Denafrips R2R DAC (plays 512 DSD) reviewed as giant killer

[bodiebill]

  

On 3/7/2020 at 12:52 PM, luisma said:

So weird, that loud hiss only happened switching formats on the old amanero board, I have never experienced that specific hiss with the new board, although I don't switch formats that often using mostly PCM.

you could perfectly blow a tweeter if it is the same hiss I suspect,very annoying.

Be sure to keep HQP initial volume low - 14 or so so Everytime you switch filters or resolution etc and the DAC might not handshake properly at least the volume protects you.

 

You using NOS or OS?

 

@luisma, in reply to your post in the GentooPlayer thread:

 

I gave it some time, but it still occasionally happens when I switch from DSD to PCM. And indeed it is a loud and broad overwhelming hiss. I am using an analogue passive preamp (great DIY Stereo Coffee preamp by the way), and I am taking care.

 

Still experimenting with NOS (using HQPlayer as OS) vs OS setting on Terminator.

Yesterday I fed the Terminator with untouched source material and was impressed with the DAC's OS setting.

For PCM it can compete with HQPlayer upsampling into NOS.

 

@alvin1118: I read somewhere that the OS setting does not touch DSD. Does that mean that DSD64 will remain DSD64 when in OS? So for DSD NOS and OS have the same result?

 

[Blake]

Public service announcement for my fellow Terminator owners:  Don't forget to experiment with the Phase button as additional sonic improvements are just a button push away.😃

 

 

[exdmd]

Before you send your money to China to buy from Denafrips watch this video from the former US importer Mike Powell.

 

 

[bodiebill]

Mainly sheds light on his own (changing) interests and resulting prejudices.

[Blake]

1 hour ago, exdmd said:

Before you send your money to China to buy from Denafrips watch this video from the former US importer Mike Powell.

 

 

 

You already posted this in another thread and we already debunked it.  Why are you continuing to push this?  

 

Mike Powell (aka OCD Hi-Fi Guy), apparently forgot to take down his various YouTube videos about the Terminator.  Mike no longer has any credibility:

 

 

So, he praises the Terminator in comparison to the $20K Vermeer, raves about the build quality and sonics and says in the comments below the video that it is more musical than the Vermeer.

 

Also funny, here is one of Mike's comments in the thread below the You Tube video:

 

From Mike 1 year ago:  "Interesting view, I will ultimately record with a hi res recorder I bought and find a way to upload them and do it well. Termi is a great DAC, best ive heard under $10K."

 

So, when Mike was a dealer, in the video he says with the Terminator, you are buying a DAC worth $9,000. After Denafrips pulled the line from Mike, now Mike says the Terminator is a mediocre DAC, with sub-par build quality, worth no more than $1,800 according to his psychotic "rant" video, where you are expected to believe that he suddenly "grew" (manufactured) a conscience about worker's rights in China?  .

 

See also:

 

 

 

Quote:  "This thing is world class!"

 

 

[Ivanaudio]

First off, you are sending money to Singapore, not China.

 

And yes, Mike was getting a small cut on everything he 'sold' but in truth he did not stock product and just shifted the $$$$ to Singapore and kept a few $$$ for himself.

 

What he WOULDN'T agree to do for Alvin, or so he told me, was lug equipment to reviewers and shows, all for that few $$$.

 

I bought my Terminator from Mike just a few days before (or after?) he bailed.

 

Ended up waiting a long while as I got one of the VERY first delivered with the new DSP board.

 

Would have loved to have Mike in the loop for support, especially if I ever have to do a firmware upgrade on my own.

 

That he remains bitter after the breakup is sad but not surprising.

 

Terminator is still a great DAC, but to make money Mike has to sell stuff at 2-3 times the Terminators price, which might explain his need to rant.

 

 

[Dev]

43 minutes ago, Blake said:

 

You already posted this in another thread and we already debunked it.  Why are you continuing to push this?  

 

Mike Powell (aka OCD Hi-Fi Guy), apparently forgot to take down his various YouTube videos about the Terminator.  Mike no longer has any credibility:

 

 

So, he praises the Terminator in comparison to the $20K Vermeer, raves about the build quality and sonics and says in the comments below the video that it is more musical than the Vermeer.

 

Also funny, here is one of Mike's comments in the thread below the You Tube video:

 

From Mike 1 year ago:  "Interesting view, I will ultimately record with a hi res recorder I bought and find a way to upload them and do it well. Termi is a great DAC, best ive heard under $10K."

 

So, when Mike was a dealer, in the video he says with the Terminator, you are buying a DAC worth $9,000. After Denafrips pulled the line from Mike, now Mike says the Terminator is a mediocre DAC, with sub-par build quality, worth no more than $1,800 according to his psychotic "rant" video, where you are expected to believe that he suddenly "grew" (manufactured) a conscience about worker's rights in China?  .

 

See also:

 

 

 

Quote:  "This thing is world class!"

 

 

couldn’t agree more. I believe lot of folks bought the Terminator based on these reviews. Now his intentions are very clear as he want to push a different product, which is fine but badmouthing the one he used to sell once and raved about just seems very silly and with clear intentions. I would be more careful about doing business with such dealers instead of not buying a dac which has been reviewed very well amongst other reviewers and users. 

