Denafrips R2R DAC (plays 512 DSD) reviewed as giant killer

[bodiebill]

I currently own a custom Lampizator DAC (somehing between a Lite 7 and a Big 7, to be precise: a Lite 7 with an extra rectifier tube) and only send DSD256 to it upsampled by HQPlayer embedded. The sound is wonderfully organic, analogue and dynamic.

 

Did anyone compare a similar setup to the Terminator? I am mainly interested in classical, and I remember someone saying that the Terminator is not necessarily best at that.

 

Still very interested after all the rave comments here and elsewhere...

[StreamFidelity]

4 hours ago, bodiebill said:

Did anyone compare a similar setup to the Terminator? I

 

Yes, I also send exclusively via HQPlayer with the following settings to the Termi:

 

poly-sinc-short-lp => ASDM7EC => DSD256x48

 

Best sound ever. I previously had a Linn Klimax DSM (Katalyst) and a T + A MP 3000 HV.

[bodiebill]

Thanks. I will try for myself soon -- placed an order today for the Terminator... 🙂

[Abyss Man]

5 hours ago, bodiebill said:

Thanks. I will try for myself soon -- placed an order today for the Terminator... 🙂

Welcome to the Termy Club boss.

 

[luisma]

6 hours ago, bodiebill said:

Thanks. I will try for myself soon -- placed an order today for the Terminator... 🙂

Be sure to test PCM as well, most people who know what they are doing are using DSD like @StreamFidelity

but I have found in my system PCM brings it to another level of detail

I read somewhere (might be mistaken and if someone else could comment on this @Miska) that the R2R DA reconstruction happens when you feed PCM to the DAC, when you use DSD / SDM you go through a different conversion process inside the DAC using a different logic.

 

 

[bodiebill]

4 hours ago, luisma said:

Be sure to test PCM as well, most people who know what they are doing are using DSD like @StreamFidelity

but I have found in my system PCM brings it to another level of detail

I read somewhere (might be mistaken and if someone else could comment on this @Miska) that the R2R DA reconstruction happens when you feed PCM to the DAC, when you use DSD / SDM you go through a different conversion process inside the DAC using a different logic.

 

I sure will try PCM also. I have no absolute preference for DSD format-wise. The reason I am currently consistently upsampling everything to DSD (same parameters as @StreamFidelity) is that I prefer my Lampi's DSD circuit to its PCM one. I expect the Terminator's R2R PCM circuit to be something else.

[Solstice380]

@bodiebillI think you are going to have a lot of fun! 😎

[luisma]

11 hours ago, bodiebill said:

is that I prefer my Lampi's DSD circuit to its PCM one.

Exactly that's my point,

[Ivanaudio]

Hi All,

 

I have the 'new' DENAFRIPS Terminator as shipped with the 'new' DSP Board and have one question regarding 'Duel AES/EBU'.  Seems the highest PCM sample rate for 'all other inputs' (S/PDIF) is 192 does that mean Duel AES/EBU is also limited to 192 sample rate?  If so, why is Dual AES/EBU offered as single AES/EBU supports the same, 192 sample rate?

Thanks

 

[Cyrus]

@Ivanaudio  Congratulations on your Terminator.

 

2 hours ago, Ivanaudio said:

does that mean Duel AES/EBU is also limited to 192 sample rate?  If so, why is Dual AES/EBU offered as single AES/EBU supports the same, 192 sample rate?

 

192 kHz is the max for all inputs (PCM).

 

Dual AES/EBU is so that you can have separate Right/Left Channel Inputs, however each is also capped at 192 kHz.

[Ivanaudio]

So does that mean one can hook it up to a dCS Network Bridge which outputs dual AES/EBU?

 

Or, asked another way, is that how dual AES/EBU works on other 'players' or sources?

 

 

[Cyrus]

1 minute ago, Ivanaudio said:

So does that mean one can hook it up to a dCS Network Bridge which outputs dual AES/EBU?

 

Yes.

[bodiebill]

Two questions:

 

(1) Does the usb input of the Terminator draw 5VDC current?

 

(2) I remember someone saying that he removed his ISO Regen as this had no benefits with the Terminator. Any other experiences that confirm this? (I am currently using PC => iFi iUSB3.0 => ISO Regen => Lampizator DAC with clear benefits.)

[StreamFidelity]

@bodiebill 

 

Yes, the USB input unfortunately requires 5V. I hate little boxes that often make the sound worse than it improves. Ideally nothing in the signal path and short connections. I use JCAT USB Card FEMTO and a short (0.75m) USB cable (Audioquest Diamond). Great Sound! 

[Blake]

Hi all.  I ordered my Terminator last month and will be receiving my unit soon. After reading various online reviews and comments, my impression is that USB input is the generally favored input in terms of best sound quality.  Is that correct?

 

[alvin1118]

Happy New Year, guys! 

