECC models, because ECC works (as non-ECC) on most motherboards and sounds better to my ears. 4. I managed to obtain a number of Buffalo BS-GS2016 switches before they disappeared from the market. Some will be used in my system. Some are promised to friends. And I might have some left that I would not need when I finish testing. After the excellent post by @auricgoldfinger about his modified Melco switch with PinkFaun ultraOCXO clock, I am determined to try that on the Buffalo as well. With some luck, my next switch would have the following features: - Modded Buffalo BS-GS2016 - Replaced clock with PinkFaun ultraOCXO powered by a separate 5V rail. - Two-rail Sean Jacobs DC4 LPS powering the switch and clock. - Chassis vibration damping. - Gaia isolation feet. - Possibly a bank of capacitors on the input similar to what Melco does (to be determine if that's an improvement). 5. Not really an update, but I thought the following post might be more useful here: On 6/2/2020 at 12:12 PM, Nenon said: @ASRMichael I suggest we leave the power supply outside of the box. The transformer impacts the sounds in two ways - it generates a lot of EMI and vibrations. Putting a transformer inside the motherboard chassis always degraded the sound quality in my system. I tried this many times and the result was always the same. Actually much more audible than I thought. Even while playing, moving the power supply closer to the motherboard has an audible impact. Based on multiple tests, with different transformers but mainly the Toroidy Supreme, I decided I would never host the transformer in the computer chassis. Somebody was preaching that this is the best way to go in the other thread. I can't disagree more but did not want to argue with him. Adding (good quality) connectors and umbilicals increase the output impedance of the power supply, but the impact of that impedance increase is nowhere near the damage the transformer does when in proximity to the motherboard. Taiko uses a thick plate (looks at least 5 mm, maybe more) and a thick piece of PANZERHOLZ wood to isolate the transformer. That provides both EMI and vibration treatment. I did try a 3 mm plate between the transformer and the motherboard as well as a 25mm heatsink. But I could always hear sound quality degradations to some extent. Positioning the transformer changes the level of impact. With a lot of testing you can find a position (i.e. vertical or horizontal and at a specific angle) where the transformer would have less impact. But you need to do that in a prototype case and then design the case accordingly. Starting with the final version of the case without having the option to make changes after careful testing is not the best way to go if you are to place a transformer inside. That position of the transformer and a thick plate would help with EMI. Vibration isolation also helps. I have even tried putting the transformer on a set of Stillpoint Ultra 6 feet. But I could never get it to the point where there is no impact if the transformer is inside the chassis. I feel like placing the transformer inside the Extreme was a carefully measured compromise. The Extreme chassis is the most expensive part of the server. If they had to make it in two chassis it would add a lot more to the cost and shipping. It would also make the server so big and heavy that it would not fit in many systems. My guess is with careful placement and isolation the overall result was satisfactory at the end. With the transformer outside the chassis, we can do other improvements. For example, if we are talking about a Sean Jacobs power supply, we could host the regulators inside the motherboard chassis and use super short cables for the ATX and EPS connectors. Yes, that is certainly a good idea, but we have another problem - heat. The cooler we keep the power supply and the computer components, the better. They would last longer and sound better. Let's take Sean's DC4 for example, his best LPS. For the amount of current my dual Xeon Asus Sage draws, a DC4 would have to dissipate at least 50W. That would keep the overall temperature of the Turemetal case several degrees higher. I don't think that's a good idea. So for a dual CPU configuration the right balance for me is to keep the power supply external and use good DC connectors and umbilicals. A 65W TDP single CPU system is another story - I would put the regulator inside fot best performance on such system. But a dual CPU build has its own set of challanges that need careful consideration. Having said all that, it might be a good idea to