UpTone Audio EtherREGEN Listening Impressions

[PYP]

26 minutes ago, Rsbrsvp said:

Is it true that Uptone recommends that when using an external PSU that 12V is best- or is this incorrect?

 

I'm not asking for listening impressions- but rather from a technical angle- is there a difference which voltage is used as long as it is between 7-12V?

As per Alex:

"As indicated in the EtherREGEN User Guide—and on the back panel of the unit itself—any +DC voltage in the range of 7~12V is perfectly fine.

The EtherREGEN consumes the same wattage regardless of input voltage. 
The heat does not vary with input voltage.

And—assuming same performance of the power supply at different voltages—the sonic performance of EtherREGEN will be the same from 12V as from 7V."

[Rsbrsvp]

18 minutes ago, PYP said:

As per Alex:

"As indicated in the EtherREGEN User Guide—and on the back panel of the unit itself—any +DC voltage in the range of 7~12V is perfectly fine.

The EtherREGEN consumes the same wattage regardless of input voltage. 
The heat does not vary with input voltage.

And—assuming same performance of the power supply at different voltages—the sonic performance of EtherREGEN will be the same from 12V as from 7V."

Thank you.  Apparently I did need to be corrected....  There is an audiogon review of the ER which claims Alex told the reviewer that 12 V is best.  I will assume PYP has the correct info....

[JohnSwenson]

Since the POWER does not depend on voltage, the CURRENT goes down as the voltage goes up. Getting a supply that can supply all the current needed seems to be far more problematic than getting the higher voltage, so we generally recommend using a higher voltage if you have it available. Not because it is "better" but because you will have a much higher probability your supply will have enough current.

 

John S.

[LowMidHigh]

1 hour ago, JohnSwenson said:

Since the POWER does not depend on voltage, the CURRENT goes down as the voltage goes up. Getting a supply that can supply all the current needed seems to be far more problematic than getting the higher voltage, so we generally recommend using a higher voltage if you have it available. Not because it is "better" but because you will have a much higher probability your supply will have enough current.

 

John S.

 

I'm not verse in the subject matter, but the logic doesn't jibe.

 

If the current goes down as voltage goes up, and our aim is to get enough current, shouldn't we reduce to voltage so the current goes up?

 

 

[Ponkbutler]

27 minutes ago, LowMidHigh said:

If the current goes down as voltage goes up, and our aim is to get enough current, shouldn't we reduce to voltage so the current goes up?

 

It's not that the current goes up, but that the ER will require and draw more current for a lower voltage and the PSU may struggle to deliver it.

[richard_crl032]

and voltage does not create heat ... current does ?

 

[Rsbrsvp]

So at 7V,- the minimum voltage, how many aps are needed from my PSU for optimal functioning?

 

I think my Teddy Pardo is 7V, 2A?

[PYP]

20 minutes ago, Rsbrsvp said:

So at 7V,- the minimum voltage, how many aps are needed from my PSU for optimal functioning?

 

I think my Teddy Pardo is 7V, 2A?

From UpTone's website (EtherREGEN, Other Specifications section):  "DC power input range — 7V/1.4A, 9V/1.0A, 12V/0.8A"

[Rsbrsvp]

Well, I don't totally trust my hearing anymore, but I tried 7V, 9V, and 12V on my ER and to my ears, the sound is a bit different.

 

Maybe I'm dreaming and need to try again, but the dream sounds real.

[Superdad]

4 hours ago, richard_crl032 said:

and voltage does not create heat ... current does ?

 

VERY abbreviated answer:

Heat is WATTS (or BTUs); 

Voltage * Amperage drawn = Watts

If something (a chip, circuit, lightbulb, part, etc) were to be 100% efficient (and everything is far from that!) then all the Watts would be turned into some form of work and there would be no excess heat dissipated.  But there is no such thing as 100% efficient and just the chips doing their normal work get hot.

 

With regards to power supply voltages:

We use linear regulators (13 expensive state-of-the-art integrated ones: LT3042 and LT3045) right next to all the chips--to provide more than 30 voltage feeds at at least 5 different voltages.  To make that possible, we feed each reg (LDOs is what they are called) just about 0.7V above their target output voltage--because LDOs have to have some drop to regulate.  So for each reg, 0.7 * whatever is the current drawn by the parts they are feeding is wattage of heat that reg needs to dissipate into the board.  

