Popular Post firedog Posted June 24, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 24, 2019 Good article. The recordings are very good, the problem is I don't like the music they record that much. And I have hundreds of jazz albums. If I bought it I'd probably never listen to it except to show off the system, which doesn't really interest me. I feel the same way about the Blue Coast catalog. In the end it's about the music, not the recordings. masch, AnotherSpin, miguelito and 9 others 6 6 Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +>Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Strip/Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three (on their own electric circuit) >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Popular Post miguelito Posted June 24, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 24, 2019 Given the mic is stereo (actually three capsule device) I would expect this to be close to a binaural recording, and indeed the videos sound just like that. oso and ednaz 2 NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul system pics Link to comment
ednaz Posted June 24, 2019 Share Posted June 24, 2019 3 hours ago, miguelito said: Given the mic is stereo (actually three capsule device) I would expect this to be close to a binaural recording, and indeed the videos sound just like that. My thought exactly. And the recordings sounded close... but slightly different. But not obviously different. I didn't have time to listen several different times to try and figure out the source of the difference. There are definitely commonalities. Binaural is so sensitive to the recording space, so Chesky's got his list of venues. I'm so in love with the Chesky binaural recordings, to a great extent because they're of artists and music I love. (And full disclosure, a few of the artists are friends or kids of friends.) I didn't hear it on these... but I've got a few binaural albums that were recorded live, and they're freaky... someone sneezes behind, and if you're wearing headphones you head whips around and causes a serious chiropractic problem. Some binaural recordings aren't impressive on stereo, and Chesky claims to do some kind of voodoo to make them work. Another reason I wanted to listen and A/B. Teresa 1 Link to comment
Popular Post miguelito Posted June 24, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 24, 2019 44 minutes ago, ednaz said: I'm so in love with the Chesky binaural recordings, to a great extent because they're of artists and music I love Amber Rubarth - Sessions From The 17th Ward. Fabulous music. Teresa, ednaz and HIFI 2 1 NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul system pics Link to comment
Popular Post Doak Posted June 25, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 25, 2019 Have been gladly collecting the SL album recordings for quite a while now. They are the one label I am perfectly willing to “take a chance on” and it’s paid off at least 90% of the time - even though the music is often unfamiliar. On the other hand, I’d rate my batting average elsewhere even with very familiar albums/music no better than .500. 💜 what these folk are doing. Great article/read JW! HIFI, PAP and The Computer Audiophile 1 2 Doak's Audio System Link to comment
rando Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 12 hours ago, firedog said: The recordings are very good, the problem is I don't like the music they record that much. Glad we got that out of way from the get go. Four voices doesn't have to include drums or vocals. Something to get a bit fired up over material wise would make a world of difference though. Quite openly that is never going to be Jazz in my case. Still this article and the recordings are only developing further interest. The Computer Audiophile 1 Link to comment
Popular Post esldude Posted June 25, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 25, 2019 I think an issue with the Carmen Gnomes recording is the vocalist and drummer wearing headphones. I've done recordings using this technique, and you get that rather lifeless delivery in this recording. It takes the tiny timing and interaction out of a natural setting. Remove the phones and usually there is more life, energy and interplay between everyone. You'll notice the violinist in the Reinier Voet is wearing phones, but one ear is uncovered. If there is something members need to hear over phones, then a single ear phone or like in this case one ear uncovered usually works out for a better recording. All very nice recordings nonetheless. You'll find this technique done in close makes drums or any kind of percussion almost impossible to use. It will simply be way too loud and prominent vs everything else. This would be a case where I might record, using the same miking in the same location, just the percussion, listening to a scratch track. Then have everyone else play separately listening to the percussion in one ear. And mix those in at an appropriate level. I've tried having percussion in larger venues move to the far end, and its still too loud. And in the wrong place. Things like this are why purist recording techniques, as wonderful as they can sound, aren't right for everything. OTOH, with modern gear being so wonderful, you can do terrific recordings that are better than old classics done with simple techniques. And for the people doing the recording these are fantastic. You don't have to make multiple decisions on EQ, compression, reverb, and delay for each mike used like in multimike recordings. You just have the stereo track to deal with. Of course maybe I'm just inexperienced and lacking in creativity. If the musicians do something beautiful I can record it. I'm not the person to make something beautiful out of a mish-mash. There are those that can, and they are more talented than I. ednaz, blue2, The Computer Audiophile and 1 other 3 1 And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
