Light Harmonic (LH Labs). Scam? USD$6 million not delivered since 2014

[labjr]

Enough with the small talk! When are the refunds gonna start? Why would anyone want a DAC from LH at this point? You obviously have no intention of delivering anything. Bedsides, these days you can get a $99 DAC that sounds better than anything that existed five years ago.

[PorkChop]

11 hours ago, labjr said:

Enough with the small talk! When are the refunds gonna start? Why would anyone want a DAC from LH at this point? You obviously have no intention of delivering anything. Bedsides, these days you can get a $99 DAC that sounds better than anything that existed five years ago.

 

Agree. This has gotten past the point of ridiculous.  Refunds are the ONLY action that makes sense at this stage of the game. I'll even waive the interest for floating Larry the money to develop products other than the ones I pledged for.

[Cecil]

On 12/25/2019 at 3:45 AM, Jud said:

I wonder if any other business in the history of Kickstarter and Indiegogo has had so many projects and customers left without products or refunds.

 

What an infamous distinction that would be!

 

One of (the many) frustrations I've had is that Indiegogo has shown no interest whatsoever in doing anything about what has gone on here. I, like others, contacted them a very long time ago and they made it quite clear that any issues I had with a campaign was between me and the campaign owner.

 

According to the California AG,

 

Quote

If you are suspicious of, learn of, or become a victim of a crowdfunding scam, first notify the crowdfunding platform. Many of these platforms have people who investigate suspicious projects. They may even refund your money.

 

However it seems Indiegogo is a crowdfunding platform that takes no responsibility in enabling the success of scams and thus offers no help to victims. They are quite happy though to take their cut.

 

 

 

[AgentXXL]

I've only just come across this forum but will do my best to add my information to the complaint being filed against LH Labs. I'm owed over $5K US worth of gear, including the Pulse DAC Infinity that started all the hype. The only items I've received from LH Labs are the now-useless LPS4 power supply, the Pulse Blue, a Pulse Geek Infinity and an assortment of cables.

 

I've been in failing health for the last 2.5 years so I've not followed up often on the whole LH Labs fiasco. Just thinking about the funds I gave them has me furious now, especially since I'm on disability and don't have the money to buy alternates to what I ordered.

 

Larry Ho should be ashamed of himself for taking advantage of the community as he has. It may not be entirely his fault, but as he's the primary at Light Harmonic and LH Labs, he's the one who's still wasting our hard-earned contributions on his own lifestyle.

 

FYI - I don't know if LH still makes a 3rd party audio system for Tesla owners, but I did warn Tesla owners (I'm not one) of the potential for LH to scam them as well.

 

I'll now go collect my info on my contributions and try to add it to the complaint.

 

[Mike Rubin]

6 hours ago, AgentXXL said:

I've only just come across this forum but will do my best to add my information to the complaint being filed against LH Labs. I'm owed over $5K US worth of gear, including the Pulse DAC Infinity that started all the hype. The only items I've received from LH Labs are the now-useless LPS4 power supply, the Pulse Blue, a Pulse Geek Infinity and an assortment of cables.

 

I've been in failing health for the last 2.5 years so I've not followed up often on the whole LH Labs fiasco. Just thinking about the funds I gave them has me furious now, especially since I'm on disability and don't have the money to buy alternates to what I ordered.

 

Larry Ho should be ashamed of himself for taking advantage of the community as he has. It may not be entirely his fault, but as he's the primary at Light Harmonic and LH Labs, he's the one who's still wasting our hard-earned contributions on his own lifestyle.

 

FYI - I don't know if LH still makes a 3rd party audio system for Tesla owners, but I did warn Tesla owners (I'm not one) of the potential for LH to scam them as well.

 

I'll now go collect my info on my contributions and try to add it to the complaint.

 

It does not appear that I can send you a private message here, so please see if you can send me one to which I can respond.  I would like to update you regarding the status of the AG complaint.  