add space (and preferable predrilled holes) for two connectors in the chassis - one for the EPS and one for the Hdplex. Jaeger 536603006 is a good option - Paul Hynes uses them as an optional (XLR) upgrade to his custom dual regulated SR-7. And if you want to go crazy, the Jaeger 533760006 is a monster overkill connector. I use it, and it's the best connector I have seen (don't often look at connectors, so there might be better ones). For those who don't want to use connectors, the two connector openings (holes) can be used to run cables through them. Last thing to say. Accounting for power supply components in the chassis would create a lot of challenges as I don't think we would find 10 people who would like to use the exact same LPS in the exact same configuration. I feel like it would make this project impossible to complete. My recommendation is to stay away from that. Focus on the requirements we already agreed. And if people like my idea about connector holes, let's add that to the wishlist. You need 5 holes for the Jaeger connectors and they are not easy to do manually. That turned out to be a long post - sorry. Finally, the life is getting back to normal in Chicago, and I am planning to enjoy the summer. There will be less frequent updates from me in the next couple of months. But there will be some! StreamFidelity, LTG2010, HeeBroG and 9 others 3 8 1 Industry disclosure: https://chicagohifi.com Dealer for: Taiko Audio, Conrad Johnson, Audio Mirror, and Sean Jacobs Link to comment
auricgoldfinger Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Nenon said: I completed my tube SET monoblocks a couple of weeks ago. They sound amazing! Even better than they look. The Duelund Cast tinned copper caps are still breaking-in as well as all the Mundorf MTube and MLytic AG capacitors I used but they are 99% there. Add to that, the custom silver wires used throughout, Mundorf silver/gold wire for the power supply, custom transformers, custom chokes, Z-foil resistors, WBT silver connectors, NCF IEC inlets, Grade A Sophia Electric tubes, Grade A Shuguang WE6SN7 PLUS tubes, SR Orange fuses, etc. I used to love my Lundahl output transformers but those beat the shit out of the Lundahls! These monoblocks are something special. They really are a piece of art, and I am very proud of the end result. Definitely something to be very proud of. Happy listening! Nenon 1 Link to comment
austinpop Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Nenon said: completed my tube SET monoblocks a couple of weeks ago Nice work! Enjoy them. Nenon 1 My Audio Setup Link to comment
elan120 Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Nenon said: I completed my tube SET monoblocks a couple of weeks ago. They sound amazing! Even better than they look. The Duelund Cast tinned copper caps are still breaking-in as well as all the Mundorf MTube and MLytic AG capacitors I used but they are 99% there. Add to that, the custom silver wires used throughout, Mundorf silver/gold wire for the power supply, custom transformers, custom chokes, Z-foil resistors, WBT silver connectors, NCF IEC inlets, Grade A Sophia Electric tubes, Grade A Shuguang WE6SN7 PLUS tubes, SR Orange fuses, etc. I used to love my Lundahl output transformers but those beat the shit out of the Lundahls! These monoblocks are something special. They really are a piece of art, and I am very proud of the end result. Sorry for the ugly photo, but that's the best I have at the moment. Beautiful work indeed and outstanding selection of components. What would you recommend for power switch and fuse holder? Nenon 1 Link to comment
RickyV Posted June 9, 2020 Share Posted June 9, 2020 1 hour ago, Nenon said: Some updates from me below. 1. I completed my tube SET monoblocks a couple of weeks ago. They sound amazing! Even better than they look. The Duelund Cast tinned copper caps are still breaking-in as well as all the Mundorf MTube and MLytic AG capacitors I used but they are 99% there. Add to that, the custom silver wires used throughout, Mundorf silver/gold wire for the power supply, custom transformers, custom chokes, Z-foil resistors, WBT silver connectors, NCF IEC inlets, Grade A Sophia Electric tubes, Grade A Shuguang WE6SN7 PLUS tubes, SR Orange fuses, etc. I used to love my Lundahl output transformers but those beat the shit out of the Lundahls! These monoblocks are something special. They really are a piece of art, and I am very proud of the end result. Sorry for the ugly photo, but that's the best I have at the moment. 