 

The USB cable needs to supply the 5VDC as a logic trigger, along with USB input selection via the front panel, the AND logic will 'wake up' the Terminator USB receiver.  The USB receiver will be powered up by the internal Linear Power Supply.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Yours sincerely,

Alvin Chee

www.vinshineaudio.com

[bodiebill]

2 hours ago, StreamFidelity said:

@bodiebill 

 

Yes, the USB input unfortunately requires 5V. I hate little boxes that often make the sound worse than it improves. Ideally nothing in the signal path and short connections. I use JCAT USB Card FEMTO and a short (0.75m) USB cable (Audioquest Diamond). Great Sound! 

 

Thanks! I will experiment with all combinations (both, one and neither) of the ISO Regen and iFi iUSB3.0 boxes and use my ears to decide... Have to be patient until February I guess...

[luisma]

Does anyone knows if the Allo Sig plays along with the new board?

 

 

[Ivanaudio]

On 1/5/2020 at 3:19 PM, Cyrus said:

@Ivanaudio  Congratulations on your Terminator.

 

 

192 kHz is the max for all inputs (PCM).

 

Dual AES/EBU is so that you can have separate Right/Left Channel Inputs, however each is also capped at 192 kHz.

Sadly, that's not how dCS claims to dodual AES/EBU (one AES/EBU per channel, left and right).

 

They use some other of splitting the hi-rez stream but do use dual AES/EBU to double the normally limited sampling rate of AES/EBU S/PDIF.

[Cyrus]

Have you looked at pro audio to address what you want to achieve?

[Ivanaudio]

6 minutes ago, Cyrus said:

Have you looked at pro audio to address what you want to achieve?

 

 

All I want to do is take advantage of the DENAFRIPS Terminator's dual AES/EBU input feature by hooking it up to a dCS Network Bridge.

 

But not going to drop $$$ on a dCS Network Bridge until I am sure it will work

 

https://www.dcsltd.co.uk/products/network-bridge

 

They aren't cheap, but then nothing made by dCS is.

 

Good news is that there is an open standard for dual AES/EBU but who knows if it's the same for all DACs and Streamers which use it?

 

 

 

 

 

 

[bodiebill]

Can anyone advise on the best way to (after-factory) burn-in a new Terminator?

I am also asking this as I am not sure whether the PCM and DSD routes require separate burn-in.

[Ben-M]

On 1/7/2020 at 12:18 AM, Blake said:

Hi all.  I ordered my Terminator last month and will be receiving my unit soon. After reading various online reviews and comments, my impression is that USB input is the generally favored input in terms of best sound quality.  Is that correct?

 

I believe USB and i2s HDMI LVDS are the 2 favoured inputs, with some preferring/hoping the i2s input is better. I have sided with the I2s input so far, from sources like the USB->i2s DDC Singxer SU-1 or new SU-6. 

 

On 1/7/2020 at 12:42 AM, alvin1118 said:

Happy New Year, guys! 

 

The USB cable needs to supply the 5VDC as a logic trigger, along with USB input selection via the front panel, the AND logic will 'wake up' the Terminator USB receiver.  The USB receiver will be powered up by the internal Linear Power Supply.

 

Hope this helps!

 

Yours sincerely,

Alvin Chee

www.vinshineaudio.com

What you just described may be what's called the "USB receiver handshake", and after that the USB power is supplied from another source. 

 

If so, then it means the 5V power leg from the USB source device can likely be disconnected after the USB handshake successfully occures. This was a common tweak that many people said improved the sound quality of these kinds of USB implementations back a few years ago. Might be good here too?

 

On 1/14/2020 at 10:39 PM, bodiebill said:

Can anyone advise on the best way to (after-factory) burn-in a new Terminator?

I am also asking this as I am not sure whether the PCM and DSD routes require separate burn-in.

- Pink noise, white noise, brown noise.

- 500 hours. 

- PCM and DSD circuits are not the same, thus need to either be burned in separately if you're going to rotate or just go with the one you need firstly and then burn in the other one after you get to 500hrs on the first.

- Don't forget connecting the desired output as well. XLR seems to be preferred. Me included. 

[bodiebill]

3 hours ago, Ben-M said:

- Pink noise, white noise, brown noise.

- 500 hours. 

- PCM and DSD circuits are not the same, thus need to either be burned in separately if you're going to rotate or just go with the one you need firstly and then burn in the other one after you get to 500hrs on the first.

- Don't forget connecting the desired output as well. XLR seems to be preferred. Me included. 

 

Thanks, that is useful.

Quite a life task.

It does promote patience, especially in trying to find out my preferred circuit (PCM or DSD)...

[bodiebill]

4 hours ago, Ben-M said:

XLR seems to be preferred. Me included. 

 

My amp does not have balanced inputs. In that case, is there any way to benefit from the Terminator's balanced outputs? Adapters? Or does that make no sense?