[Dev]

19 minutes ago, Ivanaudio said:

Would have loved to have Mike in the loop for support, especially if I ever have to do a firmware upgrade on my own.

 

Firmware upgrade is not that hard as you would think. You need a Windows computer or laptop and a USB cable (which you would already have if you are using the USB input of the Termi). There are lot of folks here (and Alvin himself) can guide you through this.

[Ivanaudio]

23 minutes ago, Dev said:

Firmware upgrade is not that hard as you would think. You need a Windows computer or laptop and a USB cable (which you would already have if you are using the USB input of the Termi). There are lot of folks here (and Alvin himself) can guide you through this.

HA!

 

I read the instructions and can assure you it would be hard for me.

 

The DAC I owned prior to the Terminator was an Audio-GD Master 7 which had an even more complex method of doing firmware upgrades, also required a Wndows computer (which I have not touched in 10+ years and own ZERO of) and a 'box' of some kind that I would have had to find on eBay.

 

And, of course, King Wa's English skills resemble my skills in both Mandarin and Cantonese.

 

So yes, I'm better off with the Terminator but still....

 

[bodiebill]

On 3/10/2020 at 11:15 AM, bodiebill said:

 

@alvin1118: I read somewhere that the OS setting does not touch DSD. Does that mean that DSD64 will remain DSD64 when in OS? So for DSD NOS and OS have the same result?

 

Alvin explained to me that for DSD, NOS/OS modes make no difference; in effect DSD is always treated as NOS.

Also for DSD, filter settings do not apply.

So OS/NOS and filter change only apply to PCM.

If you want to play DSD64 as DSD256 or DSD512, something like HQPlayer is needed.

[alvin1118]

Hello guys, 

 

I posted this in another forum, I thought it would be good to share it here too.

 

There is a quality standard we uphold to. I can't speak of the other manufacturers, but DENAFRIPS, for one, will not want to save the small cost to produce sub-standard products to tarnish its brand image. In fact, they are one of the rare manufacturers who believe in designing and producing the products at the best money can buy. Pontus/Venus were upgraded with beefy power supply in early 2018, Terminator PSU components were improved too.

 

I've been working with DENAFRIPS for close to 4 years now. DENAFRIPS, being a boutique hifi manufacturer, resources were limited. Many aspects may not be up to the big guy's standard. Take for example, the packaging - even though it is strong, robust for international shipment, it doesn't look aesthetically pleasing, unlike the big brands. Also, the serial number was missing (we track the warranty by invoice/receipt). In DENAFRIPS' perspective, these weren't the focus at the point in time. They would rather pay all the attention in manufacturing, quality control and quality assurance, so to deliver a perfect product to the customer.

 

We operate in a quasi-direct sales business model where the profit margin is low compared to the conventional hifi business. In fact, our partners are doing us a favour to distribute the products at a very low profit margin. I am very thankful and appreciate their effort to provide local support to their customers in the designated territory. We parted way with some partners, but it has always been an amicable way.

 

We are constantly improving. These are the few photos of the recent shipments to address the serial # concern:

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Thanks for reading guys. I gotta be back to work to push for more shipments to happen. Dozens of customers are at my back chasing for a ship date, a happy business problem 

 

Many thanks.

 

Yours sincerely,

Alvin Chee

www.vinshineaudio.com

[ThenewGearPPK]

6 hours ago, alvin1118 said:

 

 

Is that a remote to control the volume for the DAC? Is that a new feature?

 

[alvin1118]

2 minutes ago, ThenewGearPPK said:

Is that a remote to control the volume for the DAC? Is that a new feature?

 

 

No sir, the remote control is for pre/power amp.

[alvin1118]

Hello guys,

 

I've posted some video guides to demonstrate the DENAFRIPS DAC configuration/settings:

• Ares II
• Pontus/Venus (New DSP)
• Terminator (New DSP)

I hope the video guides are helpful!

 

Many thanks.

 

Yours sincerely,

Alvin Chee

www.vinshineaudio.com

[luisma]

On 3/10/2020 at 6:15 AM, bodiebill said:

And indeed it is a loud and broad overwhelming hiss.

Super annoying hiss to start with but again, to me, it never happened with the new board, my last firmware was the one at the end of Nov 2019, you received your terminator recently, it should come with the new firmware, but I would check just in case

 

[luisma]

On 3/11/2020 at 11:55 AM, Ivanaudio said:

Terminator is still a great DAC, but to make money Mike has to sell stuff at 2-3 times the Terminators price, which might explain his need to rant.

or maybe he wasn't getting enough discounts on his prices from Vinshine, true is Vinshine appointed him as Denafrips official service center, I understand that in the long run commercially maybe it wasn't attractive to him, no need to bash the product you have been selling for that reason, and yes I followed his videos and he was praising always the Terminator (like others do) for a good reason, it is an excellent DAC.

I understand you could get upset at the ways things works in China (I can certainly relate) but no need to be unprofessional and take it on the product to discredit the reseller which IMO is a great guy.