2. I am still playing with the Asus Sage build, trying different Optane cards and NVME storage (in RAID0 VROC configuration). It seems like no NAS will be used for this build. It's interesting because the NAS sounded best in my previous builds but not here. 3. The custom Apacer RDIMM memory should be ready next week. Looking forward to try it on the Asus Sage motherboard. Speaking of Apacer, they discontinued the new RAM models that used the 2666MHz Samsung chips as Samsung stopped manufacturing some parts. That's quite unfortunate, as that was the best sounding memory. Here is a list of the older Apacer models (still using the top grade Samsung RAM and still wide range temperature but 2400MHz): ECC DDR4 DIMM 4GB: 75.B93GZ.G000B (recommended for most server builds) ECC DDR4 DIMM 8GB: 75.CA4GZ.G000B NUC DDR4 SODIMM: 75.B93GJ.G010B Hope that helps to those who have not upgraded to Apacer RAM yet. If you can still find it somewhere the ECC DDR4 DIMM 4GB model # D31.23185S.001 is in my opinion the best sounding RAM. Mouser still shows some on backorder, but I highly doubt those backorders would be fulfilled at all. Last note: I did not list non-ECC models, because ECC works (as non-ECC) on most motherboards and sounds better to my ears. 4. I managed to obtain a number of Buffalo BS-GS2016 switches before they disappeared from the market. Some will be used in my system. Some are promised to friends. And I might have some left that I would not need when I finish testing. After the excellent post by @auricgoldfinger about his modified Melco switch with PinkFaun ultraOCXO clock, I am determined to try that on the Buffalo as well. With some luck, my next switch would have the following features: - Modded Buffalo BS-GS2016 - Replaced clock with PinkFaun ultraOCXO powered by a separate 5V rail. - Two-rail Sean Jacobs DC4 LPS powering the switch and clock. - Chassis vibration damping. - Gaia isolation feet. - Possibly a bank of capacitors on the input similar to what Melco does (to be determine if that's an improvement). 5. Not really an update, but I thought the following post might be more useful here: Finally, the life is getting back to normal in Chicago, and I am planning to enjoy the summer. There will be less frequent updates from me in the next couple of months. But there will be some! wow Nenon really nice work those amps look amazing and judging from the components used they must sound amazing too. Those Duelund caps alone cost at least 220 euro apiece for the smallest one, hope you didn’t need to many of them. I may have mist it before or it slipped my mind but what speakers do they drive? Enjoy the summer sun but hopefully you do not pull a romaz on us. 😃 Nenon 1 Meitner ma1 v2 dac, Sovereign preamp and power amp, DIY speakers, scan speak illuminator. Raal Requisite VM-1a -> SR-1a with Accurate Sound convolution. Under development: NUC7i7dnbe, Euphony Stylus, Qobuz. Modded Buffalo-fiber-EtherRegen, DC3- Isoregen, Lush^2 Link to comment
Popular Post Nenon Posted June 9, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 9, 2020 18 minutes ago, elan120 said: What would you recommend for power switch and fuse holder? I bypassed the power switch completely. The fuse holders, as well as the chassis, and some other parts like their proprietary biasing system, protection board, etc. were provided to me by AudioMirror. These are AudioMirror Reflection 45W SET monoblocks at their cores. If you are looking for an oversized / overbuilt fuse holder (double check its not too big before you order), check those out: https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/schurter-inc/0031.2303/486-1984-ND/641186 https://www.digikey.com/products/en?keywords=0031.2323 23 minutes ago, RickyV said: wow Nenon really nice work those amps look amazing and judging from the components used they must sound amazing too. Those Duelund caps alone cost at least 220 euro apiece for the smallest one, hope you didn’t need to many of them. Using 1 uF Duelunds... two per monoblock 24 minutes ago, RickyV said: I may have mist it before or it slipped my mind but what speakers do they drive? I built The Loudspeaker (TL-1) by Troels Gravesen about 18 months ago, and that has been my reference since then. Needless to say, I went overboard with my OCD. They also use Duelund tinned copper caps as well as Jantzen Amber-Z Caps, Path Audio resistors (not a fan of the Duelund resistors), special wire, WBT connectors, top quality 1.5'' thick baltic birch, etc. They have 18'' woofers. The original design was using DSP and ClassD Hypex plate amps for the 18'' woofers, but I am very sensitive on bass details and definition. After a lot of testing, I settled on passive crossovers and bi-amping. Tried quite a few amplification options, including the Jeff Rowland 625 S2 amps as mentioned in one of my previous posts. But when I heard what those AudioMirror monoblocks did, I could not go back to anything else. That was not a self-intuitive test result. Typically one of the weaknesses of tube amplification is deep base. But I guess 95dB efficient 18'' woofers are a different beast. So, here I am, bi-amping with two sets of monoblocks (4 monoblocks total)!!! The question is what am I going to do in the summer months with those heaters... it was nice and cozy in the winter :). 