Arny Krueger R.I.P

[plissken]

https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/name/Arnold-Krueger-obituary?pid=188925019&view=guestbook

 

Arny Krueger was well know for his ABX comparator, championing blind / bias controlled evaluation, making the ever popular files with injected jitter and distortion components, and being unyielding to subjective anecdote that lacked any meaningful data to back it up. He is already missed and we are all the poorer for it. 

[marce]

RIP Arny, seems like only yesterday he was active on DIY Audio, many an interesting verbal duel between himself and hardcore subjective Gurus', yep I miss him.

We are poorer...

[look&listen]

4 hours ago, plissken said:

https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/name/Arnold-Krueger-obituary?pid=188925019&view=guestbook

Knew him long ago. Nothing good to say about him.

[plissken]

13 minutes ago, look&listen said:

Knew him long ago. Nothing good to say about him.

 

Never met a subjectivist audiophile that did...

[audiobomber]

3 hours ago, plissken said:

 

Never met a subjectivist audiophile that did...

Maybe because he was resolutely belligerent and dogmatic?

[NOMBEDES]

18 minutes ago, audiobomber said:

Maybe because he was resolutely belligerent and dogmatic?

 

Jeez.  Belligerent and dogmatic. Would have been at home here.

[plissken]

19 minutes ago, audiobomber said:

Maybe because he was resolutely belligerent and dogmatic?

 

I read it as he was correct and methodical in proving himself. Bob Carver became a pariah for some in the industry when he showed he could null any amp out there with one of his own. 

[mansr]

4 hours ago, look&listen said:

Knew him long ago. Nothing good to say about him.

That's just bad form. Shame on you.

[kennyb123]

I debated Arny many times decades ago on rec.audio.* forums.  And maybe also on Compuserve forums prior to that. My condolences to his family and friends.

[STC]

I was a hardcore audiophile until Arny came along on rec.audio. high End. Some how he was quiet nice to me. He was the reason I even tried blind test. I even bought a cheap player to test Theta side by side. That was in the late 90s. I think. 

 

Rest In Peace - Arny. 

[Speedskater]

On 5/9/2018 at 5:52 PM, audiobomber said:

Maybe because he was resolutely belligerent and dogmatic?

Very true.

I think that it was because he corrected the same audiophile misconceptions so many times that he got burnt out.

I never learned to address the idea rather than the poster.

[vmartell22]

On 5/9/2018 at 2:52 PM, audiobomber said:

Maybe because he was resolutely belligerent and dogmatic?

 

Belligerent - definitely - dogmatic - nah - science is not dogmatic - it  only looks like that to the people that confuse it with a belief system.

 

RIP Arny -I remember his epic battles with JA - he will be missed.

 

v 

[gmgraves]

On 5/9/2018 at 6:06 AM, plissken said:

https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/name/Arnold-Krueger-obituary?pid=188925019&view=guestbook

 

Arny Krueger was well know for his ABX comparator, championing blind / bias controlled evaluation, making the ever popular files with injected jitter and distortion components, and being unyielding to subjective anecdote that lacked any meaningful data to back it up. He is already missed and we are all the poorer for it. 

Arny and I used to spar continuously on rec.audio.high-end back in the Nineties. He firmly believed that everything sounded the same. He still used a Sony CD-101and believed that it sounded exactly like the latest megabuck CD deck at the time. He also believed that a cheap $150 receiver from Costco sounded exactly like a 4-figure amp from Nelson Pass, or Audio Research, or Classe, or any other high-dollar amp! But one can't hold being highly opinionated against someone, after all, is there anyone here on CA that can say that they aren't equally opinionated (just in a different direction, perhaps)? He was a good opponent, and I ran into him in 1995 at the Summer CES in Chicago (Remember those? Turned out that '95 show was the last Chicago CES) and we had lunch together and I enjoyed his company. Sorry to see him go. The audio world is poorer for his passing. We haven't sparred or had any communication in many years (I think I left rec.audio.high-end around 2003, but I can't swear to that). I feel diminished by the news that he has passed... My heartfelt condolences to his family and friends. Does anybody know what he died of?

[gmgraves]

On 5/9/2018 at 3:13 PM, plissken said:

 

I read it as he was correct and methodical in proving himself. Bob Carver became a pariah for some in the industry when he showed he could null any amp out there with one of his own. 

 I was present once when Carver did that. He was able to null out his amp so it sounded so much like a Conrad-Johnson power amp that even J. Gordon Holt couldn't tell the difference, and IIRC, the C-J amp was Gordon's!

[plissken]

3 hours ago, gmgraves said:

 I was present once when Carver did that. He was able to null out his amp so it sounded so much like a Conrad-Johnson power amp that even J. Gordon Holt couldn't tell the difference, and IIRC, the C-J amp was Gordon's!