[noshortcuts]

On 12/26/2019 at 3:16 PM, Cecil said:

 

One of (the many) frustrations I've had is that Indiegogo has shown no interest whatsoever in doing anything about what has gone on here. I, like others, contacted them a very long time ago and they made it quite clear that any issues I had with a campaign was between me and the campaign owner.

 

According to the California AG,

 

 

However it seems Indiegogo is a crowdfunding platform that takes no responsibility in enabling the success of scams and thus offers no help to victims. They are quite happy though to take their cut.

 

 

 

I really think Indiegogo has the values and actions of serious criminals - they only care about easy money. Lucky for them that they have created a website platform that just sits there and generates just that - easy money ("crowd funding").

 

Gogo does nothing but provide this web platform. Anyone can post any (marketing) campaign in the hopes of generating cash. People post ideas with the best marketing they can muster and then see how much money rolls in. Gogo doesn't care if a campaign makes nothing,  $5, or 50 million because their job is done and they get a cut for doing nothing but providing the website platform.

 

Sure, some campaigns actually deliver on promises but the odds are not good for those contributing money. This is because some campaigns are scams from the start and many more "want to provide what they promise" but aren't equipped to do so. A campaign can fail at any point. Starting from the beginning, it's easy to find campaigns that  set goals far too low and even when they exceed the goal it's literally impossible to pay what it takes to design, test, manufacture, and ship the product.

 

Let's not forget the money is not accounted for by anyone. How and when a campaign spends the money that they collected is up to them.

 

Gogo appears to enjoy a legal loophole that allows this insanity. That loophole needs to become a noose.

 

Any of us can create a marketing campaign of fancy photos and exciting text promising the moon for a "low - low price" and post it on Indiegogo. If the marketing generates even a dollar, Gogo takes their cut and sits back doing nothing. The person(s) posting the campaign collect and then do whatever they wan with the money. -AFAICT

[noshortcuts]

All those who contributed to the spreadsheet of losses - please check your email and Spam for email from: [email protected].

The deadline is Jan. 3rd to confirm that you will "join the complaint". To join you need to read the email and attachments and send back one document.

Happy New Year!

[Jud]

21 hours ago, noshortcuts said:

All those who contributed to the spreadsheet of losses - please check your email and Spam for email from: [email protected].

The deadline is Jan. 3rd to confirm that you will "join the complaint". To join you need to read the email and attachments and send back one document.

Happy New Year!

Bump.

[r3dsh1ft]

New to the forum. How do I sign up for the complaint?

[AgentXXL]

1 hour ago, r3dsh1ft said:

New to the forum. How do I sign up for the complaint?

Just in case no-one has sent you the details via PM, send your request to be added to the [email protected] email address. Markus or Mike should be in touch to send you the required info and consent.

[montpierjazz]

On 12/24/2019 at 5:32 PM, Mike Rubin said:

Ouch!

 

No one should drag poor Teri Hatcher anywhere near this discussion.

 

Hey Mike - just submitted my info and signed consent form to Markus.  BIG THANK YOU to Mike & Markus and everyone else involved in getting this off the ground. 

 

Today's the deadline so anyone who has griped about the behavior of Larry Ho with respect to LH Labs should take the time to submit their information to [email protected] and (to paraphrase the infamous Gavin Fish....) Join us and 20,000 passionate audiophiles to obtain refunds for never delivered game-changing ultra high performance audio gear.

 

(And Mike, was glancing back at recent thread posts and the above comment is hilarious.  Too bad Seinfeld is no longer around.  Imagine an episode which starts with George steaming about contributing to a crowdfunding campaign that turned out to be a fraud and sending Kramer to China to confront those responsible...) 

[Mike Rubin]

2 hours ago, montpierjazz said:

 

Hey Mike - just submitted my info and signed consent form to Markus.  BIG THANK YOU to Mike & Markus and everyone else involved in getting this off the ground. 

