Light Harmonic (LH Labs). Scam? USD$6 million not delivered since 2014

[The Computer Audiophile]

2 minutes ago, Blake said:

 

IGG imposes terms of service on the Campaign Owner (in this case LH Labs).  LH Labs breached pretty much every term of service.  LH Labs and Larry Ho used IGG as a vehicle to steal funds from contributors:

 

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Interesting. It isn't like he was inventing a perpetual motion machine and failed. These are audio "gadgets" that just needed assembly. 

[Jud]

13 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Interesting. It isn't like he was inventing a perpetual motion machine and failed. These are audio "gadgets" that just needed assembly. 

 

Yep - over at Head-Fi they're talking about another manufacturer having brought 11 or 21 (forget which, or maybe another number) of DAPs onto the market in the time span during which not so much as a single working prototype of the Geek Wave has been produced.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Just now, Jud said:

 

Yep - over at Head-Fi they're talking about another manufacturer having brought 11 or 21 (forget which, or maybe another number) of DAPs onto the market in the time span during which not so much as a single working prototype of the Geek Wave has been produced.

WOW

[Blake]

[Jud]

36 minutes ago, Blake said:

 

Ho Ho Ho.

[jsiegel]

16 hours ago, Jud said:

 

Yep - over at Head-Fi they're talking about another manufacturer having brought 11 or 21 (forget which, or maybe another number) of DAPs onto the market in the time span during which not so much as a single working prototype of the Geek Wave has been produced.

Fiio - 18 (that is just portable players like wave not Amps, dac amps or IEM's

A&K - 26 players - if you count the various materials for cases (not colors), i think they might make a couple other products.

But who is counting - Larry has only been working on the Wave since 2014, so it obviously will bt the Ultimate Player and there will be no need for either of these guys to build another one.  They should quit while they are ahead!

 

https://www.fiio.com/supports

https://www.astellnkern.com/eng/content/shop/allProduct_grid.asp

 

 

[germay0653]

17 hours ago, Jud said:

 

Ho Ho Ho.

'Tis the season, again and again and again and again and again!

[Jud]

11 minutes ago, germay0653 said:

'Tis the season, again and again and again and again and again!

If Mr. Ho sees his shadow, does Groundhog Day last another 5 years?

[Superdad]

I'm sorry, while like the rest of you I have much distain for LH Labs and how they have fleeced so many and not delivered on promises, I think it is inappropriate to post photographs of people. Just seems like a line we need not cross. I can not think of a reason to go down to that level. Larry Ho can live with his own shame--and we can shame his company--without photos.

Just my $0.02

[Blake]

45 minutes ago, Superdad said:

I'm sorry, while like the rest of you I have much distain for LH Labs and how they have fleeced so many and not delivered on promises, I think it is inappropriate to post photographs of people. Just seems like a line we need not cross. I can not think of a reason to go down to that level. Larry Ho can live with his own shame--and we can shame his company--without photos.

Just my $0.02

 

Seriously?  The guy steals millions with no shame and you are upset about posting his pic?!  

 

He shouldn't get to hide behind some corporate veil.  LH Labs is Larry Ho.  Larry took our money.  Steal money and there are consequences.

 

[John Dyson]

This problem makes me wonder -- was this an overreach by an overly enthusiastic person who didn't realize what they were getting into, or was this a scam from day 1?

I can understand getting in over ones head, and development costs being overwhelming, but a person should not even THINK about selling something without the project being almost ready AT LEAST.   My own values say -- either work on an hourly basis, project completion basis or as a complete product that is already in manufacturing (hopefully recieving working units.)

 

Encouraging customers to double as investors is a dangerous game.  There is no equity as a customer -- esp if there is no contract.  The risk is very high for the consumer, and also the risk of reputation is high for the developer/seller.

 

As someone who has REALLY developed things in the past, and had both successful and unsuccessful projects -- in one case, the failing was my own health -- I could never try to pre-sell something that I don't have in-hand, ready for production, special components already in-hand.  TOO OFTEN, there need to be design changes, and will change the eventual specifications.  Also, there is the issue of component availability, as sometimes the component manufacturers can cause real problems.  Small manufacturers should purchase a fairly large supply of necessary and/or uncommon components for a big part of the product lifetime.  Some parts just 'disappear' pooft...

 

I just don't get it, how this situation should happen...   Apparently someone is a better salesman than product developer...  (Note that I didn't use the term 'engineer' for 'product developer  -- because being just an Electronics Engineer alone is NOT enough to produce a complex manufactured product -- unless that person can stay awake 48Hrs/day, and understands pacakging and a few other disicplines like FCC/EMC compliance  :-)).   I don't know the rules today, but I have been involved in several small company, small volume (<1k) products that still needed all of the regulatory compliance issues resolved.  Have things changed?

 

 

John

 

[kumakuma]

5 minutes ago, Blake said:

 

Seriously?  The guy steals millions with no shame and you are upset about posting his pic?!  

 

He shouldn't get to hide behind some corporate veil.  LH Labs is Larry Ho.  Larry took our money.  Steal money and there are consequences.

 

 

A quick Google image search for "Larry Ho Light Harmonic" reveals numerous images of his face including his own LinkedIn page and video interviews on YouTube.

[kumakuma]

12 minutes ago, John Dyson said:

This problem makes me wonder -- was this an overreach by an overly enthusiastic person who didn't realize what they were getting into, or was this a scam from day 1?

 

My gut says the former. 

