Light Harmonic (LH Labs). Scam? USD$6 million not delivered since 2014

[opus101]

On 1/3/2021 at 11:59 AM, Jud said:

Is someone familiar with PCBs able to tell me whether this looks like a PCB lifted from gaming headset electronics, or might actually be a PCB for a DAP?

 

This board is entirely plausible as a DAP. There's a card slot bottom left, a USB (C?) socket left centre and an audio out jack above that. On the right halfway down there's a connector that looks like it could feed an LCD screen. Right at the bottom there's an RF connector perhaps for BT or WiFi. The only mystery to me is why the 4 off ES9038Q2M DAC chips for a stereo unit? Do they need to headline an exceptionally low noise floor through paralleling?

[EdmontonCanuck]

13 hours ago, stuck limo said:

 

 

The Wave still uses ESS Sabre DAC chips for audio. 

 

Still? 

[AgentXXL]

I'm OK with it still using ESS Sabre DACs. In the past I've found that I usually preferred the sound signature of the ESS over ones from AK. That's likely moot these days as there has been newer revisions of DACs from both and the general consensus is that the newer revisions are much more similar in their sound signature. Certainly there's users out there who claim they can still hear the difference. As my ears have aged along with the rest of me, I'm noticing some drop-off in my ability to determine the differences.

 

I'm actually back in the market for another Bluetooth DAC/amp as my Fiio BTR5 'blew up' 2 days ago after the LiOn battery overheated and bulged, enough to pop the front glass panel off and crack the internal circuit board. I've contacted Fiio about it but no response yet and there likely won't be as they only cover battery issues for 6 months and the device itself for a year. And this happened 1 week past the warranty date.

 

I still really enjoyed the sonics from the balanced output of the BTR5 - it seemed to be a great unit for use with my Shure SE846 IEMs and a MEE Audio balanced MMCX cable. I'm tempted to just buy another BTR5 but I'm also looking at Fiio's Q5s TC. The Q5s TC uses AK DACs but also a higher power THX AAA amplifier module. The Q5s has the same amp module connection as some of Fiio's other amp products so it can be swapped out for different amp modules. Alas the Q5s TC is just over 3x the price of a new BTR5.

 

Even if LH does come through with the Wave, these days I'm fine with using a phone as my source device with an outboard DAC/headphone amp. The Q5s TC can also act as a USB DAC for a PC or other supported devices like a NVidia Shield Pro. And it has the capability of processing up to 768khz/32 bit audio and features DSD512 native decoding. No MQA support but I'm not convinced MQA is going to do anything better for me with my aging hearing. I've tried a couple of comparisons of DSD512 vs  MQA and couldn't hear the difference. In fact I couldn't tell the difference between DSD256 and DSD512 anymore.

 

Regardless, the movement on the Wave is still extremely sluggish, and does nothing for those of us that are waiting on multiple products. And now even my Pulse Blue that was delivered has failed. So the only working LH products I have are the LPS4 power supply and a Geek Out V2 Infinity, neither of which have seen use in over a year. Still pretty sad.... if I had the $6300 US back in my bank account, at least I could more easily find alternate products to meet my needs.

[TomScrut]

On 1/3/2021 at 3:59 AM, Jud said:

LH's latest update

 

Where is this update?

[TomScrut]

8 minutes ago, AgentXXL said:

Pulse Blue that was delivered has failed.

 

I didn't know they got made.

 

Did they do any of the VI DACs? 

[AgentXXL]

1 minute ago, TomScrut said:

 

I didn't know they got made.

 

Did they do any of the VI DACs? 

 

Not that I'm aware of.

 

3 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

 

Where is this update?

 

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/geek-wave-a-no-compromise-portable-music-player?utm_source=sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=bck-01022021update&utm_term=#/updates/all

 

but you should also receive it via email if you've allowed Indiegogo to do that.

 

[TomScrut]

On 11/2/2020 at 5:16 PM, EdmontonCanuck said:

I wish they would just come right out and admit that the Wave won't be delivered rather than playing these silly "if you don't want to wait take this instead" game. Of course I'd take the Stella if I knew the Wave won't be delivered....who wouldn't? Of course it's better to get something rather than nothing, even though I don't need nor want an IEM.

