Is Audiophiledom a confidence game?

[rando]

False alarm @wgscott.  You can pick up wherever you left off about bike parts.

[Ralf11]

27 minutes ago, crenca said:

 

 

Probably right, but Michael's consistent & reflexive personal insulting seems to be a kind of "tick" he just can't move away from.  What else can you do but tolerate it in discussion and try to focus on the substantial issues?  I do agree with you that a line has been crossed however.

 

He just left another one - also highly offensive (unless you're a clinician).

 

He did come close to at least one decent point - at a certain level, some will be more concerned about some distortions more than others.

 

 

Now, what's the big deal about steel frames?  My system is insufficiently resolving to see why it might be better than say CF...

[The Computer Audiophile]

24 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 Chris

 There is no excuse for the message that Michael sent, but I hope that the guys who provoked Michael don't get off without even a warning ?

Reviewers and some well known designers often seem to be targeted by some members as fair game, often either being driven away or ceasing posting for quite a while.

 

Regards

Alex

 

Nobody has reported a single provocation. 

In addition, I don't give any leeway because someone was provoked. We are adults and control our own actions. 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

29 minutes ago, Rexp said:

What!! I'd rather see Ralf banned.

Michael's private messages are just plain unacceptable. 

 

I don't have a single reported post of Ralf's in my inbox. Everyone seems OK with him or doesn't have the willingness to report his posts. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

If anyone needed more evidence, here's the follow up message.

 

[esldude]

Well now I don't need to respond to ML's pm to me.  No it wasn't like the one he was banned for not even close.  Just one that illuminated who he is.  Not in a good way to my thinking and probably was to his thinking.  So not sure what set him off so inappropriately on Ralf.  Most definitely not called for though.  

[Rexp]

16 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

He just left another one - also highly offensive (unless you're a clinician).

 

He did come close to at least one decent point - at a certain level, some will be more concerned about some distortions more than others.

 

 

Now, what's the big deal about steel frames?  My system is insufficiently resolving to see why it might be better than say CF...

So you don't have a resolving system. Are you planning to get one? What are you doing posting on this site, other than getting valued contributors like Michael banned?

[esldude]

23 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

Now, what's the big deal about steel frames?  My system is insufficiently resolving to see why it might be better than say CF...

 

We talking bike frames or speaker frames?

 

Don't you know?  Steel is Real.  Plastic is fantastic.  At one time titanium was unobtainium.  

 

Before anyone accuses me of bias, I own steel, carbon fiber, titanium and hybrid CF/Ti framed bikes.  My most expensive watch was $140.  It tells time with admirable accuracy whether riding a bike or listening to audio.  Even worked in an art museum the last couple times I visited.  Church's and sacred religious spaces too.  And like me the watch is powered by sunlight. 

[vmartell22]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Time to move on @Michael Lavorgna. You've been banned for the following message to a CA member. 

 

 

Whoa - feel kind of guilty, since was the first to reply to him - however, thought I  was nothing but respectful -  I was looking forward to have Michael as a regular - discussions would be much more fun...

 

 

v

[Ralf11]

12 minutes ago, esldude said:

Well now I don't need to respond to ML's pm to me.  No it wasn't like the one he was banned for not even close.  Just one that illuminated who he is.  Not in a good way to my thinking and probably was to his thinking.  So not sure what set him off so inappropriately on Ralf.  Most definitely not called for though.  

 

me neither

 

maybe the fact that I partly agreed with some things he said this time?

[Ralf11]

13 minutes ago, Rexp said:

... What are you doing posting on this site, other than getting valued contributors like Michael banned?

 

 

are you only here to troll?

 

or are you a fan-boy for Lasorgne?

 

calling a blogger like that a "valued contributor" is a tip-off

 

[Milt99]

...

 

[crenca]

7 minutes ago, Milt99 said:

Are some of you dense?

New to the Interweb, audio forums?

This is version 9,253,125 of the same stunningly pointless argument.

Anytime anyone who is directly in the A\V business or anyone who writes about it makes the mistake of posting

on a forum, it's like blood in the Amazon for the piranhas only these mindless meat eaters have an axe to grind for whatever reason.

The point of the attack is never made. So what is it? You want all A\V sites to burn in hell because you disagree with them?

CA is no different except it gives us voice, some chose to use that opportunity to anonymously strap on a flame thrower &

lay waste to their target. Grow the f*ck up.

 

 

 

And now for something completely different:

 

"The industry" normally only "dabble" in forums because they can not control the narrative.  There are those forums that they control of course, but their value is not the same and consumers tend to figure it out sooner or later.  This is another data point to consider when thinking if their's is a confidence game.