 

Yep, Bob certainly tapped some people on the nose with that one. Made a few enemies while at it. All for being correct. 

[Ron Scubadiver]

Arnold was very active at hydrogenaud.io.  I can remember him chiming in on some threads.  I recall he said he had a box full of old audio interfaces which sounded no worse than a motherboard Realtek chip.  He isn't the only one out there who says sonic differences between electronic components are minimal.  Does anyone remember the Audio Critic?  I suppose there are exceptions with hard to drive low impedance speakers, clipping with low powered amps and the like.  He did an hour long debate with Stereophile's John Atkinson on the objective/subjective thing.  It's on YouTube somewhere.

 

When I find blind tests, they tend to support the notion that most electronics sound the same.  You might look for the "folding chair" test where a Behringer A500 and a consumer BluRay player on a folding chair were tested against $12k of fancy electronics on a heavy duty equipment stand.  There was no statistically significant preference, although the cheap setup was slightly favored.

[KeenObserver]

This is my first post on CA and I think it is only right that it be a nod to Arny.

 

Back a number of years I took on the task of digitizing and restoring recordings that my father had made.  Some of the transcriptions dated back to 1940.  I went on Arny's site to research sound cards.  That's when I bought a Digital Audio Labs Card Deluxe and A Lynx One.  I'm actually still using these cards.

 

RIP Arny.

[audiobomber]

On 2018-05-13 at 12:26 AM, Ron Scubadiver said:

When I find blind tests, they tend to support the notion that most electronics sound the same.  

And when I listen, to my system, with my music, in my room, without artificially imposed test parameters, I find that conclusion garbage. 

 

Kind of fitting that Arnie's farewell thread includes some debate on blind testing. 

[vmartell22]

3 hours ago, audiobomber said:

And when I listen, to my system, with my music, in my room, without artificially imposed test parameters, I find that conclusion garbage. 

 

Kind of fitting that Arnie's farewell thread includes some debate on blind testing. 

 

err..  A small correction - you made a typo above - the phrase is "without rigorous test conditions"

 

v

[adamdea]

I’ve been holding back saying anything because I couldn’t quite work out what to say.

 

Arnie undoubtedly made a real contribution to debate about consumer audio. I think it would be fair to say that had a large part in defining the terms of it. I have witnessed more of his debates than I have participated in, but apart from his passion and sincerity I have always been struck by his energy and stamina. 

 

His presence will be missed. I don’t know who could or would pick up his torch. 

[Ron Scubadiver]

9 hours ago, audiobomber said:

And when I listen, to my system, with my music, in my room, without artificially imposed test parameters, I find that conclusion garbage. 

 

Kind of fitting that Arnie's farewell thread includes some debate on blind testing. 

You might not like it, but that is reality.  Your room, your music and your preconceptions and bias too.  There is someone around here who will tell you gear he has never heard sucks because of its circuit topology.

[audiobomber]

On 2018-05-19 at 8:41 AM, Ron Scubadiver said:

You might not like it, but that is reality.  Your room, your music and your preconceptions and bias too.  There is someone around here who will tell you gear he has never heard sucks because of its circuit topology.

As I was leaving the grocery store a few days ago, I ran into a wine sampling booth. I drank the little cup they offered without knowing what I was drinking. I asked the price, which I thought was reasonable, so I bought a bottle. We had it with dinner that evening. My wife and I both disliked the wine.

 

Using your logic, a blind test has more validity than reality. I should accept the test results and continue to buy this plonk. 

[Ron Scubadiver]

24 minutes ago, audiobomber said:

As I was leaving the grocery store a few days ago, I ran into a wine sampling booth. I drank the little cup they offered without knowing what I was drinking. I asked the price, which I thought was reasonable, so I bought a bottle. We had it with dinner that evening. My wife and I both disliked the wine.

 

Using your logic, a blind test has more validity than reality. I should accept the test results and continue to buy this plonk. 

Maybe you got a bad bottle.  Maybe what you tested wasn't what they were selling.  Your unfortunate bottle of wine proves nothing.

[Speedskater]

On 5/18/2018 at 11:16 PM, audiobomber said:

On 5/13/2018 at 12:26 AM, Ron Scubadiver said:

When I find blind tests, they tend to support the notion that most electronics sound the same.  

And when I listen, to my system, with my music, in my room, without artificially imposed test parameters, I find that conclusion garbage. 

Strawman posts like the above would get Arny going.

[Ron Scubadiver]

2 minutes ago, Speedskater said:

Strawman posts like the above would get Arny going.

For sure.  I wonder what happened to Arny.  He was off the net for a while before the RIP threads started.  I am more of an objectivist than most around here, but I do allow for some subjective observations when the difference is gross.  That usually is going to be with speakers.