 

This whole saga is really depressing.

 

The thing is, I have my suspicions that these IEPs could have been designed and made to effectively shut people up. Make them with an artificially high RRP and then palm them off on people willing to have something rather than nothing.

 

Does anybody know of anyone that has actually bought these headphones at RRP? Where would you buy them?

[TomScrut]

1 minute ago, AgentXXL said:

 

Not that I'm aware of.

 

 

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/geek-wave-a-no-compromise-portable-music-player?utm_source=sailthru&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=bck-01022021update&utm_term=#/updates/all

 

but you should also receive it via email if you've allowed Indiegogo to do that.

 

 

Thanks, I don't sub to the Wave as I didn't back it but I thought I had checked it's page.

 

Is there any way of contacting LH now? It seems they haven't a website yet are doing updates to Indiegogo! Very odd.

[AgentXXL]

Just now, TomScrut said:

 

Thanks, I don't sub to the Wave as I didn't back it but I thought I had checked it's page.

 

Is there any way of contacting LH now? It seems they haven't a website yet are doing updates to Indiegogo! Very odd.

 

To my knowledge, most attempts at contacting 'them' have been through the main Light Harmonic website. I suspect 'them' is really only Larry Ho these days, and I'm certain he's not courageous enough to reach out and contact/apologize to individuals. He's always used his former schill, @stuck limo.

 

http://lightharmonic.com/

 

[Mike Rubin]

44 minutes ago, TomScrut said:

Did they do any of the VI DACs? 

Literal handful before they started complaining about the casings and derailed the production.

 

I had this one, which I sold not long ago.  It was a really excellent-sounding and easy-on-the-eyes unit, to be fair, and it played any format I could throw at it, but a bit of a deadend once LH lost interest in it.

[TomScrut]

23 minutes ago, Mike Rubin said:

Literal handful before they started complaining about the casings and derailed the production.

 

I thought at the time them casings sounded too good to be true at the price!

 

Good to see you got one though!

[stuck limo]

6 hours ago, EdmontonCanuck said:

 

Still? 

 

Yes, they have in the past and will continue to use ESS Sabre DACs on the Wave, as do many other companies. 

[stuck limo]

5 hours ago, TomScrut said:

 

 

Is there any way of contacting LH now? It seems they haven't a website yet are doing updates to Indiegogo! Very odd.

 

You can email [email protected] and someone in the office will get it.

[EdmontonCanuck]

15 hours ago, stuck limo said:

 

Yes, they have in the past and will continue to use ESS Sabre DACs on the Wave, as do many other companies. 

 

I think you missed the sarcasm in my post.

[jjraffin]

On 1/5/2021 at 5:43 AM, Mike Rubin said:

Literal handful before they started complaining about the casings and derailed the production.

 

I had this one, which I sold not long ago.  It was a really excellent-sounding and easy-on-the-eyes unit, to be fair, and it played any format I could throw at it, but a bit of a deadend once LH lost interest in it.

More than what I got. No Vi Tube for me at all.

[winning]

I’m glad to here somebody received their Vi DAC. I spent over $8,000 and have not received anything. I also have about 15 email chains with various people at Light Harmonic promising it was shipped or will be shipping soon. And another 15 emails chain unanswered. Very disappointed.

[germay0653]

1 hour ago, winning said:

I’m glad to here somebody received their Vi DAC. I spent over $8,000 and have not received anything. I also have about 15 email chains with various people at Light Harmonic promising it was shipped or will be shipping soon. And another 15 emails chain unanswered. Very disappointed.

 

We're pretty much in the same boat.  For me, it was over $10K and I have nothing, a big fat goose egg, to show for it.  I trusted Larry's reputation based on the Da Vinci and got burned badly!  Suffice it to say, Crowdfunding will not be in my future.

[AgentXXL]

14 hours ago, germay0653 said:

 

We're pretty much in the same boat.  For me, it was over $10K and I have nothing, a big fat goose egg, to show for it.  I trusted Larry's reputation based on the Da Vinci and got burned badly!  Suffice it to say, Crowdfunding will not be in my future.