 

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor

[Samuel T Cogley]

7 minutes ago, John Dyson said:

This problem makes me wonder -- was this an overreach by an overly enthusiastic person who didn't realize what they were getting into, or was this a scam from day 1?

 

I don't think it was a scam from day 1.  Many people have Geek Pulse DACs and some even like them.  🙂

 

I think things started going off the rails with the "perks".  From what I can see, there was a huge disconnect between the technical feasibility of changing DAC designs daily and actually transforming that chaos into DAC production in the factory.

 

Gavin Fish bailed and Larry was left holding the bag.  We know the rest.

[stuck limo]

59 minutes ago, Superdad said:

I'm sorry, while like the rest of you I have much distain for LH Labs and how they have fleeced so many and not delivered on promises, I think it is inappropriate to post photographs of people. Just seems like a line we need not cross. I can not think of a reason to go down to that level. Larry Ho can live with his own shame--and we can shame his company--without photos.

Just my $0.02

 

15 minutes ago, Blake said:

 

Seriously?  The guy steals millions with no shame and you are upset about posting his pic?!  

 

He shouldn't get to hide behind some corporate veil.  LH Labs is Larry Ho.  Larry took our money.  Steal money and there are consequences.

 

 

5 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

A quick Google image search for "Larry Ho Light Harmonic" reveals numerous images of his face including his own LinkedIn page and video interviews on YouTube.

 

The crowd turns....

[Superdad]

7 minutes ago, stuck limo said:

The crowd turns....

 

Wow. Who here thinks Jarek (who is one and the same person as @stuck limo and @LHCommSquad) should be allowed to post in this thread as @stuck limo?

Also, why is there an @stuck limo and a separate user name @stuck_limo? 

Do we really have one person with 3 member names here? @The Computer Audiophile, you might want to check this out. 

[stuck limo]

9 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

Also, why is there an @stuck limo and a separate user name @stuck_limo? 

Do we really have one person with 3 member names here? @The Computer Audiophile, you might want to check this out. 

 

Was wondering that too. honestly. Definitely only want one. Probably a mistake on my part back in the day.

[The Computer Audiophile]

both stuck accounts now merged.

 

 

[bernardperu]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

I'm sorry, while like the rest of you I have much distain for LH Labs and how they have fleeced so many and not delivered on promises, I think it is inappropriate to post photographs of people. Just seems like a line we need not cross. I can not think of a reason to go down to that level. Larry Ho can live with his own shame--and we can shame his company--without photos.

Just my $0.02

 

I can see where you are coming from. Perhaps we could switch to "funny memes of Larry Ho." Humor is powerful. It is customary to make fun of those who willingly become public figures. Larry chose to go public by defrauding so many. 

 

By the way, memes of Larry or anything funny that portrays him would be a very powerful marketing tool in order to attract his attention and, hopefully, turn him into a pariah of the hi-fi community. 

 

 

 

[tmtomh]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

both stuck accounts now merged.

 

 

 

Any chance of merging the Stuck Limo and LHCommSquad accounts since they are the same person?

[Beefalo]

2 hours ago, stuck limo said:

 

 

 

The crowd turns....

Yep, not a troll at all.

[Jud]

3 hours ago, John Dyson said:

This problem makes me wonder -- was this an overreach by an overly enthusiastic person who didn't realize what they were getting into, or was this a scam from day 1?

I can understand getting in over ones head, and development costs being overwhelming, but a person should not even THINK about selling something without the project being almost ready AT LEAST.   My own values say -- either work on an hourly basis, project completion basis or as a complete product that is already in manufacturing (hopefully recieving working units.)

 

Encouraging customers to double as investors is a dangerous game.  There is no equity as a customer -- esp if there is no contract.  The risk is very high for the consumer, and also the risk of reputation is high for the developer/seller.

 

As someone who has REALLY developed things in the past, and had both successful and unsuccessful projects -- in one case, the failing was my own health -- I could never try to pre-sell something that I don't have in-hand, ready for production, special components already in-hand.  TOO OFTEN, there need to be design changes, and will change the eventual specifications.  Also, there is the issue of component availability, as sometimes the component manufacturers can cause real problems.  Small manufacturers should purchase a fairly large supply of necessary and/or uncommon components for a big part of the product lifetime.  Some parts just 'disappear' pooft...

 

I just don't get it, how this situation should happen...   Apparently someone is a better salesman than product developer...  (Note that I didn't use the term 'engineer' for 'product developer  -- because being just an Electronics Engineer alone is NOT enough to produce a complex manufactured product -- unless that person can stay awake 48Hrs/day, and understands pacakging and a few other disicplines like FCC/EMC compliance  :-)).   I don't know the rules today, but I have been involved in several small company, small volume (<1k) products that still needed all of the regulatory compliance issues resolved.  Have things changed?

 

 

John

 

 

3 hours ago, kumakuma said:

 

My gut says the former. 

 

"Never attribute to malice that which can be adequately explained by stupidity."

 

Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon's_razor

 

People were then asked to pay *shipping costs* for the supposedly imminently available products they had already paid for, and which were never built, much less shipped.

[kumakuma]

2 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

 

People were then asked to pay *shipping costs* for the supposedly imminently available products they had already paid for, and which were never built, much less shipped.

 

😭

[The Computer Audiophile]

19 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

 

People were then asked to pay *shipping costs* for the supposedly imminently available products they had already paid for, and which were never built, much less shipped.

Amazing.

[Jud]

1 minute ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Amazing.

 

I have other words for it, but yes, that too.