1 hour ago, RickyV said: Enjoy the summer sun but hopefully you do not pull a romaz on us. 😃 LOL :). The plan for now is not to buy an Extreme, but to work together with the community here, so we can come up with a DIY server that brings us closer to extremes! BTW, one member here just ordered a PANZERHOLZ wood bottom plate for his HDPlex H5 chassis. I am excited to hear what that would do! bit01 and Exocer 2 Industry disclosure: https://chicagohifi.com Dealer for: Taiko Audio, Conrad Johnson, Audio Mirror, and Sean Jacobs Link to comment
Popular Post RickyV Posted June 9, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 9, 2020 23 minutes ago, Nenon said: built The Loudspeaker (TL-1) by Troels Gravesen about 18 months ago, and that has been my reference since then. Needless to say, I went overboard with my OCD. They also use Duelund tinned copper caps as well as Jantzen Amber-Z Caps, Path Audio resistors (not a fan of the Duelund resistors), special wire, WBT connectors, top quality 1.5'' thick baltic birch, etc. They have 18'' woofers. The original design was using DSP and ClassD Hypex plate amps for the 18'' woofers, but I am very sensitive on bass details and definition. After a lot of testing, I settled on passive crossovers and bi-amping. Tried quite a few amplification options, including the Jeff Rowland 625 S2 amps as mentioned in one of my previous posts. But when I heard what those AudioMirror monoblocks did, I could not go back to anything else. That was not a self-intuitive test result. Typically one of the weaknesses of tube amplification is deep base. But I guess 95dB efficient 18'' woofers are a different beast. So, here I am, bi-amping with two sets of monoblocks (4 monoblocks total)!!! The question is what am I going to do in the summer months with those heaters... it was nice and cozy in the winter 😀 Troels, I know his site well so you are a diy speaker builder too. Nice higher efficiency speakers. 👍 Personally I fancy this model http://www.troelsgravesen.dk/Ellipticor-3.htm, first order filtering and no capacitors in the filter and excellent drivers. Nenon and MikeJazz 1 1 Meitner ma1 v2 dac, Sovereign preamp and power amp, DIY speakers, scan speak illuminator. Raal Requisite VM-1a -> SR-1a with Accurate Sound convolution. Under development: NUC7i7dnbe, Euphony Stylus, Qobuz. Modded Buffalo-fiber-EtherRegen, DC3- Isoregen, Lush^2 Link to comment
Ianderson Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Nenon - You mentioned shooting higher than an Innuos Statement, so this unit would sound better? Curiously if you were to produce another, what would one of these cost? Link to comment
Popular Post Nenon Posted June 12, 2020 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 12, 2020 2 hours ago, Ianderson said: Nenon - You mentioned shooting higher than an Innuos Statement, so this unit would sound better? Curiously if you were to produce another, what would one of these cost? Those are two difficult questions to answer. Unfortunately, I can't answer with Yes/No and a dollar amount, so you may not like my answer. There are actually 3 builds in this thread - the Intel Core i9-9900K I started the thread with, another build with a full size ATX ASUS ROG motherboard / AMD Ryzen 7 3700x / ultraOCXO clock on the motherboard, and now the dual Xeon CPU that uses similar hardware as the Taiko Extreme. Those three builds explored 3 completely different CPUs - a consumer Intel, a consumer AMD, and server Intel Xeons. The common thing between all three is the high power CPUs used. That makes them quite different than the Innuos Statement. I don't have a Statement in my system, and I can't really compare. However there are three things I can say: 1. After building several high power servers I can't go back to a low powered server. 