The ONLY way to allow for each of those regs to receive a voltage just above their output setting (which will be 5V, 3.3V, 2.5V, 1.8V, 1.2V, 1.1V) while allowing for a single (external) main input voltage feed is to use pre-regulators, in our case specially chosen, very high-frequency, high-efficiency DC-DC switching regulators surrounded by a carefully tuned filter circuit.  You can actually see a whole bunch of DC-DC pre-reg plus LT3042/45 power network blocks all over the EtherREGEN and in several of John's other designs. The measured performance of these blocks is exceptional.

 

Because of our use of the above, wattage (both consumed and dissipated) is constant--about 9.5W--for an EtherREGEN regardless of the input voltage across its acceptable range of 7~12V.

 

I hope the above makes sense and we can move on from here.

--Alex C.

[Mike Rubin]

Alex, that does make sense and I know you want to move on, but it begs this question: with the *LPS 1.2,* is there any reason to run *it* at any particular output voltage?  I believe you suggested that I run mine at 12v, but does it actually make a difference, given that the load won't vary at the powered device?

[Superdad]

18 minutes ago, Mike Rubin said:

Alex, that does make sense and I know you want to move on, but it begs this question: with the *LPS 1.2,* is there any reason to run *it* at any particular output voltage?  I believe you suggested that I run mine at 12v, but does it actually make a difference, given that the load won't vary at the powered device?

 

Hi Mike:

Since wattage drawn by the EtherREGEN is rather constant (a tiny bit more or less depending upon the number of ports in use with activity), that means that as input voltage goes down, current drawn from the external power supply goes up. Hence the ratings you see everywhere for the EtherREGEN of approximately 0.8A @12V, 1.0A @9V, and 1.35A @7V.

So any regulated power supply that can reliably produce at least (or more is okay--I get asked that a lot) constant current at those levels at those voltages will work.

 

Our UltraCap LPS-1.2 can deliver maximum output current of 1.14A--at any of its output voltage settings (5, 7, 9, or 12V).  So you can see that the LPS-1.2 can power the EtherREGEN at either 9V or 12V but not at 7V.  9V is okay, but really there is no need to run the UltraCap at 1.0A when you can run it at 0.8 with a 12V setting. That supply, just like the EtherREGEN, already runs hot enough. 

 

So now everyone knows the origin of any utterance from me about 12V being more appropriate for the EtherREGEN. It is more appropriate for the UltraCap is all...

[PYP]

13 minutes ago, Superdad said:

So now everyone knows the origin of any utterance from me about 12V being more appropriate for the EtherREGEN. It is more appropriate for the UltraCap is all...

Now that my second eR is seemingly fully settled in (fooled me a few times as it continued to cycle toward truly exceptional sound), I hear what a great pairing the LPS 1.2 (at 12 V) and eR are.  In the early going, it may be the awesome bass that attracts your attention, but over time it is clear that all frequencies are improved considerably.  

[Rsbrsvp]

In the last few days, I decided to to something I have NOT done since I got my first ER.

 

I disconnected both ER's and directly connected my ethernet cable from my router to my fanless PC.

 

Why?  I was double checking.  Are we all dreaming?  Is the ER a hoax;- snake oil that does nothing and we are all a bunch of fools?

 

I wanted to recheck and so I compared music with and without my two ER's.  (both ER's have a good PSU and superb OXCO).

 

Conclusion:  WE ARE NOT DREAMING.  WE ARE NOT FOOLS.  The difference is HUGE.  Absolutely HUGE!!!

 

I cannot wait for the next USB version which will employ these technologies because I understand that noise reduction effects are more substantial on the usb than on the network.

 

 

[Gr8tful]

Wow, 54 pages deep on this thread. I'm a little late to the party. My etherregen is hours old. I can report a major upgrade in soundstage layering, width and depth. More 3D. The transient decay can be beautiful. A reduction in harshness and brittleness to the point of satisfaction. I can rock Led Zeppelin albums again. But, it didn't fix the problem that has vexed me for so long. I have a problem with high frequency metal percussion. High frequency cymbals and the like get distorted in time. I stream through roon, DSD, MQA, FLAC, NOS, OS, same problem. Have tried filter, after filter, after filter. Seems album dependent. Do you guys hear high frequency metal percussion junk on these tracks? Ahmad Jamal, Ahmad Jamal's Alhambram (live): Sweet and Lovely? Or Duo Brothers, Cookie Stars: Cookie Stars? Or Hadouk Trio, Utopies: Suave Corridor? HELP!

