TubeLover

I don't know the Voyage album, but couldn't agree more about a good 2008 Brunello! JC

I've been there, trust me, there was no music. JC

I stumbled across this earlier, and found it to be something that has earned it's place here amongst us. Who could disagree, and that, in the end, is what this is all about. "Without music, life is a journey through a desert." Pat Conroy

I realize that I did not take action that could have resolved this entire mess and left me at peace about it now. In the beginning, when he pulled out of the deal, after having paid me, I should have simply had the speakers delivered, on the day that had been designated, and if he refused to let the guys I hired bring them into his home, I should have instructed them to leave them on his front porch (which they would have completely filled). That would have been the end of the whole thing for me and I erred in not following that path. JC

Well said Paul. And also a reason for a major part of my irritation here. This "friend" has loaned, in some cases, up to $10k to people and freely admitted that he didn't expect to see a cent of it back, and would never ask for it back. And many of these "loans" are ten or more years old and he has acted as he said. Yet he busts my chops and demands payment now in a mess that he solely created?

I think you might be more than a bit surprised at how much business Zu does, or, for that matter Schiit. These are companies that do very well, and do not have any great need to advertise or promote themselves. They are already selling at the rate they can effectively supportPerhaps it has never occurred to you that in many instances, those audio companies who are extremely visible and have ads in every audio publication must do that to generate business. In many other fields, visible companies who advertise freely and will do anything to promote themselves are to be avoided at all costs. Thats especially true in the wine business, the beer business and in law/legal and medical venues. If you have to advertise, you're already a low end product, at best. JC

There have been a number of comments in the same spirit as this one, and I understand them. I have given this situation an immense amount of thought, I can tell you that regardless of what takes place from here on, as unfortunate as it is, the friendship is clearly and ultimately over from my perspective. A true friend does not back out of a sweetheart deal from another friend, that he committed to. Much less one that he absolutely promised to go through with when sternly questioned at the time. I had concerns from some previous situations, and I asked him, up front, if he would guarantee, and promise, that this was truly what he wanted, a done deal, and one he would honor to completion. A true friend does not back out of such a deal at the last minute, particularly for no good reason, knowing that his failure to make good on his promise had just put me in the position of having turned down an alternate $4000.00 deal, with the speakers being picked up in days by another party. A true friend does not then also then state that "it's not about the money, I could care less about the money. You don't need to pay me back, I don't need the money back, and I don't expect you to pay me back, it's my fault that it worked out this way!" and come back to me nearly a year later demanding his money and wanting to know when he would be getting it! I went out of my way offering him at least some of his money back months ago, something I had no responsibility to do, but clearly that wasn't good enough. Additionally this situation forced me into the position of having the speakers essentially eliminate use of my spare bedroom for most of a year. It also put me in the position of placing repeated for sale ads in numerous places, and caused me entire days of lost time working with people traveling from as far away as 500 miles to purchase the speakers. Providing directions, walking them in to my extremely confusing geographic area, having people on hand to assist in loading the equipment, etc. etc. etc. I have always prided myself in being unquestionably honest and ethical. I've sold a ton of audio equipment over the years and have gone well out of my way to make customers happy. This, though, is a very different situation. A friend does not put me into the position he has, for any number of reasons. Even give that, and all of the above, I now plan to pay him back the entire $2,500.00. Do I feel he is entitled to that full amount? No. Will I feel better after paying it to him? Absolutely not, in fact, it will likely leave me angry and bitter about the entire situation for as long as I remember it. Paying him immediately is also very inconvenient right at this point in time due to some major (at least to me) recent unexpected financial setbacks, but I can still accomplish it. I will pace an order to cash in my one remaining stock, and contact my tax guy on Monday, and tell him that I need him to file for an extension (on money I owe unexpectedly due to my former employers pension mistake). I should be able to pay that off to the IRS, with interest, obviously, after six months to put together the funds. But, sometimes taking the path of being the better person is simply one that should be taken. He will get every cent of his money, and his last and final contact with me early next week. Thanks again for everyone who commented on what is, at least to me, a situation with no possible positive ending. I appreciate all of your perspectives. JC

Sorry for not having worded things better. What I was intending to say was that the $4k offered by the other part y included an additional $1,500.00 over the heavily discounted rate of $2500.00 that I sold the speakers to my friend for. JC

Thanks again to everyone who has responded thus far. I am thankful you took the time to consider this and provide your thoughts. I have to say that I am puzzled that no one has mentioned any consideration of the fact that, when backing out of the deal, my friend said, in very clear terms, that given how things happened, he neither wanted or expected a cent of his money back. Does that somehow not matter in evaluating the situation? JC

Again, I do appreciate the perspective. The l strongly feel that loss of the $1500.00 is completely legitimate, though. An acquaintance called and made me the offer to purchase the speakers for $4k, and was set to pick them up two days later. The only reason I turned it down was that I had made the deal and been paid by my friend a week or so earlier. When my friend backed out on the deal, without any valid reason, how is the loss of the $4k (and the additional $1,500.00) I turned down (honoring his purchase) not legitimate? JC

Agreed. I think creating an area to discuss cables here, with the suggested constraints, is a great idea. JC