2. The digital source is a complex chain of components (hardware, software, power, etc.) that interact in a super complex way. So it's not about what motherboard you use or what CPU. It's the whole chain that matters - everything from the format of the file you are playing all the way to the output to your DAC. There are so many things to consider in between besides what motherboard and CPU you want to use. What files are you playing? Are you streaming or listening to local files? What software are you using? What operating system? What other processes is the OS running? How do those processes interact with your hardware, software, power supply, mains, etc? Where is the OS stored on? Is it running from RAM? What kind of RAM are you using? What is your local files storage strategy? How is your network configured? I can keep going on and on and list hundreds of these questions. That's why a DIY server requires a lot of time for tweaking. If you like doing this, you may be able to tweak a server similar to the builds here to sound better than the Statement. On the other hand, companies like Innuos have done all that R&D already and offer a complete solution. They have integrated all the hardware and software for you. You can buy one and enjoy the music rather than doing constant tweaking. 3. The power supply is the most important part and there isn't much talk about power supplies for these builds (besides the one I showed for the first build, which was only one of multiple power supplies used). You can get a cheap power supply (or two) with one of these builds but you won't be at the level of the power supply on Statement, which has 8 separate rails. Or you can spend a huge amount of money (much more than the computer parts) to get the best power supplies. This would be one of the main determining factors on how a build like these compares to the Statement. So, I guess what I am trying to say is that you can certainly make these builds sound better than a Statement, but that comes with a significant price tag and a lot of invested time. We share a lot of info on this forum, and there are many known DIY recipes that work really well. 2 hours ago, Ianderson said: Curiously if you were to produce another, what would one of these cost? I personally have no plans to build computers for other people anymore. It was a good adventure. I learned a lot from these builds. And the feedback has been priceless. Still planning to continue my own experiments and share them, so other people can try them too. And also continue trying what other people have shared - I have learned a lot from the community here! Those builds are not cheap and take a lot of time. I can say that I did them for fun and not for money, because if I had to charge for all my time spent, they would be more expensive than comercial servers. You can probably have something pretty decent for about $5K. And from there the sky is the limit. I used two of these clocks in one of my builds - they are €1250 each. I also had about $1500-$2000 worth of Mundorf silver/gold wire in that build. Sean Jacobs has a higher spec power supply now than the one he designed for the Innuos Statement - it's £4400 for three rails. The Statement has 8-rails. You do the math. I am not sure what thought process triggered your question. But if you are wondering if someone else can build you a DIY server that sounds better than the Statement and costs less, I don't really know if that's easily achievable. I feel like you can only pick two items from the list below but not all 3: 1. Someone else to build it. 2. Cost is no more than the Statement. 3. Sounds better than the Statement. And lastly don't forget that a DIY server does not have a good resale value and you don't have support and warranty from a well-established company. Sorry for the long answer to what seemed like a simple question. gstew, shahed99, Blackmorec and 11 others 1 10 3 Industry disclosure: https://chicagohifi.com Dealer for: Taiko Audio, Conrad Johnson, Audio Mirror, and Sean Jacobs Link to comment
Exocer Posted June 12, 2020 Share Posted June 12, 2020 Great post Nenon. It helps put things into perspective. I'm wayyyy below $5000 invested into my build so far and I am experiencing a much higher level of sound quality compared to my previous RPi4 + HAT streamer. Sound quality is far beyond what I thought could be achieved with this system and I have yet to invest in endgame cables (I use CableMatters Cat 8, AudioQuest Forrest USB cable). Your build inspired my choice of motherboard. I look forward to improving my build but it will certainly take time and a lot of research. This thread is an excellent wealth of DIY info. @Nenon, have you ever thought of trying GentooPlayer OS? I thought of purchasing a Euphony license and I have a spare Windows 10 Pro license hanging around...but GentooPlayer is free and I truly think it sounds amazing but it is the only OS i've tried on my Music Server (see Sig if interested). Plenty of options are embedded and you get full root access to the OS. I use BubbleUPNP Server with mConnect with great results. Link to comment