 

Qnap NAS (roon)>>Asus Lyra Mesh>>EtherRegen>>Mytek Brooklyn Bridge>>Parasound JC5>>Magnepan 1.7i

Power Conditioning: Emotiva cmx-2, Furman P-1800 PFR

Cables: Mytek BB: audioquest water xlr and NRG Z3 ac power cord

             JC5: Furutech FP-S55N w/ FI-48 connectors ac power cord

             Ethernet: DH Labs Reunion Cat8 w/ Linkup Cat8 Connectors 

             Magnepan 1.7i: Audioquest rocket 11 w/ AQ psc jumpers

 

Gr8tful to be an audiophile, and in a place measuring doesn't equate to science. Sheesh. Cheers!

[Gr8tful]

About break in. I did not use the complimentary power cord that came with the etherregen. I used an already broken in power cord. I am Gr8tful to report I had less of the typical break in blues many others reported. Cheers!

[PYP]

2 hours ago, Gr8tful said:

Do you guys hear high frequency metal percussion junk on these tracks? Ahmad Jamal, Ahmad Jamal's Alhambram (live): Sweet and Lovely? Or Duo Brothers, Cookie Stars: Cookie Stars? Or Hadouk Trio, Utopies: Suave Corridor?

Have listened to the Hadouk Trio Utopies several times previously (not my favorite of the Trio, but I enjoy it) and never heard a problem.  Just listened to it now streaming via Roon/Qobuz and it sounded very good indeed, especially for a 16 bit recording.  No frequency anomalies.

 

My first eR took at least a month to settle in to hear 95% of its qualities, but took longer for the high frequencies to even out.  Just my system/room/ears, but if your HF sounded fine before the eR, I suggest you give it longer to settle in/break in.   Have fun.  

[Nikko1960]

5 hours ago, Gr8tful said:

Wow, 54 pages deep on this thread. I'm a little late to the party. My etherregen is hours old. I can report a major upgrade in soundstage layering, width and depth. More 3D. The transient decay can be beautiful. A reduction in harshness and brittleness to the point of satisfaction. I can rock Led Zeppelin albums again. But, it didn't fix the problem that has vexed me for so long. I have a problem with high frequency metal percussion. High frequency cymbals and the like get distorted in time. I stream through roon, DSD, MQA, FLAC, NOS, OS, same problem. Have tried filter, after filter, after filter. Seems album dependent. Do you guys hear high frequency metal percussion junk on these tracks? Ahmad Jamal, Ahmad Jamal's Alhambram (live): Sweet and Lovely? Or Duo Brothers, Cookie Stars: Cookie Stars? Or Hadouk Trio, Utopies: Suave Corridor? HELP!

 

Qnap NAS (roon)>>Asus Lyra Mesh>>EtherRegen>>Mytek Brooklyn Bridge>>Parasound JC5>>Magnepan 1.7i

Power Conditioning: Emotiva cmx-2, Furman P-1800 PFR

Cables: Mytek BB: audioquest water xlr and NRG Z3 ac power cord

             JC5: Furutech FP-S55N w/ FI-48 connectors ac power cord

             Ethernet: DH Labs Reunion Cat8 w/ Linkup Cat8 Connectors 

             Magnepan 1.7i: Audioquest rocket 11 w/ AQ psc jumpers

 

Gr8tful to be an audiophile, and in a place measuring doesn't equate to science. Sheesh. Cheers!

 

LOL, if you are liking the ER, then you need to add the AfterDark clock (see their forum).  I did and it takes the sound to a whole other level.  I bought the Queen version with the matching LPSU, and my only regret was not ordering the Emperor version.  It's that good.

 

I also bought a used UltraCap v1.2 off EBay to power the ER, and that brings a less substantial but nevertheless noticeable improvement.

