Munich High End Show 2017

[rando]

1 minute ago, rando said:

I have no idea how one click to edit quoted myself?

Oops.

[bibo01]

21 hours ago, louisxiawei said:

I see Audiobyte also introduced its incoming so-called true 1-bit DSD1024 DAC powered by programmable PSU.

 

Any comment on "how true it is?" 

 

 

 

It's true...it seems interesting. Anybody looked at it?

@Miska

[jabbr]

15 hours ago, m5sime said:

Yes. With a couple of RAM chips and an Xilinx 7010 SOC (2 ARM9 cores). It is quite close in design to the Zedboard that Xilinx have for system builders. https://www.xilinx.com/products/boards-and-kits/1-58nuel.html

Sale price of this is circa 170 USD

 

I assume that everything that is needed is in this SoM including the SW. The main question is how much this module costs an OEM integrator (with Ravenna licensing etc)..

 

I would love to see this in the hands of the chinese integrators offering a Ravenna/AES67 AOIP to AES/I2S/SPDIF interface adapter and of course also native AOIP DACs..

Is the Merging "ZMan" $170? That would be off the chart, particularly if included SW/IP.

 

The Xilinx Zynq is a terrific series of chips that I've working with. The 7010 if that's what the Zman has, is the lowest performance chip in the series. The architecture combines ARM cores along with an FPGA communicating over an AXI bus. The ARM (PS side) typically might run Linux and communicate with the FPGA (PL side) using device drivers. Having multiple interfaces, each listening on its own port would be no problem, eg Ravenna/AES67, NAA, Roon, SMB etc. Perhaps there is a way to get the I2S/DSD sound out, rather than across a PCI bus but who knows?

[bibo01]

33 minutes ago, jabbr said:

Is the Merging "ZMan" $170? That would be off the chart, particularly if included SW/IP.

 

The Xilinx Zynq is a terrific series of chips that I've working with. The 7010 if that's what the Zman has, is the lowest performance chip in the series. The architecture combines ARM cores along with an FPGA communicating over an AXI bus. The ARM (PS side) typically might run Linux and communicate with the FPGA (PL side) using device drivers. Having multiple interfaces, each listening on its own port would be no problem, eg Ravenna/AES67, NAA, Roon, SMB etc. Perhaps there is a way to get the I2S/DSD sound out, rather than across a PCI bus but who knows?

In terms of price, I believe m5sime was referring to the Xilinx board he linked.

Merging ZMan board uses Xilinx Zynq 72010 chip.

[matthias]

Best sound (in alphabetical order):

Aries Cerat

Blumenhofer

Sound Galleries

Soundsmith

Wolf von Langa

 

Most interesting new technology:

Estelon

 

Disappointing:

Cessaro

Goebel

Magico

 

 

Matt

 

[Miska]

9 hours ago, bibo01 said:

It's true...it seems interesting. Anybody looked at it?

@Miska

 

Based on that picture it seems like a real thing, I assume having some of it's own digital filters and modulators built-in. I'm a bit curious if it allows DSD1024 and bit-perfect pass-through to the D/A section..

 

[louisxiawei]

2 hours ago, Miska said:

 

 I'm a bit curious if it allows DSD1024 and bit-perfect pass-through to the D/A section..

 

Sorry for being off the topic a little bit, but are you suggesting it is difficult for DSD1024 to be bit-perfect to pass-through to D/A section?

 

what's the limit for discrete DSD DAC being able to support DSD1024 at the moment in terms of DAC design?

 

I'm aware if using HQplayer to upsampling DSD1024 with certain filter, the algorithm must be huge and current hardware (CPU) may not fulfill, but must be some other reasons for DACs like T+A or your DCS1 only support sampling rate up to DSD512 at 44.1 and 48 bases.

 

 

[woodford]

4 hours ago, matthias said:

Best sound (in alphabetical order):

Aries Cerat

Blumenhofer

Sound Galleries

Soundsmith

Wolf von Langa

 

Most interesting new technology:

Estelon

 

Disappointing:

Cessaro

Goebel

Magico

 

 

Matt

 

what was Soundsmith showing?

[Liam]

On 20 May 2017 at 5:46 PM, Forehaven said:

Am I the only one to find this look unattractive?

 

And Thanks for the updates Chris and All!

[jabbr]

3 hours ago, louisxiawei said:

Sorry for being off the topic a little bit, but are you suggesting it is difficult for DSD1024 to be bit-perfect to pass-through to D/A section?

 

what's the limit for discrete DSD DAC being able to support DSD1024 at the moment in terms of DAC design?

 

The current limitation is typically the interface which is often underpowered. Consider DSD1024 is about 45 Mhz, so everything has to have at the very least this bandwidth. More actually because there can be many things that have to happen between a clock cycle. Optical isolators start to have a hard time at 50 Mhz, but GMR can double that. Some CMOS logic has a hard time above 50 Mhz etc etc. Realistically the upper limit would be DSD2048 but the other issue is that there are diminishing returns to increasing the clock rate -- the very close in phase noise actually increases as the clock increases -- it very well could be that the "sweet spot" is DSD512.

 

3 hours ago, louisxiawei said:

 

I'm aware if using HQplayer to upsampling DSD1024 with certain filter, the algorithm must be huge and current hardware (CPU) may not fulfill, but must be some other reasons for DACs like T+A or your DCS1 only support sampling rate up to DSD512 at 44.1 and 48 bases.