Popular Post StreamFidelity Posted June 12, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 12, 2020 @Nenon Thank you for your very interesting considerations. For me, the advantages of DIY music servers are the transparency and the easy interchangeability of the installed components. There are many standards for computers. For example, one USB PCIe card can easily be exchanged for another. Or a RAM memory stick is exchanged for an ECC RAM. I agree that power supply is one of the keys to increasing SQ. Good external LPS are expensive. The nice thing about DIY is that you can start with an inexpensive power supply and later buy a high-quality one - if the budget allows it. Exocer and NanoSword 1 1 Grigg Audio Solutions Owner StreamFidelitys Setup: Sonus Faber Amati Futura | T+A M10 | T+A SDV 3100 HV | fis Audio PC & Server | GigaWatt PC4-EVO+ | JCAT OPTIMO S ATX | FARAD Super10 & Super3 | Keces P8 | Afterdark Buffalo Switch | fis Audio Cables | Solidsteel HJ-3 / HY-A Link to comment
Ianderson Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 @Nenon What a fabulously informative and detailed post - thank you! Where you commented... “I am not sure what thought process triggered your question. But if you are wondering if someone else can build you a DIY server that sounds better than the Statement and costs less, I don't really know if that's easily achievable. I feel like you can only pick two items from the list below but not all 3: 1. Someone else to build it. 2. Cost is no more than the Statement. 3. Sounds better than the Statement. And lastly don't forget that a DIY server does not have a good resale value and you don't have support and warranty from a well-established company. Sorry for the long answer to what seemed like a simple question.” Reading the tread I suspected the builds were will north of 10k in parts. Where I’m coming from is this... I’ve been a strong proponent of Analog, yet my Esoteric spinner has been a good 2nd place. I have a Mac Mini and DAC and never liked the SQ, and it sat. Hearing the Digital has come a long way I borrowed an Aqua La Scala Optologic DAC and the Antipodes Cx / Ex. For the first time digital has pulled deeply into the music. This I can live with, the cost I can’t. I also thinK the digital will improve immensely and that products will depreciate considerably as a result. Therefore buying used appeals. I picked up a decent deal on a almost new Innuos Zen Mkiii and dipped my toes in the waters. It’s no where near the price points of the Antipodes I listened to. This along with my Ayre Codex are just ok, my Esoteric is vastly superior. Important context for me is, the intrinsic market value of the Esoteric is perhaps $1500 these days, and when I put the Innuos / Ayre combo up against it worth perhaps $2700, the Esoteric is better. The other part Is my financial priorities, I’m looking for a used Aqua DAC, that doesn’t leave me with Innuos Statement kind of money. After reading your wonderful tread, I though perhaps I can build something that might get close to the SQ of a Statement (or the Antipodes) for 30% of the cost. By the sounds of it, it will be well higher than that! Link to comment
Ianderson Posted June 13, 2020 Share Posted June 13, 2020 16 hours ago, StreamFidelity said: @Nenon Thank you for your very interesting considerations. For me, the advantages of DIY music servers are the transparency and the easy interchangeability of the installed components. There are many standards for computers. For example, one USB PCIe card can easily be exchanged for another. Or a RAM memory stick is exchanged for an ECC RAM. I agree that power supply is one of the keys to increasing SQ. Good external LPS are expensive. The nice thing about DIY is that you can start with an inexpensive power supply and later buy a high-quality one - if the budget allows it. Agreed, that is a great reason to rationalize going the DYI route! Link to comment
