MQA is Vaporware

[Albrecht]

1 hour ago, crenca said:

 

Yea he is not making sense.  Perhaps he does not actually use Tidal or Qobuz.

You don't have to use it to know it.... Read closer....

[crenca]

38 minutes ago, Albrecht said:

You don't have to use it to know it.... Read closer....

 

No matter how hard you squint at your words, reality is different.  Streaming, on the whole, appears to be at diversifying effect and not a 'commoditization' as you say.  Plenty of new music right now, and the services makes it easier to find the ever before...

[Albrecht]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

I have to disagree 100%.

 

We can't purchase CDs because people elected to stop buying them.

Streaming companies are serving the desires of consumers. 

 

The artists that I know who went into music to make money all suck. The artist that I know who went into music because they are creative, song writers, musicians, etc... are good. I don't care if the guys who went into it to make money are no longer doing it. I can do without another KISS album. 

 

Nothing is making bands "not a thing" other than the people who have other things to do. 

 

You're blaming the man rather than people's personal responsibility for things you don't like. 

 

""We can't purchase CDs because people elected to stop buying them."

 

That's a bit too simplistic. People stopped buying them because their value sunk, & because of their ridiculous cost. Prices skyrocketed to $20+ for a CD that cost the label less than $.25 to produce. When CDs first came out, - it cost about $3 to manufacture a CD: artists typically were splitting less than $1 dollar on their work per every CD sold. With unauthorized re-distribution and creation of .mp3 facsimiles (or samples) of the music, - the labels colluded again and used their judicial system(s) to attack consumers and dropped the amount of artists, - keeping only the artists that were already big money winners, and/or were safe bets on making a big ROI.

Labels were dragged kicking and screaming into streaming, - and on the way (down) they made sure that they are going to come out winners.

This is somewhat elementary when one researches through several very good articles by folks such as Courtney Love, Frank Zappa, Geoff Barrow, - etc.

""You're blaming the man rather than people's personal responsibility for things you don't like. ""

That's also a bit simplistic. I am blaming the culture that allows for an exploitative industry to diminish what once was a vibrant art form.

I am placing the blame where it belongs: yes, - the recording industry was always grossly exploitative, - but it really was turned up to 11 when the explosion happened: consumer rebellion. If the Record Labels didn't attack 13 year old girls in Walnut Creek California, - we'd very likely have more variety and because of it, - better music. If the record labels reduced their prices to $8 per CD, and included two free .mp3 downloads with a link with every CD purchase.....things would be much different today...

 

Herb Albert took a "chance" on Deep Purple, - telling them that it wouldn't have been possible without the success of the Carpenters.

 

 

[Albrecht]

1 minute ago, crenca said:

 

No matter how hard you squint at your words, reality is different.  Streaming, on the whole, appears to be at diversifying effect and not a 'commoditization' as you say.  Plenty of new music right now, and the services makes it easier to find the ever before...

List out 10 new unique music acts found on Tidal that one can't find anywhere else...........

[The Computer Audiophile]

6 minutes ago, Albrecht said:

""We can't purchase CDs because people elected to stop buying them."

 

That's a bit too simplistic. People stopped buying them because their value sunk, & because of their ridiculous cost. Prices skyrocketed to $20+ for a CD that cost the label less than $.25 to produce. When CDs first came out, - it cost about $3 to manufacture a CD: artists typically were splitting less than $1 dollar on their work per every CD sold. With unauthorized re-distribution and creation of .mp3 facsimiles (or samples) of the music, - the labels colluded again and used their judicial system(s) to attack consumers and dropped the amount of artists, - keeping only the artists that were already big money winners, and/or were safe bets on making a big ROI.

Labels were dragged kicking and screaming into streaming, - and on the way (down) they made sure that they are going to come out winners.

This is somewhat elementary when one researches through several very good articles by folks such as Courtney Love, Frank Zappa, Geoff Barrow, - etc.

""You're blaming the man rather than people's personal responsibility for things you don't like. ""

That's also a bit simplistic. I am blaming the culture that allows for an exploitative industry to diminish what once was a vibrant art form.

I am placing the blame where it belongs: yes, - the recording industry was always grossly exploitative, - but it really was turned up to 11 when the explosion happened: consumer rebellion. If the Record Labels didn't attack 13 year old girls in Walnut Creek California, - we'd very likely have more variety and because of it, - better music. If the record labels reduced their prices to $8 per CD, and included two free .mp3 downloads with a link with every CD purchase.....things would be much different today...