 

Today's the deadline so anyone who has griped about the behavior of Larry Ho with respect to LH Labs should take the time to submit their information to [email protected] and (to paraphrase the infamous Gavin Fish....) Join us and 20,000 passionate audiophiles to obtain refunds for never delivered game-changing ultra high performance audio gear.

 

(And Mike, was glancing back at recent thread posts and the above comment is hilarious.  Too bad Seinfeld is no longer around.  Imagine an episode which starts with George steaming about contributing to a crowdfunding campaign that turned out to be a fraud and sending Kramer to China to confront those responsible...) 

Thanks for the reminder to the crew that we need as many folks as possible to pile on here.  Please review the draft complaint and send Markus your completed authorizations ASAP.  

 

In reviewing the draft, please be aware there is a known issue with the page numbering, an artifact of conversion from Word .docx to .pdf. I am working on this as the pagination obviously needs to be right when we submit. 

 

Will keep all participants posted. Thanks for your support. 

 

And montpier, Seinfeld was insidiously funny.  LH remains merely insidious! 

[r3dsh1ft]

12 hours ago, AgentXXL said:

Just in case no-one has sent you the details via PM, send your request to be added to the [email protected] email address. Markus or Mike should be in touch to send you the required info and consent.

 

Thank you for the reply!

 

Markus was quick to email me the necessary information. I have completed the consent form and returned it to him.

[erniejade]

Just submitted mine along with a copy of the extra shipping bill even though I paid shipping in the campaign.     Thanks everyone for helping with this.  

[Cecil]

Put a reminder over at head fi for potential 'joiners', but it was deleted by the moderator following a complaint from someone claiming that the post broke the forum rules regarding legal proceedings.

 

Not really sure whether lodging a complaint with the AG is deemed a legal proceeding, but I respect the moderator's decision. 

[Jud]

24 minutes ago, Cecil said:

Put a reminder over at head fi for potential 'joiners', but it was deleted by the moderator following a complaint from someone claiming that the post broke the forum rules regarding legal proceedings.

 

Not really sure whether lodging a complaint with the AG is deemed a legal proceeding, but I respect the moderator's decision. 

 

Yes, I simply linked over here and asked people to check it out, and that was deleted as well.

[Beefalo]

1 hour ago, Cecil said:

Put a reminder over at head fi for potential 'joiners', but it was deleted by the moderator following a complaint from someone claiming that the post broke the forum rules regarding legal proceedings.

 

Not really sure whether lodging a complaint with the AG is deemed a legal proceeding, but I respect the moderator's decision. 

Jarek is on the job (non-paid lol). He’s had a couple of my posts removed from that thread for calling him nothing more than a troll at this point. He must have some relationship with a moderator beyond just an industry one.

[Cecil]

10 hours ago, Beefalo said:

Jarek is on the job (non-paid lol). He’s had a couple of my posts removed from that thread for calling him nothing more than a troll at this point. He must have some relationship with a moderator beyond just an industry one.

 

If it is Jarek he's really on the ball with getting posts deleted as mine lasted a very short time. He's very loyal to Larry if he really is working for zilch. 

 

 

[Currawong]

12 hours ago, Beefalo said:

Jarek is on the job (non-paid lol). He’s had a couple of my posts removed from that thread for calling him nothing more than a troll at this point. He must have some relationship with a moderator beyond just an industry one.

 

As an ex-admin of Head-Fi, I can say for certain that that kind of BS does not go on there. 

[Beefalo]

6 minutes ago, Currawong said:

 

As an ex-admin of Head-Fi, I can say for certain that that kind of BS does not go on there. 

As an ex-king of industry I say OK. 
 

[stuck limo]

6 hours ago, Currawong said:

 

As an ex-admin of Head-Fi, I can say for certain that that kind of BS does not go on there. 

 

You've talked extensively (at least, I believe it was you, and I was trying to find your posts about this to quote here) about Head-Fi not wanting to be involved in anything legal matters, and would delete any mention of them. I (and others, probably including you) have mentioned that Head-Fi runs a very tight ship and mods patrol threads and clean them up as necessary.