 

The same for me re: crowdfunding. The whole LH fiasco has made it very difficult for me to support any further crowd-funding campaigns. I've only supported one on Kickstarter since, but it was a guaranteed item and was delivered as promised. There has been a few Indiegogo campaigns that I've been interested in, but as Indiegogo themselves won't take any responsibility or action against LH, I refuse to give them anymore business. And I now warn acquaintances whenever they mention they're thinking about contributing to a campaign. The closest I've come to crowd-funding since has been Drop (MassDrop), but everything I've ordered from them has come through as expected.

 

And for those interested, Fiio responded to my support request about the BTR5 that blew up when the battery overheated. Even though it happened 1 week past warranty, they're willing to repair it for a very affordable surcharge as long as I send the unit back to them in China. They asked that I remove the battery before shipping so I've had to disassemble it further, but they said no problem, they'll repair or replace it.

 

I also bit the bullet and ordered the Q5s TC. It might get here today, but tomorrow for sure. Looking forward to trying it out, especially as it has the much more powerful amplifier and can support some full-size cans as well as my IEMs.

 

 

 

[gikigill]

Is there anyway for me to join the Class Action Lawsuit.

 

LHLabs offered to send me a few IEMs in exchange for my Wave and now has cut off email communication after I questioned the postage charges of $80 considering I have already paid them thousands.

 

The nerve to ask for more money after 6 years of delay.

 

I'm happy to lodge a complaint with the DAs office or an Amicus Curiae as I will be travelling to the USA once this COVID business is under control.

[Mike Rubin]

4 hours ago, gikigill said:

Is there anyway for me to join the Class Action Lawsuit.

 

LHLabs offered to send me a few IEMs in exchange for my Wave and now has cut off email communication after I questioned the postage charges of $80 considering I have already paid them thousands.

 

The nerve to ask for more money after 6 years of delay.

 

I'm happy to lodge a complaint with the DAs office or an Amicus Curiae as I will be travelling to the USA once this COVID business is under control.

The complaints to government agencies - not a class action lawsuit, as earlier posts in this thread point out - long ago were filed.  It is not possible to join now.  We, however, requested that any governmental relief be extended to all purchasers, whether named in a complaint or not, so you may receive the same benefits as those who are parties to the filings. 

 

That said, it looks as though nothing has changed at LH. I am sorry you have had yet another terrible experience doing business with the worst seller in the world. 

[Qhwoeprktiyns]

Gavin Fish is shamelessly proud of his achievements: https://gavin.fish/about/

 

"In 2017, Gavin returned to technical consulting after a successful career in digital marketing and crowdfunding in the high-end audio field, where he was called The Big Crowdfunding Lebowski because of his ability to raise capital through that platform. Gavin was the first person to achieve back-to-back campaigns that surpassed $1MM raised. He broke records again when he achieved the feat back-to-back-to-back."

[The Computer Audiophile]

19 minutes ago, hopkins said:

Gavin Fish is shamelessly proud of his achievements: https://gavin.fish/about/

 

"In 2017, Gavin returned to technical consulting after a successful career in digital marketing and crowdfunding in the high-end audio field, where he was called The Big Crowdfunding Lebowski because of his ability to raise capital through that platform. Gavin was the first person to achieve back-to-back campaigns that surpassed $1MM raised. He broke records again when he achieved the feat back-to-back-to-back."

Wow.

[Jud]

2 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Wow.

Larry Ho was a speaker in at least one seminar in Taiwan as an expert on launching businesses through crowdfunding, though that was a few years ago. It might still be on a Taiwanese/Chinese CV, though - who knows?

[bernardperu]

I have brought this up before, but here I go again: If we want Larry Ho to listen to us, then, someone needs to go to China based Hi-Fi forums and tell them what happened in the USA. You should include links to this forum and the ones in Head-Fi. I'll be happy to help out with some guidance (I am an expert on online marketing).

 

In the past, LH Labs offered me money NOT to do this. I know for a fact this is their Achilles heel. 

 

Larry may not give everything back, but he is very likely to "reward" the individuals who threaten his reputation/business. 

[The Computer Audiophile]

15 minutes ago, Jud said:

Larry Ho was a speaker in at least one seminar in Taiwan as an expert on launching businesses through crowdfunding, though that was a few years ago. It might still be on a Taiwanese/Chinese CV, though - who knows?

Just when you think it can't be worse, it is.