Double Blind Testing Prices All Power Cords Have An Effect On Audio!!!!!

[marce]

This is measurable and if its altering the analogue output then the design is flawed.

[sandyk]

12 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

 

Different cable shielding methods can affect RF pickup/radiation? Maybe this RF interference can affect nearby analogue electronics?

 

I'm not making a claim but just asking about potential technical mechanism for cables sounding different?

 

Different doesn't always mean objectively better of course...

 

For added information in this area, I would recommend reading the discussion in this area started by well respected A.S. member John Swenson who is the designer of the highly respected Uptone products, and almost certainly has way more hands on experience in this area than Marce has.

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/31554-diy-dc-power-cables/

 

[Allan F]

29 minutes ago, marce said:

Pure hearsay, no data to back it up...

 

Personal experience is anything but hearsay. And no data is needed to back it up because we aren't in this hobby to prove anything to naysayers.

[mansr]

5 minutes ago, Allan F said:

Personal experience is anything but hearsay. And no data is needed to back it up because we aren't in this hobby to prove anything to naysayers.

Why then do you get so offended when we don't believe you?

[marce]

7 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

For added information in this area, I would recommend reading the discussion in this area started by well respected A.S. member John Swenson who is the designer of the highly respected Uptone products, and almost certainly has way more hands on experience in this area than Marce has.

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/31554-diy-dc-power-cables/

 

Don't you think the whole world of electronics is aware of this, heard of EMC engineering...

And does he, maybe maybe not I've also been involved with electronics for over 35 years so stop trying to put me down at every chance, it is getting very boring.

[marce]

6 minutes ago, Allan F said:

 

Personal experience is anything but hearsay. And no data is needed to back it up because this isn't a contest.

No without empirical data proper testing etc. its playing.

[marce]

10 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

For added information in this area, I would recommend reading the discussion in this area started by well respected A.S. member John Swenson who is the designer of the highly respected Uptone products, and almost certainly has way more hands on experience in this area than Marce has.

 

https://audiophilestyle.com/forums/topic/31554-diy-dc-power-cables/

 

There are many more engineers in the world and lots more electronics also that thread is DC cables, if I remember rightly wasn't DA quoted as a possible cause of differences in DC cables.... 

[Allan F]

21 minutes ago, marce said:

No without empirical data proper testing etc. its playing.

 

When will people like you and mansr get it? We don't post to prove anything to you. We share experiences with others who may be interested in them. Audio is a hobby to us, not a scientific journal. People are free to consider or ignore our experiences as they see fit.

[BrokeLinuxPhile]

47 minutes ago, Allan F said:

When will people like you and mansr get it? We don't post to prove anything to you. We share experiences with others who may be interested in them. Audio is a hobby to us, not a scientific journal. People are free to consider or ignore our experiences as they see fit. 

 

We engineers can't just flip off the logic switch easily, don't let it get to you.  We tend to be binary thinkers.  Professors burned into our heads to think like that.

 

I've observed some phenomena with cables that can improve things over say standard zip cord or straight conductors.  Some sound better due to how the conductors are arranged or the quality of construction.  There is no denying that.  I've done my own experiments there with conductors in a helical wrap around a mostly air dielectric.  Straight coax, straight conductors, you name it.

 

Any difference i've ever heard could be explained by a law of physics.  Or simply by better mechanical assembly methods.

 

Sometimes things get grey for me while building my tube amps, they can be weird.  I make them sound better by listening carefully, measuring, and relying more on personal experience than book knowledge.  Some tubes like to run hot, some not, based on tube type the way they interact with other types changes.  It's challenging, that's why i love it so much they are difficult to characterize.

 

Most of the experiments i see done (including my own with tubes and cables) don't contain enough sampling data to be much more than anecdotal.  If there were dozens of participants all using the same rig, same treated room at same temp and humidity, same ambient noise, listening to the same source....Then we might have something.

 

 

[mansr]

10 hours ago, sandyk said:

All that I am saying is that checksums are not always able to reveal small audible and visual differences between files,

Two files either contain the same bits or they don't. Just where do you imagine these differences to reside.

 

10 hours ago, sandyk said:

and the same applies to digital photographs too unless the software such as Photoshop has a reference and self calibrates.(it does)

Audio has no reference to calibrate to with playback.

WTF?

[Paul R]

4 hours ago, mansr said:

Why then do you get so offended when we don't believe you?

 

Because you are making it a “we” against “you” issue? 

 

You cannot prove a negative - I.e. that cables do not make a difference. Why not just give those whose experience says cables do make a difference the benefit of the doubt? That is actually good experimental technique. 

 

And in no way does it invalidate a different opinion, if perhaps you believe that they do not make a difference.