blue2 Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 Enjoying the music is what matters most so I don't buy everything in the SL catalogue but I do try to support them by buying good recordings that are less than a perfect match to my taste. Why post comments on an audiophile site and complain when excellent material is published ;p Support them and hopefully they'll be able to record more popular big draw artists! Check out Witmer Trio "Free" - another excellent recording although not OneMic. PAP 1 🎸🎶🏔️🐺 Link to comment
Popular Post Kal Rubinson Posted June 25, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 25, 2019 21 hours ago, firedog said: Good article. The recordings are very good, the problem is I don't like the music they record that much. ....................... I feel the same way about the Blue Coast catalog. In the end it's about the music, not the recordings. That is typical of many (most?) audiophile labels and why, although I respect the technical accomplishments, I regard them as novelty recordings. ednaz, Mordikai and miguelito 2 1 Kal Rubinson Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile Link to comment
Popular Post JoeWhip Posted June 25, 2019 Author Popular Post Share Posted June 25, 2019 3 hours ago, blue2 said: Enjoying the music is what matters most so I don't buy everything in the SL catalogue but I do try to support them by buying good recordings that are less than a perfect match to my taste. Why post comments on an audiophile site and complain when excellent material is published 😜 Support them and hopefully they'll be able to record more popular big draw artists! Check out Witmer Trio "Free" - another excellent recording although not OneMic. I enjoy both of the Witmer trio recordings. Interesting takes on well known tunes PAP and The Computer Audiophile 2 Link to comment
Popular Post ted_b Posted June 25, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 hour ago, Kal Rubinson said: That is typical of many (most?) audiophile labels and why, although I respect the technical accomplishments, I regard them as novelty recordings. Agree on whole. There are some real nuggets, though, that can be mined from the boutique labels like Barry's (Soundkeeper), Todd's (MA Recordings) and the Mapleshade label started by Pierre Sprey. Back on topic, I find a few of Sound Liaison's recordings to resonate with me, but as with anything, need to be in the mood. Net/net, great article. I'd love for Joe to do this with other boutique labels. Mordikai and The Computer Audiophile 2 "We're all bozos on this bus"....F.T. My JRIver tutorial videos Actual JRIver tutorial MP4 video links My eleven yr old SACD Ripping Guide for PS3 (needs updating but still works) US Technical Advisor, NativeDSD.com Link to comment
Popular Post mansr Posted June 25, 2019 Popular Post Share Posted June 25, 2019 6 hours ago, esldude said: Carmen Gnomes Name-calling now, are we? Mordikai, The Computer Audiophile and miguelito 3 Link to comment
JoeWhip Posted June 25, 2019 Author Share Posted June 25, 2019 41 minutes ago, ted_b said: Agree on whole. There are some real nuggets, though, that can be mined from the boutique labels like Barry's (Soundkeeper), Todd's (MA Recordings) and the Mapleshade label started by Pierre Sprey. Back on topic, I find a few of Sound Liaison's recordings to resonate with me, but as with anything, need to be in the mood. Net/net, great article. I'd love for Joe to do this with other boutique labels. I do not have any of Barry’s recordings. I have a couple of the Mapleshade CDs and 4 of Todd’s recordings, one jazz trio, both Será Una Noche releases and one solo classical piano recording. I will put it on the list of things to think about. Link to comment
Kal Rubinson Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 2 hours ago, ted_b said: Agree on whole. There are some real nuggets, though, that can be mined from the boutique labels like Barry's (Soundkeeper), Todd's (MA Recordings) and the Mapleshade label started by Pierre Sprey. Back on topic, I find a few of Sound Liaison's recordings to resonate with me, but as with anything, need to be in the mood. Yes, there are exceptions and I do have a couple of Tod's MA recordings. Kal Rubinson Senior Contributing Editor, Stereophile Link to comment
oso Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 On 6/24/2019 at 9:16 PM, miguelito said: Given the mic is stereo (actually three capsule device) I would expect this to be close to a binaural recording, and indeed the videos sound just like that. But to my ear these sounds very different, much better on speakers, compared to the Chesky, that´s for sure. Link to comment
miguelito Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 12 hours ago, esldude said: I think an issue with the Carmen Gnomes recording is the vocalist and drummer wearing headphones. Don't want to be b*tchy but seriously these are not the most accomplished musicians around... I am very much in the camp of music first, audiophilia second... NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul system pics Link to comment
miguelito Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 3 hours ago, Kal Rubinson said: Yes, there are exceptions and I do have a couple of Tod's MA recordings. Yes. MA Recordings are amazing. For example, "Sera Una Noche" is actually an ensemble of very well known and accomplished Argentinian musicians (I am Argentinian, btw). However, lets be clear: MA Recordings has, say 50 albums at most? Hardly a label. NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul system pics Link to comment