 

Herb Albert took a "chance" on Deep Purple, - telling them that it wouldn't have been possible without the success of the Carpenters.

 

 

 

You lost me, but that's OK. 

 

 

[crenca]

26 minutes ago, Albrecht said:

List out 10 new unique music acts found on Tidal that one can't find anywhere else...........

 

Again you're not making any sense.  That's like asking someone to "list unique musical acts on FM radio not found anywhere else" 20 years ago.  Streaming services, FM radio and I like are just delivery mechanisms to the consumer...

[asdf1000]

On 8/8/2019 at 9:02 AM, asdf1000 said:

We shall see. If Amazon makes the real first move, all theories discussed on the golf course with golfing buddies go out the window....

 @Rt66indierock

 

Did your golfing buddies see this Amazon thing coming?

 

With Amazon making the first move, we now wait for Spotify and Apple.

 

[mansr]

When I attend concerts, there are always CDs for sale, often just released, usually for £10. People seem to be buying them too.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi @John_Atkinson Any chance you can provide us a track of yours pre and post MQA processing? I figure that because you own the rights this shouldn’t be like pulling teeth. 

[esldude]

3 hours ago, Albrecht said:

I hear what you're saying here....

But, - that's a bit simplistic and doesn't work so well in practice....

That Fascist/Corporate Socialist exploitation of both the consumer & artists, - forces the death of all other models. When radio payola hit, - the combined "industry" forced the Eagles down everyone's throat and prevented others from entering the space. This infliction made people actually LIKE the Eagles:  yuckko......  In short, - we already cannot buy CeeDees. People don't even start bands anymore, - it's not a "thing."

Tidal isn't solely responsible for this of course. But it's 1 important component in the death of creative music. Of course US Culture is largely fine with this, - commoditizing everything.... 

Tidal is putting CDs & K-Disk out of business, - Sites like BandCamp may be next.

Thanks to you, I now know I like the Eagles because of payola and being forced by the industry.  I was so bamboozled I went to their concerts and enjoyed it.  If only I had known that was wrong. 

 

Should I throw my Eagle's CD's in the trash?  Wouldn't want to give them away as that might force someone else to like and enjoy them.   Please provide me with an answer promptly.  I'm very uncomfortable with the Eagles music in my home now.  

[Albrecht]

35 minutes ago, crenca said:

 

Again you're not making any sense.  That's like asking someone to "list unique musical acts on FM radio not found anywhere else" 20 years ago.  Streaming services, FM radio and I like are just delivery mechanisms to the consumer...

They are distribution channels owned by the labels, - in the same sense that record stores were consignment shops for the labels.

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

50 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Hi @John_Atkinson Any chance you can provide us a track of yours pre and post MQA processing? I figure that because you own the rights this shouldn’t be like pulling teeth. 

I believe he has been asked about that numerous times. Crickets. 🙄

[Ishmael Slapowitz]

3 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

I'm listening to new bands all the time.

50% of music I listen to is new music, mostly found on Bandcamp.

[Ralf11]

2 hours ago, Albrecht said:

You don't have to use it to know it.... Read closer....

 

To use, use, use it

Is to know, know, know it

 

And you do ...

 

- Phil Spectrum, as channeled by Amy Winehouse

 

[Rt66indierock]

1 hour ago, asdf1000 said:

 @Rt66indierock

 

Did your golfing buddies see this Amazon thing coming?

 

With Amazon making the first move, we now wait for Spotify and Apple.

 

 

They did. Streaming CD quality makes a lot of sense. But did you notice the Logo and the word music? That means original sources 20/48 or greater. That isn't much music. 

 

Spotify is standing pat for now. 

 

And Apple Digital Masters is a big yawn in studios. 

[Rt66indierock]

24 minutes ago, Ishmael Slapowitz said:

50% of music I listen to is new music, mostly found on Bandcamp.

 

In my case there is a great coffee shop about three blocks from my office. Sunday night I'll hear some new music "Mean Mary" Mary James.

[asdf1000]

28 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

And Apple Digital Masters is a big yawn in studios. 

 

Of course it is... Amazon is official today. I suspect this new announcement may change things, as discussed months ago... 😉

 

For both Spotify and Apple.

 

As hinted months ago, once one of the big players makes the first move, any of your past theories go out the window...

 

 

28 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

They did.

 

Interesting. This isn’t the impression you gave in any of your posts when discussing these Amazon “rumours” months ago...