 

[Speedskater]

On 4/25/2019 at 2:26 AM, sandyk said:

On 4/24/2019 at 11:59 PM, gmgraves said:

“The mind also HEARS what it wants to hear!”

 That applies especially to many of the Objective members of this forum !

Some Objective audio people seem to do rather well on real listening tests.

[marce]

4 hours ago, Allan F said:

 

When will people like you and mansr get it? We don't post to prove anything to you. We share experiences with others who may be interested in them. Audio is a hobby to us, not a scientific journal. People are free to consider or ignore our experiences as they see fit.

Yet so many claims are made, so many myths passed on...

[Paul R]

2 hours ago, mansr said:

Two files either contain the same bits or they don't. Just where do you imagine these differences to reside.

 

WTF?

 

Two identical files can sound different if played from different media. That’s what I see from Alex’s findings. Other than that, we just tend to agree to disagree. 

 

Photos will look different, sometimes very different, on uncalibrated monitors or TVs. That’s pretty much the whole take. Just like chromatic aberrations need to be corrected before you have a truly accurate photograph. 

 

When reduced to those levels, not much to argue about. 🙃

[christopher3393]

2 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

Some Objective audio people

 

S.O.A.P., a new acronym! Thanks! 😉

[kumakuma]

5 minutes ago, Paul R said:

 

Two identical files can sound different if played from different media. That’s what I see from Alex’s findings. Other than that, we just tend to agree to disagree. 

 

 

That isn't what he is claiming.

 

He is claiming that two identical files played from the same media through the same playback chain will sound different on a consistent basis.

[mansr]

5 minutes ago, Paul R said:

Photos will look different, sometimes very different, on uncalibrated monitors or TVs.

That has nothing to do with anything Alex has ever said.

[Paul R]

Just now, kumakuma said:

 

That isn't what he is claiming.

 

He is claiming that two identical files played from the same media through the same playback chain will sound different on a consistent basis.

 

I know, I was saying what I found to be the case From some testing. Not all right, but not all wrong either. 

[Speedskater]

18 hours ago, Allan F said:

Your bias, IMO, stems from the assumption that any audible differences that can be heard must necessarily be measurable with current knowledge, technology and techniques.

That's an audiophile misunderstanding started a long time ago, when good test equipment was very expensive or not yet invented. So the wrong parameters were often measured.

Now it's often repeated by marketing departments, golden ears, reviewers, bloggers and magazines.

 

If you can hear a difference, that difference can be easily measured by a skilled person using the correct modern test equipment.

[Paul R]

Just now, mansr said:

That has nothing to do with anything Alex has ever said.

 

Umm - yeah, it actually does. I did some comparisons with Alex photos, which is where the “unless it is is corrected” comments are coming from. He is seeing real differences, though they they can be explained. 

[Paul R]

1 minute ago, Speedskater said:

That's an audiophile misunderstanding started a long time ago, when good test equipment was very expensive or not yet invented. So the wrong parameters were often measured.

Now it's often repeated by marketing departments, golden ears, reviewers, bloggers and magazines.

 

If you can hear a difference, that difference can be easily measured by a skilled person using the correct modern test equipment.

 

So, you can why two USB cables that measure the same sound different? So far, nobody I know has been able to do that, and the dang things still sound different. 

 

[Richard Dale]

16 minutes ago, Paul R said:

 

Two identical files can sound different if played from different media. That’s what I see from Alex’s findings. Other than that, we just tend to agree to disagree. 

That's not what Alex is saying. He endlessly repeats that files with the same checksum or sha1 or whatever, can sound different even when they are played from the same media. Because somehow, it matters how the identical files were derived and he thinks it makes a difference to how they sound.

[kumakuma]

9 minutes ago, Paul R said:

 

So, you can why two USB cables that measure the same sound different? So far, nobody I know has been able to do that, and the dang things still sound different. 

 

 

I think "measure the same" is a meaningless expression. I would be surprised if there were two different USB cables that are absolutely identical in terms of all measurable electrical parameters.

[Allan F]

26 minutes ago, Paul R said:

 

So, you can why two USB cables that measure the same sound different? So far, nobody I know has been able to do that, and the dang things still sound different. 

 

 

Actually, Gordon Rankin of Wavelength Audio did some measurements of USB cables about five years ago and found deviations from the 90 ohm impedance specification. He offered an explanation of why this affected the sound. That even caused George to post this mea culpa as a consequence. Gordon Rankin Says I'm Wrong About USB Cable Sound!

[marce]

4 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

I think "measure the same" is a meaningless expression. I would be surprised if there were two different USB cables that are absolutely identical in terms of all measurable electrical parameters.

The whole point of the USB specification is that in the case of cables, transmission lines etc. they are kept at 90R differential impedance, that is the important figure and in that respect they should all measure the same if true USB.