Light Harmonic (LH Labs). Scam? USD$6 million not delivered since 2014

[Samuel T Cogley]

On 1/11/2020 at 8:41 PM, agisthos said:

In some way I feel a bit sorry for Larry Ho. Yes he was a part owner of LHLabs, but he was just the designer. It was Gavin Fish who was running the day to day operations of LHLabs and who burned through all the money with his poor business competency. So if you want to attack someone for losing your money, he bears far more responsibility than Larry.

 

Because Larry decided to try and save the LHlabs name, and deliver the product in a piecemeal fashion with whatever extra funds he makes from Light Harmonic, it has kept him as a focal point for the attacks, while Gavin has gotten out of it scott free.

 

I don't disagree about Gavin, but Larry's lack of transparency to date has not helped his image.  That lack of transparency makes people assume the worst.  Generally speaking, Larry's proxies (like Jarek) have not done well in explaining "Larry's side of the story".

 

Larry's apparent shyness with regards to people who are still waiting for product has made and continues to make the name Light Harmonic rather radioactive IMHO.  The passage of time alone with no concrete goals of order fulfillment is de facto evidence of malfeasance.

[Jud]

17 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

I don't disagree about Gavin, but Larry's lack of transparency to date has not helped his image.  That lack of transparency makes people assume the worst.  Generally speaking, Larry's proxies (like Jarek) have not done well in explaining "Larry's side of the story".

 

Larry's apparent shyness with regards to people who are still waiting for product has made and continues to make the name Light Harmonic rather radioactive IMHO.  The passage of time alone with no concrete goals of order fulfillment is de facto evidence of malfeasance.

 

Gavin is conveniently blamed now for actions that garnered him a promotion when he was working for LH.

[Blake]

On 1/11/2020 at 9:41 PM, agisthos said:

In some way I feel a bit sorry for Larry Ho. Yes he was a part owner of LHLabs, but he was just the designer.

 

Who are the other owners?

 

He definitely was not "just the designer".  He was the founder and CEO.

 

 

[Jud]

2 minutes ago, Blake said:

 

Who were the other owners?

 

I have the same question as Blake.

 

This is the Internet era, where people leave digital tracks. During the time LH was "only the designer," he gave at least one talk at an international business seminar, where the speaker bio presented him as someone accomplished in business.

[stuck limo]

On 1/10/2020 at 9:37 PM, jlariviere said:

Have any of you used the IEM-X headphones with other devices?  Since we don't have our Wave players, I was thinking about getting the FiiO M11.  I ran across an adapter on amazon that appears to convert the LH Labs' 3.5mm balanced IEM-X to a 4.4 balanced that would then work with the M11.  
https://www.amazon.com/Geekria-Balanced-Gold-Plated-NW-ZX300A-TA-ZH1ES/dp/B075165H2M/ 

Do you guys think that would work? 

 

(and any thoughts on the M11 or other recommendations would be appreciated).  

If I should post this in a different forum, let me know.

Jeremie 

 

That should work. You can always get a Mee Audio kit that does the same thing with the same plug too. 

[noshortcuts]

LHL Wave UPDATE #188: It’s like LHL just makes updates in order to add salt to the wounds of their investors – since there’s obviously no hope, much less any plan, about HOW anything will ever be manufactured much less delivered or refunded. This 2020 update is no more than another drawing-  after all these years! LHL's lack of an actual doable plan has eroded from the early days of fancy marketing talk (now understood as lies) to rare and minimal project updates (on this or that dead campaign). Only now they don't even pretend to have a plan (well last year they did claim a few Vi DACs and Source's would ship, but no one believed it because we know better by now. And guess what, nothing shipped). So why update? I've asked myself that question for at least a year.

[Cecil]

On 12/21/2019 at 12:12 PM, stuck limo said:

 

Per your request:

 

I have an update: The assembly test is good and worked. After Christmas/New Year's, the final assembly will take place and the first 3 backers will receive their new Vi DAC Tubes with newly designed chassis.

...