Honestly I am surprised by Mike's reaction, I had a better "professional" impression of him.

[bodiebill]

6 minutes ago, luisma said:

Super annoying hiss to start with but again, to me, it never happened with the new board, my last firmware was the one at the end of Nov 2019, you received your terminator recently, it should come with the new firmware, but I would check just in case

 

Alvin has already confirmed that mine has the most recent firmware. Not sure why this happens... It does without exception when I switch from DSD to PCM. I can solve it by restarting HQPlayer first. Maybe I can ask Miska.

[Ivanaudio]

57 minutes ago, luisma said:

or maybe he wasn't getting enough discounts on his prices from Vinshine, true is Vinshine appointed him as Denafrips official service center, I understand that in the long run commercially maybe it wasn't attractive to him, no need to bash the product you have been selling for that reason, and yes I followed his videos and he was praising always the Terminator (like others do) for a good reason, it is an excellent DAC.

I understand you could get upset at the ways things works in China (I can certainly relate) but no need to be unprofessional and take it on the product to discredit the reseller which IMO is a great guy.

Honestly I am surprised by Mike's reaction, I had a better "professional" impression of him.

 

 

He wasn't getting any 'discount' at all as he was not a 're-seller'.

 

Everything he sold was drop-shipped from Asia.  Mine came direct from Hong Kong even though I sent my $$$ PayPal 'Friends and Family' directly to him.

 

When last I talked to he it seemed he really hoped to use his time with DENAFRIPS to built a loyal clientele of audiophiles that he could also sell other high-end products to.

 

Maybe that didn't work out?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bodiebill]

23 hours ago, bodiebill said:

 

Alvin has already confirmed that mine has the most recent firmware. Not sure why this happens... It does without exception when I switch from DSD to PCM. I can solve it by restarting HQPlayer first. Maybe I can ask Miska.

 

I found out that this hiss also occasionally occurs when I fastforward while playing a PCM file: before fastforward OK, after fastforward the dreaded hiss.

[Teresa]

On 9/20/2017 at 11:54 PM, firedog said:

http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews2/denafrips/1.html

 

for those who are interested in these types of DACs, looks very interesting. 

 

I'm curious how is a €3,632 (US$4,047.68) DAC a giant killer? For me any DAC priced over US$1,000 is very expensive and is itself a giant. IMHO a great sounding DAC priced less than $500 would be a giant killer.

[Allan F]

7 hours ago, Teresa said:

 

I'm curious how is a €3,632 (US$4,047.68) DAC a giant killer? For me any DAC priced over US$1,000 is very expensive and is itself a giant. IMHO a great sounding DAC priced less than $500 would be a giant killer.

 

It's all relative, Teresa, when you consider that top of the line DACs from manufacturers like EMM Labs list for $30,000. When a DAC that sells for under $5,000 can compete in sound quality with DACs that sell for several times as much, some will consider it to be a "giant killer" despite its cost. OTOH, when you consider diminishing returns and the trickle down effect of today's digital technology, there is no question that modern well designed DACs that sell for a fraction of that amount offer a lot more bang for your buck!

[firedog]

7 hours ago, Allan F said:

 

It's all relative, Teresa, when you consider that top of the line DACs from manufacturers like EMM Labs list for $30,000. When a DAC that sells for under $5,000 can compete in sound quality with DACs that sell for several times as much, some will consider it to be a "giant killer" despite its cost. OTOH, when you consider diminishing returns and the trickle down effect of today's digital technology, there is no question that modern well designed DACs that sell for a fraction of that amount offer a lot more bang for your buck!

Yep, exactly my intent when I started the thread: maybe spend "only" 4 digit$ instead of 5. 

But I'd be the first to say that there are some $500 DACs that are very good, and the diminishing returns curve is steep after that. And certainly above the $4000 this one costs, you pay LOTS of money for very small improvements. Some people have the cash and are willing to pay that. 

[luisma]

On 3/14/2020 at 5:24 PM, Teresa said:

I'm curious how is a €3,632 (US$4,047.68) DAC a giant killer? For me any DAC priced over US$1,000 is very expensive and is itself a giant. IMHO a great sounding DAC priced less than $500 would be a giant killer.

I guess it is matter of semantics with the title?

[luisma]

To me the Terminator provides several things, the important ones are:

 

The power supply have excellent quality and it is isolated at the bottom of the chassis, you don't need to spend any extra on an expensive LPS

The final analog stage is very good

The quality reproduction of native hires content is better (subjectively of course) than other DAC's, even more expensive ones.

The initial stage digital filters are very good, of course many of us are using HQP to upsample but for those who don't use HQP at all the DAC can do all the functions with no issues

 

[alvin1118]

Hello guys, 

 

Like to share the users' impression of the DENAFRIPS DAC. 
https://www.denafrips.com/news

 

I am extremely happy and encouraged to read these positive impressions. This is simply the best encouragement and drive for me to continue what i am doing and i will do better!

 

Thank you for your support! 

 

Alvin Chee

www.vinshineaudio.com