 

There are exceptions of course (Mr. Hanson, Schiit's principal {can't remember his name}), etc).  They however appear to work off different principals such as a more open (read legitimate) engineering style that even where you disagree with it, they don't seem to hide as readily...either that, or they are simply more sophisticated at the confidence game

[wgscott]

6 hours ago, rando said:

Kindly go pontificate upon your unique experiences where they deal with riders imbued with similar insights and expertise on BF.  

Wow   What crawled up your copious arse?

[Rexp]

19 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

are you only here to troll?

 

or are you a fan-boy for Lasorgne?

 

calling a blogger like that a "valued contributor" is a tip-off

 

You are the definition of an internet troll, you have zero interest in anything audiophile.

[rando]

33 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I don't have a single reported post of Ralf's in my inbox.

 

 

11 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

or are you a fan-boy for Lasorgne?

 

 

 

3 minutes ago, wgscott said:

Wow   What crawled up your copious arse?

 

[bobbmd]

All I can say is OMG-

[rickca]

3 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Time to move on @Michael Lavorgna. You've been banned for the following message to a CA member. 

Yay!  It's about time!

[vmartell22]

1 hour ago, crenca said:

 

And now for something completely different:

 

"The industry" normally only "dabble" in forums because they can not control the narrative.  There are those forums that they control of course, but their value is not the same and consumers tend to figure it out sooner or later.  This is another data point to consider when thinking if their's is a confidence game.

 

There are exceptions of course (Mr. Hanson, Schiit's principal {can't remember his name}), etc).  They however appear to work off different principals such as a more open (read legitimate) engineering style that even where you disagree with it, they don't seem to hide as readily...either that, or they are simply more sophisticated at the confidence game

 

Michael's banishment got me thinking along the same lines - although  at this point, internet forums have been around for a long time,  seems to be that the audiophile industry and press as a system was greatly disrupted by it.

 

 

I  am gonna assume that Michael (and others had/) have been in the industry for a long thing, predating the internet. I started to think about those that. First of all, the audiophile magazines *WERE* the means through which the consumer. Think about it! no company websites, no direct line to manufacturers, etc

 

So the system was pretty closed - believers made AND read the magazines. The odd discussion in the letters section was just a blip. There editors, writers of those magazines were used to rule the land! Their opinion made or broke products and everyone operated within the environment -  that is no challenge to the audiophile ethos... cables mattered, etc...

 

 

Then the internet came. Slowly, blogs and forums became the most important means of information - the immediacy and interactivity won over the magazine. They probably thought that their value came from the experts in their organizations. 

 

But guess what? the authority of these experts was ( and it has been since then) challenged in these forums.  Just a few posts I ago I expressed the impressions that they were more experts in the folklore of audiophiles than in the engineering/science  of audio... no one came to their defense and challenged that.

 

If you are one of those old timers and are sincerely convinced that the point of view that audio is an appreciation matter (like wine or coffee) and not an objective discipline, and that you are doing a service to the public, how would you feel? My guess is that frustrated. And worse, you would feel you whole life's work and livelihood  are being belittled and challenged. 

 

I was surprised to see Michael around here and replied.  I think the quickness to escalate words comes from the frustration of  a world that is changing around them.

 

v

 

[wgscott]

3 hours ago, rando said:

False alarm @wgscott.  You can pick up wherever you left off about bike parts.

 

Thanks for your royal permission.

 

I've got a better idea.  Let's put each other on ignore.

[fas42]

Curious what Michael Lavorgna had to say in earlier posts - found one where he states,

 

Quote

Yes, I enjoyed the Vega for a number of years. Again, I think we have to focus on what *our* goal is with hi-fi. I'm looking for unending musical engagement coupled with the desire to discover more music. The only "test" for this is listening over time.

 

Well, guess what, boys and girls - it's your lucky day!! A competent system may deliver brilliant "objective measurements", if that is your personal lust, but also "unending musical engagement coupled with the desire to discover more music"! Gosh, 2 for the price for 1 - will wonders never cease??

 

So, it's OK to want both - the cake, and the eating ... now, just knuckle down and do the yards to make it happen - if it happened once, it can happen any number of times, for all ...

[Ralf11]

as John Smith told the pilgrims:  "no cake, no eat"

[George Hincapie]

Wow! Surprised by Michael's behaviour. He always seems so calm in his videos.

[sandyk]

12 minutes ago, George Hincapie said:

Wow! Surprised by Michael's behaviour. He always seems so calm in his videos.

 

Perhaps Michael got out the wrong side of the bed this morning ?

It doesn't seem characteristic of him.

[firedog]

14 hours ago, wgscott said:

 

You could get a nice set of wheels for that.

 

I got a really expensive watch, too.  It was $100 at Costcow.  Photovoltaic Seiko.  Plus, it is analogue, so it reports the time in a much richer and authentic manner.

The important thing is that every semester you have as part of your first class a lesson in reading analog watch faces for your students....

Once they've mastered analog, you can explain to them how finding out the time in analog is a richer experience.