Sean is indeed a great guy. Some years back, over the course of a few months, he was helping me track a pair of Zu Druid speakers that had been discontinued. He spent quite a number of hours with me on the phone, where we discussed everything from room size, to ideal amps, to music etc. I wasn't even buying a pair of speakers that he would be making money on and he still was kind enough to spend that time on the phone with me. Eventually, he located a pair that no one realized existed, except his sales manager, who still had them at his home to demo for potential customers who might have been amongst guests to his house. Sean had them replaced with the then new Druid V. He had the older versions sent back to the factory for a complete reworking, and then sold them to me at virtually the used price, with full warranty and 30 day in home guarantee. What a pleasure it was getting to know him, and dealing with him. One of the truly outstanding people in audio. JC

I certainly do not feel it is as clear cut as that. Yes, I received $2500.00. He also refused to take delivery of the speakers. In the process of backing out, he cost me an offer of $4000.00, my original (non-good friend) asking price. I do appreciate everyone's perspective, though. That is what I asked for, after all. JC

Just to be clear, if you were my friend, you would also have told me "it's not about the money, I could care less about the money. You don't need to pay me back, I don't need the money back, and I don't expect you to pay me back!" JC

About a year ago, I was just about to sell off the speaker system from my home theater after replacing the very old (but still good quality) system with a new one that an unexpected windfall made possible. I was just about to put it up for sale, when an old, and valued friend who knows the system well, from many nights enjoying films through it, told me, wait, I want to buy the speakers! I had planned to offer the whole speaker system for sale at around $4000-4500.00 and had mentioned that to a few home theater enthusiasts/acquaintances locally. He was aware of the prices I had discussed with some of these mutual acquaintances and asked if he got a discount, as my dear friend of nearly 25 years. I agreed to sell him everything for only $2,500.00, as a discount for a very good friend. All was fine at this point. I didn't regret giving a close friend the break on cost, and he would have loved the speakers in his house. However, you must know that while this individual had purchased some audio gear previously, a couple times in recent years, he had also committed to purchase equipment from me, and then realizing that he was going to have to rearrange his house, change things, or for whatever other reasons that entered his mind, had backed out, at the last minute. One of those situations, in particular, caused me some big headaches. And so, the first discussion that we had up front was that if he insisted on buying these, he had to follow through with it, and we discussed the past issues. He promised that he wanted the speaker system, would pay me right away, and we would work to get them delivered asap. He then paid me the money, a day or two later, and I was working on arranging a delivery to his house. He asked for a couple weeks to get his house rearranged so his living room accommodate the somewhat large speakers. At his request, I even managed to arrange for some help to deliver the equipment to his house and place it, as he has physical limitations and could not manage it himself. Things were all set for two weeks out and a Saturday delivery. The day before the delivery, he called to say that he had not yet been able to clear out the necessary space, and could we reschedule it for a week later, which I did. That same day, another acquaintance called me, said he had heard I was selling my home theater speakers and said he wanted them, and would happily pay the $4000.00 that he heard I was asking. I had to explain that I had already sold them to a close friend. I did help him shop for a home theater speaker system that weekend, which he purchased, and is happy with. The Thursday before the scheduled delivery of the speakers to his house, that following week, my friend called me, and in one of his occasional irrational moods, told me that I needed to cancel the delivery, that he had made a mistake. He no longer wanted the speakers, it was just all going to be too much of a problem for him to deal with. I told him that I had just turned down an offer of the full $4k that I had wanted originally because he had guaranteed me that he would not back out on this deal. I also told him that I had used the money he paid me to pay off a debt and didn't even have the money available. He proceeded to tell me that, and I quote "it's not about the money, I could care less about the money. You don't need to pay me back, I don't need the money back, and I don't expect you to pay me back, it's my fault that it worked out this way!" All of which, honestly, I was in agreement with. Over the year since, because of the size and weight of the speakers, and the fact that I had no boxes for the main speakers which were 5 feet tall and 225 lbs each, and with drivers front and rear, I had to advertise them as a local pickup only. Something that really limits the market, and, what you can charge. I ended up having to sell them off, a pair at a time, to people who were either local, or chose to drive to get them from a few hundred miles away. I ended up just breaking even at that $2,500.00 mark of what I had originally received in payment from my friend. After pondering things, it didn't sit well with me that he get nothing back at all, despite his pronouncements, and so, when I saw him a few months ago for dinner, I brought up the topic. I reminded him that I had to pass up the offer of $4k for the speaker system because I honored his original purchase and agreement to buy them prior to the offer being made. I explained the difficulty that I had been forced to go through selling them off piece by piece, and locally. I then, despite him having told me he expected no repayment, I said I felt like I wanted to give back something. I then offered him $1,000.00, the difference between what he had paid, on the giveaway price that I had sold them to him for ($2,500.00) , and what I lost out on from the offer to purchase from the other guy locally who wanted them ($4000.00), before my friend suddenly backed out. He acted offended, and said he expected the entire amount back, at which point I got up and left out of frustration and having no desire to make a scene or say something regrettable. I've not spoken to him for the last three months because I honestly feel that I went out of my way to be fair about this situation and was offended at his insistence that he receive every dollar back. Especially after he had told me, point blank, that he neither wanted, or expected back a cent of the money after what happened. And, additionally, this is someone who has, over the years I've known him, loaned significant sums of money to numerous friends and has never received, or asked for payment back. He has even joked about never even expecting the money back. Earlier this evening, he sent me an e-mail asking when we could discuss my paying him what I owed him for the speaker purchase. I find myself, again, greatly irritated at his presumption and stance on this matter. There are a great number of people who I respect in this forum. Your perspective on what is the right thing to do in these circumstances would be appreciated, as I am struggling greatly with this situation. Thanks. JC