 

As an ex-mod at Head-Fi, who has a lot of respect around the forums, I would think your words would carry weight. However, I see members here disregard your statements, continue to post legal matters/proceedings, and then be shocked when Head-Fi deletes them, and then they blame it on me or supposedly corrupt Head-Fi admins. [Full disclosure: I have never, ever, reported a post on HF for legal proceedings against LH] 

 

19 hours ago, Beefalo said:

Jarek...had a couple of my posts removed from that thread for calling him nothing more than a troll at this point. 

 

I know exactly which posts you're talking about, and I did not report those or mention them to the mods at Head-Fi.  As previously stated, the mods patrol those threads. You repeatedly broke (according to the mods, at least) Head-Fi rules and did personal attacks and name calling. Your posts are public; the mods can read them and take action. I don't need to report them; the mods can do all of that action on their own. I'm sure @Currawong can verify for you the action mods take in threads.

 

In FACT, I specifically asked the mods (long after you continued to publicly blame me for deleted posts) if I could obtain a copy of my "Reported Posts" because every time you broke the rules and got deleted, you blamed me.

 

Attached screenshot is the request for the report and the information I received. You (or anyone) can check that Request date and match it against when your post deletions started (if that information still exists somewhere). It was after those deletions and after you continued to blame me for mod actions. 

 

Anyway, we/I will probably be on the forums discussing LH L matters less this year, unless the need arises or something. It's just not productive enough, for a variety of reasons, and usually leads to bad feelings.

 

8 hours ago, Cecil said:

 

If it is Jarek he's really on the ball with getting posts deleted

 

Nah, I've been on holiday with friends, family and loved ones... I've been working, buying new audio equipment, preparing for a surgery and a 2-3 week recovery time, finishing Goliath season 3, planning adventures, paying off my mortgage and setting new track records. Just boring boiler plate stuff. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[m17xr2b]

Jarek,

 

Do you have a count of how many times LH Labs missed a deadline? Do you have a count of how many variations of gear haven't materialised in even a single unit? I'm thinking the power amp things, the daps etc. 

Do you have a a count of how many fake boards Larry has photographed himself with and posted only to see it was an earier revision? 

 

LH labs have faked so many statements I don't trust anything you say as long as you think we're stupid and can't see for ourselves the farse we've been put through for the past 6 years. 

 

 

The above is 100% faked by me as were all the updates for the past 5 years faked by LH Labs and associates. 

 

I'm not angry because of the the failed campaign, I could have delt with it, I'm angry because you asshats took 300$ more from me a year later after the campaing for an upgrade and would have done so again a year later when I was pondering upgrading to the ViDac even though inside everyone knew nothing was moving and was a pure scam.  

 

LH Labs wouldn't be liable just for stealing the initial millions, what they did after, requesting additional funds years after the indiegogo campaings when they knew it's over was the true scumbag move and why they should be jailed.  

[stuck limo]

3 hours ago, m17xr2b said:

 

 

The above is 100% faked by me

 

 

LOL, wow, you're very good at that. Better than me! My photoshop skills involve the grand sum of screenshots and "paste" and "snip" and "draw" in Paint. It's really quite bad! (I'm not very artistic, that's why I could never be a 3D modeler for Pixar)

 

(seriously, tho, if you're worried about it being a fake, PM Axel yourself)

[Nzboot]

Jarek really it might be best for you not to post anything unless it is directly about LHL.

I for one don’t care your feelings are hurt and sick of reading your cry’s.

My back pocket hurts.

You have lied to me via email so really you have no credibility to me.

[Currawong]

While I cannot speak for anything Jarek has done regarding anything else, I confirmed last night, and I can say for absolutely certain that the only reason posts were deleted in that thread on HF were due to a strict policy of not allowing discussion of legal matters.   While I might wish that they'd relax that policy in this instance, they wont.