Popular Post RickyV Posted June 14, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 14, 2020 Sorry moving this over to Nenon’s DIY server thread I thought I was in. I narrowed the experiments down to two. One SJ will go inside my nuc case now I know it will fit in there. So the experiment will be with what that regulator will be fed. 1 raw unregulated DC but with CRC capacitor filter like @elan120 has done. 2 the same as point 1 plus an other SJ regulator. These components will be in an external case. I have ask Sean about dual regulation and he told me that one module already has a coupled dual regulating devices. He also said that there is still some quality to be gained by using two modules. We will see what that brings. I have enough AC in my transformer to give each regulator 5v of voltage drop. Also bought 2m of 1mm mundorf silver and gold wire to connect everything 👍. Gavin1977, beautiful music and Nenon 1 2 Meitner ma1 v2 dac, Sovereign preamp and power amp, DIY speakers, scan speak illuminator. Raal Requisite VM-1a -> SR-1a with Accurate Sound convolution. Under development: NUC7i7dnbe, Euphony Stylus, Qobuz. Modded Buffalo-fiber-EtherRegen, DC3- Isoregen, Lush^2 Link to comment
Popular Post Downtheline Posted June 18, 2020 Popular Post Share Posted June 18, 2020 I wanted to give a couple small data points in my server/streamer build. I finally got music last night, but will be dismantling the project soon until I get a new motherboard. -xeon 4210 processor -X11SPM-TPF supermicro mobo -Advantech registered eec 8gb samsung chip ram at 2666. -32gb optane on m.2 for OS. -Pink faun 12s bridge to ps audio DS dac. -etherregen from a wifi extender. Using copper to a rj45 to usb dongle as I can't get the lan adapter recognized. -Power is a single keces p8 at 20v -keces p3 for now powering the pink faun bridge, another one powering the etherregen. - hdplex 800w DC to atx - ghent cables dc and between 800w and mobo - BAV power cables -OS is windows server 2016 (totally not optimized), with jplay. -hdplex h5 gen 2 case - "Nenon" cooling using dynatron B4A heat sink assembly with 2 h5 heat sinks epoxied to the B4A vapor chamber using MG Chemicals 8329tcs thermal epoxy. I found out the hard way that this mobo needs registered ram. Additionally, it seems the mobo is not recognizing the ethernet adapter, so haven't been able to use the fiber sfp modules. Also 1 of the DIMMs is not working.... so I'm replacing the mobo with another supermicro board that uses the c621 chipset. Temperatures are running 35 degrees Celsius at idle and core temps range from 41 to 45 degrees when playing music. I have a temporary usb hdd for local music until my nvme SSD arrives... this works poorly however right now. So I am writing tonight because I am totally intoxicated. By the music. Image height increased by about 3 feet and the sound stage palpably widened. There is a delicious improvement in dynamics and realism. Notes hang. Next steps: replace mobo with supermicro x11SPL-F, add samsung evo plus 1tb ssd to a supermicro AOC-SLG3-2M2 PCIe add on card, find a fiber nic card, optimize windows as best I dare (no experience). Greatly upgrade power supplies with a Paul Hynes sr7t for EPS (need to order), use keces p3 for atx power, switch i2s bridge from p3 to farad3. I. Can't. Wait. To hear what happens with improvements in network, power and OS optimization. Listening to two albums: Gepe, Folclor Imaginario and Moriarty, Gee Whiz but This Is a Lonely Town. bit01, Gavin1977, Nenon and 2 others 1 4 Link to comment
Exocer Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 43 minutes ago, Downtheline said: So I am writing tonight because I am totally intoxicated. By the music. Image height increased by about 3 feet and the sound stage palpably widened. There is a delicious improvement in dynamics and realism. Notes hang. Excellent report. Can you provide details of your previous build for comparison? Thanks Link to comment
Downtheline Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 28 minutes ago, Exocer said: details of your previous build Akasa NUC7i7DNH1E with crucial 8gb DDR4 ram, Gentooplayer, Keces 20v 8amp, matrix X SPDIF-2, Keces P3. Ghent dc cables, USB cable and HDMI cable: wireworld starlight 7 Exocer 1 Link to comment
elan120 Posted June 18, 2020 Share Posted June 18, 2020 1 hour ago, Downtheline said: Can't. Wait. To hear what happens with improvements in network, power and OS optimization. Based on my recent experience, I have a hunch the SQ will take a sizeable step up when the EPS gets fed by a greater quality power supply and quality cables as you continue to upgrade. Enjoy, there is going to be lots fun ahead... Link to comment
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