 

 

 

The DSC1 can do DSD1024 with an appropriately capable USB or Ethernet interface.

[lucretius]

On ‎2017‎-‎05‎-‎19 at 9:55 AM, Solstice380 said:

 

Frank Zappa - Crew Slut

 

"we've got a present for you.  It looks just like a Telefunken U-47."

 

Never heard that?

http://www.telefunken-elektroakustik.com/literature/press/zappa_restoration.php

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Guys - Thanks for all the posts from people at the show and interested in the show. I think we are on to something here. When many people post, even a little bit, the coverage is far better than what one person (me) can do alone. Plus, we get great opinions about what was interesting, innovative, and sounded good/bad.

 

 

[The Computer Audiophile]

By the way, I met Morten Lindberg from 2L at the show. What a cool guy. I wrongly assumed he would be very hoity-toity, given the content of the albums on his label. I was so wrong. He is very down to Earth, knows a ton about good sound, and about the music business. I'm so happy I met him in person. 

[lucretius]

On ‎2017‎-‎05‎-‎20 at 11:57 AM, Jud said:

 

Did they get Frank Gehry to design that?

 

[matthias]

2 hours ago, woodford said:

what was Soundsmith showing?

 

VPI turntable

Schroeder Reference Arm

Strain Gauge cartridge

Signature SG Systems preamplifier

Signature amplifier

Monarch and Dragonfly speakers

[louisxiawei]

2 hours ago, jabbr said:

 

The DSC1 can do DSD1024 with an appropriately capable USB or Ethernet interface.

Thanks a lot for the detailed reply.

 

Seems like I'm out of date. First time to know DCS1 can support DSD1024 as well, although still seeing DCS1 on HQplayer's website still claims that it can support up to 24.576 MHz sampling rates. Maybe the DCS1 you mentioned is a bit different.

[monteverdi]

I thought that many of the listening booth were quite  o.k. often better than the hotel rooms I am finding at US shows. But he main floor exhibits with out a separate booth were absolutely unlistenable. This applies to many demos using headphones. Even if at lot of open designs are sounding better it is an idiotic choice under these conditions. The epitomy of this was the Sonoma Headphone demo, a new electrostatic design and the completely clueless rep was just talking to another visitor next to my ear. Thus I have no idea if that is a headphone to investigate, just a waste of time!

[matthias]

34 minutes ago, monteverdi said:

I thought that many of the listening booth were quite  o.k. often better than the hotel rooms I am finding at US shows. But he main floor exhibits with out a separate booth were absolutely unlistenable. 

 

+1

I am not able to understand why companies like Playback Designs or Merging have neither a room in one of the atria nor a listening booth in the halls. 

Soundsmith for example offered a good listening environment in a small booth in Halle 3.

 

Matt

[Ralf11]

an co. specializing in active noise cancellation could really exhibit their tech by setting up in between 2 other rooms...

[Maldur]

52 minutes ago, louisxiawei said:

Thanks a lot for the detailed reply.

 

Seems like I'm out of date. First time to know DCS1 can support DSD1024 as well, although still seeing DCS1 on HQplayer's website still claims that it can support up to 24.576 MHz sampling rates. Maybe the DCS1 you mentioned is a bit different.

It depends, how high the flip-flop can go. In my version FF can go to ca 170MHz. Analog stage behind flip-flop is another story, just filter frequencies not optimised for that. 

[Miska]

1 hour ago, monteverdi said:

I thought that many of the listening booth were quite  o.k. often better than the hotel rooms I am finding at US shows. But he main floor exhibits with out a separate booth were absolutely unlistenable. This applies to many demos using headphones. Even if at lot of open designs are sounding better it is an idiotic choice under these conditions. The epitomy of this was the Sonoma Headphone demo, a new electrostatic design and the completely clueless rep was just talking to another visitor next to my ear. Thus I have no idea if that is a headphone to investigate, just a waste of time!

 

Stax was clever enough to have a separate listening room in the hall! I listened to the SR-009 there.

[EuroChamp]

I was at the show on Saturday only, but all day long. I listened to almost all of the systems. Some of them where not very promising, when I entered the room, so I left immediately and went to the next one.

 

I don't want to talk about, what was not so good.

But I want to list my best sounding systems in the order, I listened to them:

 

• Blumenhofer with Octave (digital)
• Joseph Audio with Alluxity (digital)
• Tune Audio with Trafomatic (vinyl)
• Marten with MSB (vinyl)
• Thrax with Thrax (digital)
• MBL with MBL (digital)
• Blumenhofer with Mastersound (vinyl)

 

And the Dynaudio Special 40 with NAD needs a mention too. But not compareable. The small TAD was really good too.

[TubeLover]

13 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Hi Guys - Thanks for all the posts from people at the show and interested in the show. I think we are on to something here. When many people post, even a little bit, the coverage is far better than what one person (me) can do alone. Plus, we get great opinions about what was interesting, innovative, and sounded good/bad.

 

 

Chris, Nikhil, and everyone who provided coverage of the show, thank you. It's been extremely informative.

 

JC

[EuroChamp]

Some pictures of the extremely good sounding systems. Not complete ... 

[The Computer Audiophile]

8 hours ago, EuroChamp said:

Some pictures of the extremely good sounding systems. Not complete ... 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I think this Marten room was my best of show.