 

So Jarek "the first 3 backers" have now received their Vi DAC Tubes?

[OutSider]

8 hours ago, noshortcuts said:

LHL Wave UPDATE #188: It’s like LHL just makes updates in order to add salt to the wounds of their investors – since there’s obviously no hope, much less any plan, about HOW anything will ever be manufactured much less delivered or refunded. This 2020 update is no more than another drawing-  after all these years! LHL's lack of an actual doable plan has eroded from the early days of fancy marketing talk (now understood as lies) to rare and minimal project updates (on this or that dead campaign). Only now they don't even pretend to have a plan (well last year they did claim a few Vi DACs and Source's would ship, but no one believed it because we know better by now. And guess what, nothing shipped). So why update? I've asked myself that question for at least a year.

 

2 Source SE’s shipped. They claim more but only 2 can be confirmed.

 

Mines collecting dust since it can connect to the Pulse. No hope of a firmware upgrade, it’s been a year since I’ve requested one.

[OutSider]

On 1/11/2020 at 8:41 PM, agisthos said:

In some way I feel a bit sorry for Larry Ho. Yes he was a part owner of LHLabs, but he was just the designer. It was Gavin Fish who was running the day to day operations of LHLabs and who burned through all the money with his poor business competency. So if you want to attack someone for losing your money, he bears far more responsibility than Larry.

 

Because Larry decided to try and save the LHlabs name, and deliver the product in a piecemeal fashion with whatever extra funds he makes from Light Harmonic, it has kept him as a focal point for the attacks, while Gavin has gotten out of it scott free.

 

Gavin hasn’t been a part of this farce for many years now so quit making excuses for Larry. The last 5 years if not longer has been all him. Larry deserves all the hate and anger he gets. He’s no innocent flower. 
Larry doesn’t deserve anyone’s sympathy 

[OutSider]

About time LHL is finally opening up the exchange program to everyone. 
you can now trade in your wasted funds on LHL gear towards atm the Stella or th Mera. Not sure why the Oscar XXI’s aren’t up there.

 I’m so glad I did this when I had the chance.

 

Since it’s open to all I’m assuming I’m allowed to talk about it now, and if not opps to late

[marflao]

Lol...i especially like this sentence:

 

"If your dollar contributions are still more than the earphones' worth, you will still have credit to be used in the future for exchanges."

 

Will there be any future for LHL/LH?

 

EDIT:

"Offers" were communicated via the "Pulse Analog Audio Components"- and the "Geek Pulse DAC: High-Rez Desktop DAC System" campaign updates.

 

For those who still wait for a ViDac, Wave, Source this offer is not valid. 

[erniejade]

https://support.lhlabs.com/support/solutions/articles/13000071394

I if anyone wants the link.   I take it as they developed headphones costing 1k with our money instead of delivering the DAC;s we supposedly help design and ordered.  Kind of a slap in the face in my opinion.  

[jsiegel]

4 hours ago, OutSider said:

About time LHL is finally opening up the exchange program to everyone. 
you can now trade in your wasted funds on LHL gear towards atm the Stella or th Mera. Not sure why the Oscar XXI’s aren’t up there.

 I’m so glad I did this when I had the chance.

 

Since it’s open to all I’m assuming I’m allowed to talk about it now, and if not opps to late

So we can trade non existent product for iems that no one has heard and seems very highly priced compared to campfire audio??

[OutSider]

22 minutes ago, jsiegel said:

So we can trade non existent product for iems that no one has heard and seems very highly priced compared to campfire audio??

 

 

I haven't heard the Stella or the Mera but I have the Oscar's and they do sound very good. Not $5200 good but still they are better then my Aeon Closed. 

 

Look at it this way, wait for stuff you'll likely never see or exchange it for some overpriced IEM's. At the very least you're getting them 30% off.

 

It's better then nothing.  

[Lobbster]

Yeah but, can I trade my Wave, S100 Amp and a Station X for some Campfire Stella's ?

 

I wonder how they'll sound on my HiBy R6...