[Gr8tful]

6 hours ago, PYP said:

Have listened to the Hadouk Trio Utopies several times previously (not my favorite of the Trio, but I enjoy it) and never heard a problem.  Just listened to it now streaming via Roon/Qobuz and it sounded very good indeed, especially for a 16 bit recording.  No frequency anomalies.

 

My first eR took at least a month to settle in to hear 95% of its qualities, but took longer for the high frequencies to even out.  Just my system/room/ears, but if your HF sounded fine before the eR, I suggest you give it longer to settle in/break in.   Have fun.  

Thanks PYP, the problem was there before. ER brought improvements all around the problem. Starting to suspect the converse digital streamer in the BB is the problem. Guess the only way to test that theory is with the optical rendu! Cheers!

[richard_crl032]

8 hours ago, Nikko1960 said:

 

LOL, if you are liking the ER, then you need to add the AfterDark clock (see their forum).  I did and it takes the sound to a whole other level.  I bought the Queen version with the matching LPSU, and my only regret was not ordering the Emperor version.  It's that good.

 

I also bought a used UltraCap v1.2 off EBay to power the ER, and that brings a less substantial but nevertheless noticeable improvement.

ER=🥳🥳  ER+AD=🥳🥳🥳 Not absolutely needing AD but obvious improvement albeit almost 200% more for my double crown. Save $ on cabling in powercord, lps, ethernet cable etc. with stock ones and have an oxco 🙏

[bailyhill]

20 minutes ago, richard_crl032 said:

ER=🥳🥳  ER+AD=🥳🥳🥳 Not absolutely needing AD but obvious improvement albeit almost 100% more for my double crown. Save $ on cabling in powercord, lps, ethernet cable etc. with stock ones and have an oxco 🙏

I agree 100% with Richard here, and found the same thing.  Bought the same Queen unit.  I did use my HDPlex power supply for it.

[richard_crl032]

13 hours ago, Gr8tful said:

 

             Magnepan 1.7i: Audioquest rocket 11 w/ AQ psc jumpers

 

Gr8tful to be an audiophile, and in a place measuring doesn't equate to science. Sheesh. Cheers!

 

Hi Gr8tful,

 

Off topic but cannot help to notice that you are using the nice 1.7i which I had in addition to earlier 1.7 ... fond memories just 2-3 yrs ago.

 

You may wish to consider 100% reversible and worthwhile modification of the crossover made by Humble hifi for me ... 

 

Cheers.

 

Richard

 

 

[Jud]

I've seen more discussion of crossover mods for Maggie 1.7 and 1.7i than perhaps any other speaker, so I'm thinking there's something to this (crossover mod).

 

A crossover is a filter just as you find in a DAC or software player, and has the same sorts of time and frequency based characteristics. Vandersteen speakers are some of the few that use linear phase crossovers, because this comes at the cost of an unavoidable midrange "presence" hump in frequency response. All non-linear-phase crossovers have group delay, which changes the time relationships between frequencies to a greater or lesser extent, depending on the specific crossover design.

 

Another possible solution is DSP specifically to change the timing characteristics of your system's output.

[Superdad]

On 9/11/2021 at 9:19 AM, Jud said:

I've seen more discussion of crossover mods for Maggie 1.7 and 1.7i than perhaps any other speaker, so I'm thinking there's something to this (crossover mod).

Yes, back the day--when we could still obtain the specialized plain films for our film-and-foil MusiCaps (originally at Hovland Company in yellow and then under UpTone in blue)--Madisound used to blast through their Speaker MusiCap stock most months of the values sold to Magnepan modders.

 

[jas]

On 9/10/2021 at 9:04 PM, Gr8tful said:

Qnap NAS (roon)>>Asus Lyra Mesh>>EtherRegen>>Mytek Brooklyn Bridge>>Parasound JC5>>Magnepan 1.7i

Power Conditioning: Emotiva cmx-2, Furman P-1800 PFR

I share no equipment with your system so my remarks have to be limited, with the exception of the Emotiva. If you haven't already, you might try as I did with success, removing it to test the problem area without it. I can't say it specifically improved high frequency edge you're hearing, but it did improve the ease and naturalness in my system of the high frequency reproduction overall. I was always curious if I could identify which piece of equipment removing the Emotiva affected the most, if any, but liked the improvement too much to go back. I moved on to a Topaz Isolation Transformer and didn't look back.