esldude Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 hour ago, oso said: But to my ear these sounds very different, much better on speakers, compared to the Chesky, that´s for sure. I agree. I don't like that Chesky has gone binaural. His recordings were better prior to that over speakers, and I much prefer speakers. These recordings are generally good recordings. The music as always is a matter of taste and preference. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
miguelito Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 hour ago, oso said: But to my ear these sounds very different, much better on speakers, compared to the Chesky, that´s for sure. I've listened to a sample track from Sound Liaison: Carmen Gomes's "A Fool For You". Comparing this to Amber Rubarth's Chesky release "Songs From The 17th Ward" is a no-brainer: Chesky is much better in my system (and the music itself is great). To be specific, try "A Kiss To Build A Dream On" in this album... NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul system pics Link to comment
esldude Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 46 minutes ago, miguelito said: I've listened to a sample track from Sound Liaison: Carmen Gomes's "A Fool For You". Comparing this to Amber Rubarth's Chesky release "Songs From The 17th Ward" is a no-brainer: Chesky is much better in my system (and the music itself is great). To be specific, try "A Kiss To Build A Dream On" in this album... I just listened to both, and it is not much of a contest. Chesky is better over headphones. Sound Liaison is better over speakers. The music is one part, and you'll get various opinions. The recording quality differences are fairly clear to me. Over speakers the Chesky sounds relative to the SL a bit veiled, a bit distant, a bit soft. SL is clear, present and intimate. Over phones the Chesky has something of an image, and sounds about right. The SL is strung thru the middle of my head from ear to ear and puddles too much around each ear. This matches my experience with MS recordings like the One Mic SL. I've added a little from each channel to the other to make headphone listeners happy. It inflates the middle some and keeps it from sounding too much just around the ears though it doesn't equal binaural for phone listeners. Of course compared to Grammy winning recordings of recent times, the recording quality of either is like comparing Picasso to coloring of kindergartners. So note I'm not dissing on either of these folks here. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
miguelito Posted June 25, 2019 Share Posted June 25, 2019 1 hour ago, esldude said: I just listened to both, and it is not much of a contest. Chesky is better over headphones. Sound Liaison is better over speakers. In My System, To My Ears the Chesky recording has a tonality, decay, space around instruments, and presence of the singer's voice that the Sound Liaison does not (to that degree). I am not talking headphones. NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul system pics Link to comment
esldude Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 1 hour ago, miguelito said: In My System, To My Ears the Chesky recording has a tonality, decay, space around instruments, and presence of the singer's voice that the Sound Liaison does not (to that degree). I am not talking headphones. Which speakers were you using just out of curiosity? I was using some Revel's of the lower end of their product line. I can see how depending upon particulars of a system it could go either way. I hear plenty of space that sounds real enough for the close in style of the recording. There isn't an abundance of space. The Chesky seems like a little too much for my taste over speakers. Which is why I described it as slightly distant. Back when they used crossed figure 8's I thought you had space, and more 3D depth in a more real way than these recent recordings when they are played back over speakers. I wouldn't complain about either if I like the music. And like you I think Chesky has the better music in these particular examples. I'd like to see Sound Liaisons do some of these recordings using crossed figure 8's instead of Mid_side which best I understand is what they used for these recordings. The Josephson's can put out either version. Even after the fact if SL recorded all the outputs. But they may not have had the position of the microphone optimum for crossed 8's. Or just prefer Mid_side themselves. And always keep in mind: Cognitive biases, like seeing optical illusions are a sign of a normally functioning brain. We all have them, it’s nothing to be ashamed about, but it is something that affects our objective evaluation of reality. Link to comment
JoeWhip Posted June 26, 2019 Author Share Posted June 26, 2019 I enjoy Chesky recordings also but they traditionally have more of a distant sound. Also, Chesky tends to record in churchs and larger spaces, much different that the large studio environment used in the SL recordings. Different strokes for different folks. I can and do enjoy both techniques. PAP 1 Link to comment
miguelito Posted June 26, 2019 Share Posted June 26, 2019 1 hour ago, esldude said: Which speakers were you using just out of curiosity? See my signature. Or go to http://goo.gl/66fjxw NUC10i7 + Roon ROCK > dCS Rossini APEX DAC + dCS Rossini Master Clock SME 20/3 + SME V + Dynavector XV-1s or ANUK IO Gold > vdH The Grail or Kondo KSL-SFz + ANK L3 Phono Audio Note Kondo Ongaku > Avantgarde Duo Mezzo Signal cables: Kondo Silver, Crystal Cable phono Power cables: Kondo, Shunyata, van den Hul system pics Link to comment
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