 

I'm holding out!

[OutSider]

9 minutes ago, Lobbster said:

Yeah but, can I trade my Wave, S100 Amp and a Station X for some Campfire Stella's ?

 

I wonder how they'll sound on my HiBy R6...

 

I'm holding out!

Should be able to trade in anything you’re owed 

[charlesphoto]

I had to have a talk with my ten year old last night about why I wouldn't let him buy into this 'free' mystery box scam going on (don't ask, it's a YouTube thing). I guess maybe I'll have to relate the LH Labs story to him so as to show how adults can fall for this kind of too good to be true crap as well.  I have no skin in this, but find it fascinating and feel for those duped. 

[ForSure]

I just found out the whole lawsuit thing........

 

I am out $2K in USD for the Pulse DAC.  I lived in the United States.  Am I too late to join the "class action"?

[Lobbster]

19 minutes ago, OutSider said:

Should be able to trade in anything you’re owed 

I'll have to take a closer look, it seemed it was for those who didn't get their Pulse. 

[Jud]

1 hour ago, jsiegel said:

So we can trade non existent product for iems that no one has heard and seems very highly priced compared to campfire audio??

 

That of course is why companies do these exchange programs. The value set on the item is always more than it cost to produce, and if any of these are sitting around unsold in inventory, the effective additional cost is almost nothing.

 

Which doesn't negate the value to the consumer of at least getting something rather than nothing.

[AgentXXL]

1 hour ago, Lobbster said:

I'll have to take a closer look, it seemed it was for those who didn't get their Pulse. 

I received emails from both the Pulse DAC and the Analog HPA campaigns offering this trade-in. I don't want or need new IEMs when I don't have the Wave, Source or Pulse DAC to use them with. And my over $6K US in owed gear means even if I went for the Stella, I'd still be owed over $5K.

 

As someone who's now on disability, I can't afford to purchase new amps/players like I thought I was when working and able to pay for perks during the campaigns. I wish Larry would just straight out offer refunds. At least then I could use some of the money to buy current products from respected manufacturers.

 

Also note that they list the Stella's at $1299 US according to the offer sent to those eligible. But on the website, even with international shipping they list for $1079 US. So they're even trying to cheat us out of an additional $220. EDIT: Just re-read the offer and saw that we get them for 30% off MSRP, but they're still quoting a MSRP that's higher than what's listed on the website. This is beyond ridiculous and I hope Larry gets all the bad karma he deserves.

 

[stuck limo]

9 hours ago, AgentXXL said:

Also note that they list the Stella's at $1299 US according to the offer sent to those eligible. But on the website, even with international shipping they list for $1079 US. So they're even trying to cheat us out of an additional $220. EDIT: Just re-read the offer and saw that we get them for 30% off MSRP, but they're still quoting a MSRP that's higher than what's listed on the website. This is beyond ridiculous and I hope Larry gets all the bad karma he deserves.

 

 

Thanks for bringing that to our attention. When you click on the "Pay Now" it brings up the correct price($1,299), so there's obviously a disconnect between our site (old promotion) and PayPal (correct, normal) price. We're working on fixing that ASAP as well as some other website issues. 

[Nzboot]

Jarek for am unpaid non employ you are all over this.

Tell me what is your job title and what does it entail?

[Mike Rubin]

14 hours ago, stuck limo said:

 

Thanks for bringing that to our attention. When you click on the "Pay Now" it brings up the correct price($1,299), so there's obviously a disconnect between our site (old promotion) and PayPal (correct, normal) price. We're working on fixing that ASAP as well as some other website issues. 

Jarek, hi.  As long as we have you on the line and are talking about the Pulse, what are the chances that we will get an ASIO driver that works in Windows 10?  My support ticket remains unaddressed.

[stuck limo]

5 hours ago, Mike Rubin said:

Jarek, hi.  As long as we have you on the line and are talking about the Pulse, what are the chances that we will get an ASIO driver that works in Windows 10?  My support ticket remains unaddressed.

There are no plans at this time for that driver.