 

 

[crenca]

I am with @Rt66indierockon this, in that why would the Spotify, Pandora, Apple, and the like chase Amazon even with 16/44, let alone real "Hi Res".  What's the business case?  What's the marketing or even just "keep up with the Jones checkbox" case?  the 99% (really, 99.9%) are happy with <200 kpbs mp3/aac, and won't even pay for 320.  

 

I suppose if the numbers from Amazon, assuming they release ones that truly differentiate actual market share gained by customers who specifically choose >200 kpbs mp3, will tell.

 

Speaking for myself, I hope the Amazon 16/44 catalog rivals Tidal's and that it gets Roon integration (since Roon is my frontend now at least 80% of the time).  Short of that I don't see it for me...for now...

[Rt66indierock]

2 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

 

Of course it is... Amazon is official today. I suspect this new announcement may change things, as discussed months ago... 😉

 

For both Spotify and Apple.

 

As hinted months ago, once one of the big players makes the first move, any of your past theories go out the window...

 

 

 

Interesting. This isn’t the impression you gave in any of your posts when discussing these Amazon “rumours” months ago...

 

 

 

I'm all for CD quality streaming but my hi res analysis is good. There isn't that much actual hi res to sell you. 

 

Spotify has marketing research that says people aren't interested in hi-res or CD quality streaming.

 

And of course the eternal question are Apple Digital Masters native resolution or just quality control

[Rt66indierock]

4 minutes ago, crenca said:

I am with @Rt66indierockon this, in that why would the Spotify, Pandora, Apple, and the like chase Amazon even with 16/44, let alone real "Hi Res".  What's the business case?  What's the marketing or even just "keep up with the Jones checkbox" case?  the 99% (really, 99.9%) are happy with <200 kpbs mp3/aac, and won't even pay for 320.  

 

I suppose if the numbers from Amazon, assuming they release ones that truly differentiate actual market share gained by customers who specifically choose >200 kpbs mp3, will tell.

 

Speaking for myself, I hope the Amazon 16/44 catalog rivals Tidal's and that it gets Roon integration (since Roon is my frontend now at least 80% of the time).  Short of that I don't see it for me...for now...

 

Thanks one of the problems is how many audiophiles have amps quiet enough to hear 17-18 bits at low volumes? 

 

Amazon has 50 million tracks at CD quality that should rival Tidal's.

[Gus141]

2 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Thanks one of the problems is how many audiophiles have amps quiet enough to hear 17-18 bits at low volumes? 

 

Amazon has 50 million tracks at CD quality that should rival Tidal's.

And those two points I think work together: most of us here (not your typical Spotify user) want no lower than CD quality; and, if it happens that there is a higher-res version, then stream that instead please. So, a huge CD-quality catalog with a “pretty good” high-res (or “Ultra HD” in this case) catalog, makes for a compelling choice over an MQA-based service (TIDAL) or a limited catalog service (US-beta Qobuz). 

[asdf1000]

2 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

Spotify has marketing research that says people aren't interested in hi-res or CD quality streaming.

 

It’s old research. Now that Amazon have made the first move, they will be watching closely.

 

Od market research goes out the window once one of the big dogs makes the first move...

 

Anyway it’s obvious from all your past posts your golfing buddies missed this Amazon thing! Or they just didn’t tell you .

 

2 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

There isn't that much actual hi res to sell you. 

 

You seem to think this is a fixed number and not growing. The fact is the number continues to grow... Slowly but growing....

 

[esldude]

I'm with Rt66indierock here.  Hires has been available or been around in a few different forms including on discs.  There is no market for it of any size.  I would like to see more CD quality available, but for more than that you just can't stir up any interest.  

[firedog]

10 hours ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

Still no reason to stop using or supporting a service. I use Qobuz, Tidal, and Amazon HD. In the odd chance they don't have something I want I buy it. No reason to buy everything just incase it disappears. I don't need total control, I just need access. If it's cut off, I'll buy. 

Good idea in theory, I don't think many people are going to pay for multiple hi-res streaming services. Of course maybe some people can write it off as a business expense? 😁

[FredericV]

8 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

Thanks one of the problems is how many audiophiles have amps quiet enough to hear 17-18 bits at low volumes?

Walk to any speaker's tweeter and listen for noise. When you replace the amp with an amp having a lower noise floor, this audible noise should be lower. For some ultra high gain horn speakers, this may be a decision criterium, as the high gain makes this noise cary further away.

But even with the amp where you have tweeter noise when being very close, once you walk away, that noise is gone. On the listener's sweet spot, that noise is also gone.

So in an actual system, can you hear the difference between amp with -100, -110 and -130dB noise floor?